2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat?

[Wholin1]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat?

Union has nothing to apologize for and I do not consider this to be "cutting corners". If it were up to me I would just offer full scholarships. My point with all of this was not to discuss the nuances of the finances surrounding recruiting, but rather to make the point that, in my opinion, Union is now in a position to take the program up a notch by being able to compete for a higher level of recruit. In other words, whereas in the past Union was at the bottom of the ECAC and with no national presence, Union is now consistently at the top of the ECAC and gaining a well known presence nationally. Therefore, they should take advantage of this by going after better talent. In the end talent is what wins at the highest levels.

I agree but unfortunately the scholar"ship" has sailed for D-3 institutions such as Union. Upgrading talent is never a bad thing as long as it comes with the mindset to match.

 

[Dutchman]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat?

Good discussion around draft picks and talent and winning and sustainability. Here is what todays ECAC looks like (College Hockey News)

ECAC TEAM - # of NHL Draft Picks
Harvard 8
Cornell 7
Yale 5
QU 4
Clarkson 3
Union 1
Colgate 1
Brown 1
RPI 1
Princeton 0
St. Lawrence 0
Dartmouth 0

SAMPLE FROM THOSE "OTHER" LEAGUES
Denver 8
Michigan 12
Minn Duluth 7
St. Cloud 5
Ferris State 0
N. Dakota 15
Minnesota 14
Wisconsin 9
Boston College 10
NE 4
BU 7

There is something to be said about raw talent. What you do with that talent is something else. I personally believe that Harvard has the most "raw talent" in the ECAC. Their team is very young. They are like Cornell and Yale and they just suck up talent, year to year. No hockey player in their right mind would pass up going to one of these prestige schools, if they could get in. Harvard has tied QU and Yale and beat New Hampshire who I have come to respect a lot more after watching them play. However, clealry on paper, given the number of draft picks, the rest of the ECAC should not be on the same page as, say, HE but if you look at the interconference play this year, while not a perfect measure, the leagues are about even (21-19-8). Colgate, with 1 Draft Pick, matched Minnesota with 14 Draft Picks. Go figure.

The key for us this year rested with the ability of the upperclassmen to carry the weight of the team on their shoulders while the coaches frantically worked to bring on line the freshman and for Colin to step up and fill some mighty big shoes. You just have to look at the last 5 games to see how that is progressing.

Still don't know how things will work out. Remember, Dartmouth was ranked, I believe #8 last year in early January. Was picked by some to finish 4th this year.

Win or loose, I am just very please to see these outstanding young men represent the school with such class.

 

[garnetfan]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat?

Some of my observations from my weekend at the Lake Whittemore at UNH, 1. Kudos to Kevin Goumas for defining Union hockey (see video from comment 632), to me he spoke from the head and heart after a hard fought weekend, 2. UNH could of just as easily swept both games or more likely had a split, some of the bounces went our way and I think Stevens made the difference.3. My hope is UNH learns from this weekend and gets to work, I like their team, and I wish them good luck in the future. 4. Union deserves to be ranked third, we are fearless and we adjust, don't give us an inch because we only need a half inch. Doing this one game at a time is the trick. 5. Bennett's goal was fabulous, from my vantage point saw him out of the corner of my eye barreling down the ice towards the goal receive the pass but since it happened so fast even from 20 feet away we couldn't figure how the puck went in, only the day after on the video highlights in slow mo could we see how spectacular it was. Since both the next two goals (Kelleher and Novak) were at the other end we didn't get a good look , but on video both were great goals with pin point passing. The type of goals scored showed how hard fought saturday night's game was for 3 exciting periods. THIS WAS SOME GREAT HOCKEY.

 

[SPSalum]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat?

The conversation about recruiting and upgrading talent strains one's credulity. My God, Union is on its way to its 5th 20+ win season with a recent Frozen Four appearance. Dutchman's stats tell it all; just look at Harvard! Union's formula works quite well, thank you. The Dutchmen are ranked ranked this week at #3...enough said.

 

[JakeMalloy]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat?

The conversation about recruiting and upgrading talent strains one's credulity. My God, Union is on its way to its 5th 20+ win season with a recent Frozen Four appearance. Dutchman's stats tell it all; just look at Harvard! Union's formula works quite well, thank you. The Dutchmen are ranked ranked this week at #3...enough said.

