What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

2013-2014 D3 Commitments

Re: 2013-2014 D3 Commitments

jumbodaddy77 said:
Hey Delayed: I'm new to this forum. Would you please fill me in on the NCAA's rules that limit Canadian players at the DIII level? I assume it's different for DI players, with scholarships and all, but I could be wrong. I have kids that dream of playing in the NESAC, so I'm interested. Thanks.
Click to expand...

There aren't any rules that limit Canadian players at any level.

There are rules that govern awarding of financial aid for any player regardless of where they are from at the D3 level. Essentially any academic aid or scholarship available to any student athlete has to be available to any regular non-athlete student. In some cases schools have been caught on this because coaches push international student athletes towards any available aid whereas the regular admissions staff may not be actively recruiting internationals or pushing those who apply to the school on their own to apply for all the available aid/scholarships. This creates a discrepancy in the eyes of the NCAA even though the coaches haven't really intentionally tried to break the rules.

Then again there are probably some schools...maybe even some who haven't been caught...who have been very "creative" with how they are awarding aid in a purposeful attempt to push the boundaries of what is ethical or allowed.
 
Re: 2013-2014 D3 Commitments

jumbodaddy77 said:
I have kids that dream of playing in the NESAC, so I'm interested. Thanks.
Click to expand...

You must have wonderful kids that have such special dreams! I am most familiar with Bowdoin financial aid. Bowdoin admissions is on a "need blind" basis, meaning the financial aid required for a particular student is not part of the information considered in the admission decision. Bowdoin is lucky enough to have an endowment enabling them to fund grants of assistance (in addition to work study and other funding sources) thus allowing graduates to avoid the onerous burden of student loan debt. I believe several other NESCACs (Amherst, Middlebury and Williams) have similar resources.
 
Last edited:
WIrinkrat said:
There aren't any rules that limit Canadian players at any level.

There are rules that govern awarding of financial aid for any player regardless of where they are from at the D3 level. Essentially any academic aid or scholarship available to any student athlete has to be available to any regular non-athlete student. In some cases schools have been caught on this because coaches push international student athletes towards any available aid whereas the regular admissions staff may not be actively recruiting internationals or pushing those who apply to the school on their own to apply for all the available aid/scholarships. This creates a discrepancy in the eyes of the NCAA even though the coaches haven't really intentionally tried to break the rules.

Then again there are probably some schools...maybe even some who haven't been caught...who have been very "creative" with how they are awarding aid in a purposeful attempt to push the boundaries of what is ethical or allowed.
Click to expand...

Well said Rinkrat. I also believe that not only does the 'international' aid have to be available to all, it has to be taken. Meaning your Canadian hockey players accepting this aid can only represent a certain percentage of ALL international students accepting this aid. Not sure what the number is. It's too bad because the US D3 experience is a great thing, for Canadians and Americans alike, but it appears to be becoming a rich mans division.
 
Re: 2013-2014 D3 Commitments

obserbear said:
You must have wonderful kids that have such special dreams! I am most familiar with Bowdoin financial aid. Bowdoin admissions is on a "need blind" basis, meaning the financial aid required for a particular student is not part of the information considered in the admission decision. Bowdoin is lucky enough to have an endowment enabling them to fund grants of assistance (in addition to work study and other funding sources) thus allowing graduates to avoid the onerous burden of student loan debt. I believe several other NESCACs (Amherst, Middlebury and Williams) have similar resources.
Click to expand...

O'bear - As a result of experience over the last few years, you're in my wheelhouse here. So Bowdoin does have the no-loan policy you refer to as does Amherst. Williams and Middlebury have income graduated versions of this (i.e. below $75,000 family income - no loans, $75,000-$100,000 - $1000 in loans, etc.). The other NESCACs have variations between no loan and full loan. If someone is interested in a specific school, they should review the website info closely - it is there but if the school is disadvantaged in attracting students by their policy it may be harder to find.

Experience suggests that in general the NESCAC schools have enough money to make some sort of financial aid package work for almost everyone they admit. They are usually competing for the same group of kids, so they have to be competitive. Most (if not all) hockey coaches will want you to apply Early Decision at NESCACs because that is when they can wield the most influence on the admissions process. This can be a disadvantage in financial aid because you don't have a comparable offer usually to negotiate from (unless you apply Early Action to a non-NESCAC). But if you want to use hockey as a means to gain admittance to a NESCAC school, you pretty much have to play the ED game.
 
Re: 2013-2014 D3 Commitments

HockeyEast33 said:
O'bear - As a result of experience over the last few years, you're in my wheelhouse here. So Bowdoin does have the no-loan policy you refer to as does Amherst. Williams and Middlebury have income graduated versions of this (i.e. below $75,000 family income - no loans, $75,000-$100,000 - $1000 in loans, etc.). The other NESCACs have variations between no loan and full loan. If someone is interested in a specific school, they should review the website info closely - it is there but if the school is disadvantaged in attracting students by their policy it may be harder to find.

Experience suggests that in general the NESCAC schools have enough money to make some sort of financial aid package work for almost everyone they admit. They are usually competing for the same group of kids, so they have to be competitive. Most (if not all) hockey coaches will want you to apply Early Decision at NESCACs because that is when they can wield the most influence on the admissions process. This can be a disadvantage in financial aid because you don't have a comparable offer usually to negotiate from (unless you apply Early Action to a non-NESCAC). But if you want to use hockey as a means to gain admittance to a NESCAC school, you pretty much have to play the ED game.
Click to expand...

While I agree with some of the things you say, one of the biggest hurdles, besides financial aid, are the grades and scores. In fact, some of the kids who get good grades in some schools and struggle with the SAT's usually will not get in to the NESCAC schools. In talking with several NESCAC coaches, there is very little wiggle room when it comes to scores, and for sure you better be above at a minimum 1200. I know this to be true of at least the colleges you mention.

Also, because of the demand to get into these schools, with long waiting lists, do not bother to ask if the have merit based scholarships, as the NESCAC schools we looked at, again mentioned above, do not offer these. You can get financial aid for sure, based on your income, but don't think at the D3 level, at least as it pertains to the NESCAC's (what I am familiar with), they are not going to pay to get a player into a school, regardless of grades. Their standards are tough, but year after year they get good players.
 
Re: 2013-2014 D3 Commitments

Plugger said:
While I agree with some of the things you say, one of the biggest hurdles, besides financial aid, are the grades and scores. In fact, some of the kids who get good grades in some schools and struggle with the SAT's usually will not get in to the NESCAC schools. In talking with several NESCAC coaches, there is very little wiggle room when it comes to scores, and for sure you better be above at a minimum 1200. I know this to be true of