I agree that the last 5 years are a dream. But I also think that Union has been now for long enough, both in the Leaman era and now the Bennett era, to no longer consider it a fluke. It is also time, in my opinion, for the fans / alums to raise their level of expectation. The simple fact is this: take away the name of the school and simply look at the recent past and the current team and a real expectation for the program should be National Championship. Believing this the simply fact is the more talented players, the better. Again, in the past there was no option for Union to compete for the very top talent. Now there is - why not go for it?

By the way, if you think Coach B. wouldnt want to have the most talented players possible you are nuts. Why do you think Leaman left - ultimately, it is about being able to lure the best players you can. We need to start to try to do that at Union.

 

[garnetfan]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat?

I don't know that we are NOT going after the top talent, but what I do know is that his players play for him, go to the wall for him, and even now a national championship is not out of the picture. I think his coaching staff compliments him nicely and is VERY instrumental in keeping everybody on the right page.

 

[ADK11]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat?

IMO it would be a huge mistake for Union to change their recruiting philosophy and go after more “blue chippers”. The current recruiting landscape makes this a very difficult thing to do and maintain a consistently high level. In the last 10-15 years, the NHL and Major Juniors have increased their efforts in going after Americans and other college eligible recruits. MJ in particular is now targeting players that most likely would have gone NCAA before by offering educational stipends that can be used to pay for college or university. This makes MJ much more attractive to Americans and other college eligibles. Since MJ drafts players when they are 15-16 years old, this has meant that NCAAs have had to go after kids when they are 14-16. This is a very risky business and relies on players “keeping their word” since the commitments are only verbal and the MJ/NHL can still court them, not to mention that bigger fish in the NCAA can swoop in to get a player to change commitment (BTW this happened with Johnny Hockey). It is also very difficult to predict at such young ages which players will continue to develop. There are many that don’t and end up being 3rd-4th liners or worse. And if a player does pan out, they likely will only play for a year or two before going pro – not good for building team cohesion.

Without full ride athletic scholarships, Union would be at a severe disadvantage to schools like BC, Michigan, Minnesota, etc. who have much bigger reputations and budgets. Even the big programs have struggled to make this work recently, as the only safe way to do it is to “over recruit” and have a lot of players in the pipeline to hedge against players being lost or not panning out. This is not a place that Union wants to go. I think Hokydad can confirm that part of Union’s current recruiting success is that Bennett and company are “straight shooters” that don’t play games with whether and when they want a player to matriculate at Union and what their role on the team will likely be. The Vecchione situation is the perfect example of what can go wrong (from UNH’s perspective) and why Union should only go after top players when they know that the player is A) interested in Union, B) has the smarts to get in and do well academically, and C) is the type of unselfish hard working player (i.e. character) that fits the Union mold.

 

[Wholin1]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat?

ADK sums it up nicely and I am in accord (though I drive a Toyota ).

Also, I will visualize but not verbalize any NC talk and would prefer not to see it here, but that's just my preference, it's way too early and I'm too superstitious. Let's deal with this weekend and two teams with little to lose and much to gain and the potential to be very troublesome. Nothing is taken for granted. Union is no longer in stealth mode and is flying well above the radar. There's a big fat bullseye on our back and the boys need to keep that in mind. With our leadership and coaching staff, it would be very surprising and disappointing if they did otherwise.

 

[Dutchman]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat?

A little humility gentlemen .... lets just be thankful for this season and enjoy this very special team and their accompolishments thus far. They still have at least 4 ranked opponents and a few others that should be. They will all be coming after us "guns a balzing." We still have 12 more ECAC hills to climb and plant a flagg and its going to be ugly. One hill at a time, gentlemen. The next one is Harvard. I am pleased that we are able to be competitive in one of the very best conferences in College Hockey.

An athletic program, for it to be successful, has to "fit" the core values, beliefs, assumptions and goals of the instituition that supports it. In the Harkness era we saw what happened when the program was out of alignment with the core values of the College, its board of directors, faculty, administration, students, parents, athletic and non-athletic alumni, etc. It was a disaster and ended up staining the reputation of the school. There was another recent example of this misfit. Those of us who live in Massachusetts might know about the attempt by UMASS to move its football program to DI-A from DI-AA. The manner in which they attempted to accomplish this was counter to the core values of UMASS Amherst and how the community viewed itself and what it assumed were behavior norms for this part of the country. Another disaster. UMASS ate the remainder of a $800,000 contract and fired the coach. There are investigations, legal action by former players, etc. What a mess.

This program, as best as I can tell, seems to fit extremely well into the vision and core values that the Union community shares. Union is a very small, high academic, D-III school with an equally small athletic budget. If anyone finds any loose change, its probably going to go for some academic project. It is, next to Colorado College, the smallest school in D-I College Hockey. Lets support the program, the players, the Coaches and pray for no injuries.

When you look at those other "barns" and you see the incredible history those other teams have, with the banners, plaques, trophy's, photo's of championship teams. We are still the new kid on the block. When you look at our rafters, there are some banners but have you ever looked at Cornell or Harvard or BC or North Dakota? We have a long way to go. I think, this year, we might try to capture something to fit into those half empty trophy cases. A Mayors cup perhaps?

 

[Aerman]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat?

...not to mention that bigger fish in the NCAA can swoop in to get a player to change commitment (BTW this happened with Johnny Hockey)...

That's not quite how it happened. Both Jo(h)n G's - Gaudreau and Gillies - were committed to Northeastern. When their coach was let go, all of the commits had the chance to look around and choose over. Were people talking to them before they officially decommitted? Of course not Coaches wouldn't act like that.

 

[ADK11]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat?

That's not quite how it happened. Both Jo(h)n G's - Gaudreau and Gillies - were committed to Northeastern. When their coach was let go, all of the commits had the chance to look around and choose over. Were people talking to them before they officially decommitted? Of course not Coaches wouldn't act like that.

That's not 100% accurate. A coaching change is not a valid reason for decommitting from an LOI, though most schools will grant a release in that situation like Northeastern did. The players have to ask for a release, they are not automatically "free agents" again. But, yes, there were some extenuating circumstances in Gaudreau's situation. Since Union doesn't live in the LOI system, a better example would have been Kevin Roy decommitting from Brown and going to Northeastern after he got drafted..

 

[Aerman]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat?

That's not 100% accurate. A coaching change is not a valid reason for decommitting from an LOI, though most schools will grant a release in that situation like Northeastern did. The players have to ask for a release, they are not automatically "free agents" again. But, yes, there were some extenuating circumstances in Gaudreau's situation. Since Union doesn't live in the LOI system, a better example would have been Kevin Roy decommitting from Brown and going to Northeastern after he got drafted..

Thanks for the clarification -

 

[rdf8585]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat?

Stevens named ECAC Goaltender of the Week today.

 

[Vaportrail]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat?

I know Union players (former, current, recruits) who were recruited to more decorated hockey schools. The themes are:
1) They've trusted Leaman and Bennett and believe(d) staffs will help development
2) Leaman and Bennett lack the arrogance so evident amongst coaches of other schools (especially Ivies).

I also believe both coaches are excellent judges of talent, and are able to project 16-18 year olds as 20-22 year old hockey players better than most coaches and scouts.

 

[Wholin1]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat?

Stevens named ECAC Goaltender of the Week today.

Colin's play has been everything that could have been asked for as he has developed into a very good goaltender. He's also proven to be a lot tougher than he looks as he's taken a some hard knocks and hung in consistently despite the pounding he has taken, most recently, Saturday at UNH when he withstood a big collision.

 

[rdf8585]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat?

Update on Mike Vecchione, who has missed Union's last four games with a full-body injury:

http://bit.ly/1f4uSat

 

[Dutchman]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat?

HARVARD SCOUTING REPORT

Summary: An excellent article in College Hockey News in reviewing Harvard's recent game again Cornell.
When Harvard wants to play, it can compete with any team in College Hockey.
http://blog.collegehockeynews.com/2014/01/the-takeaway-cornell-edges-determined-harvard-3-2/

This year Harvard started out with lots of injuries and minus several players who were waiting outcome of student academic issues. They really did not come together as a team until after December. For the first half they played very strong defense. Here is what we know:

Against then Ranked Teams:
They tied QU
They beat NH
They tied Yale
They beat BU

Harvard has more NHL draft picks on its roster than any other ECAC team (8)
The team is very young
Harvards Goal Tender, Raphael Girard, has been a permanent fixture as one of the top goalies in the country during the first half. They have had some rough going recently in a loss to Yale. However, he is still tied for 10th place NCAA (saves) and has two shutouts. He is third in the ECAC (.942sv and 1.9019gpg)

Harvard is ranked 6th nationally in the penalty kill (6 - Harvard 61-of-69 88). They are excellent shot blockers.
Harvard has not given up a power play goal in the last 4 games - opponents (QU, Yale, Cornell and Colgate) were 0 - 15
Harvard has outscored its opponents in the second period 20/14 and in the third period 18/12 but is being outscored in the first period by a lot 6/19
Harvard has given up 34.5 shots/game, 9th worse in the country.
Harvard is tied for 3rd place with 4 shorthanded goals. We have one.
Harvard is a better road team than a home team

From 2002 - 2010 our record againt Harvard is 2-13-1
From 2010 - current our record against Harvard is 7-0-1

Recent: Harvard recently suffered losses against two of its arch rivals, Yale and Cornell and then got wacked by Colgate. They are going to be smarting from these games and will head our way with something to prove. This is their only game this weekend. They always save their best for the best.

We need these two points.

ECAC TEAM - # of NHL Draft Picks
Harvard 8
Cornell 7
Yale 5
QU 4
Clarkson 3
Union 1
Colgate 1
Brown 1
RPI 1
Princeton 0
St. Lawrence 0
Dartmouth 0

 

[Wholin1]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat?

Dutchman, great analysis but you left out one other element Harvard also has, Ted Donato.

 

[UnionFan4Life]

HARVARD SCOUTING REPORT

Summary: An excellent article in College Hockey News in reviewing Harvard's recent game again Cornell.
When Harvard wants to play, it can compete with any team in College Hockey.
http://blog.collegehockeynews.com/2014/01/the-takeaway-cornell-edges-determined-harvard-3-2/

This year Harvard started out with lots of injuries and minus several players who were waiting outcome of student academic issues. They really did not come together as a team until after December. For the first half they played very strong defense. Here is what we know:

Against then Ranked Teams:
They tied QU
They beat NH
They tied Yale
They beat BU

Harvard has more NHL draft picks on its roster than any other ECAC team (8)
The team is very young
Harvards Goal Tender, Raphael Girard, has been a permanent fixture as one of the top goalies in the country during the first half. They have had some rough going recently in a loss to Yale. However, he is still tied for 10th place NCAA (saves) and has two shutouts. He is third in the ECAC (.942sv and 1.9019gpg)

Harvard is ranked 6th nationally in the penalty kill (6 - Harvard 61-of-69 88). They are excellent shot blockers.
Harvard has not given up a power play goal in the last 4 games - opponents (QU, Yale, Cornell and Colgate) were 0 - 15
Harvard has outscored its opponents in the second period 20/14 and in the third period 18/12 but is being outscored in the first period by a lot 6/19
Harvard has given up 34.5 shots/game, 9th worse in the country.
Harvard is tied for 3rd place with 4 shorthanded goals. We have one.
Harvard is a better road team than a home team

From 2002 - 2010 our record againt Harvard is 2-13-1
From 2010 - current our record against Harvard is 7-0-1

Recent: Harvard recently suffered losses against two of its arch rivals, Yale and Cornell and then got wacked by Colgate. They are going to be smarting from these games and will head our way with something to prove. This is their only game this weekend. They always save their best for the best.

We need these two points.

ECAC TEAM - # of NHL Draft Picks
Harvard 8
Cornell 7
Yale 5
QU 4
Clarkson 3
Union 1
Colgate 1
Brown 1
RPI 1
Princeton 0
St. Lawrence 0
Dartmouth 0

"When Harvard wants to play, it can compete with any team in college hockey" is such a subjective statement. Similar to the Dartmouth articles you posted at the beginning of the year saying "they played together in Europe over the offseason and were the team to beat in the ECAC." (That turned out well.) Union plays Union Hockey, we win, period.

 

[Dutchman]

Re: 2013-2014 Union Dutchmen - Can U Three Peat?

"When Harvard wants to play, it can compete with any team in college hockey" is such a subjective statement. Similar to the Dartmouth articles you posted at the beginning of the year saying "they played together in Europe over the offseason and were the team to beat in the ECAC." (That turned out well.) Union plays Union Hockey, we win, period.

That quote did not come from me. It came from Josh Seguin, College Hockey News Blog. By the way, USCHO had picked Dartmouth to finish third. In the last month Dartmouth has tied Vermont, Northeastern and Cornell and earlier defeated Yale, all ranked teams. The last time we played Dartmouth on December 11 some folks think they outplayed us, and they certainly outshot us. Colin had a great game. That game could have gone either way.

I am no better at picking who is going to end up at the top of the heap or the bottom of the heap, then the folks that picked Clarkson to finish last.

We are back playing Union hockey !!!!

My point is that Harvard is dangerous, despite their record, and we are going to need every ECAC point. We still face six ranked teams Yale (2), Clarkson (2) Colgate (1), Cornell (1) and we have one of the toughest ECAC schedules still left to play.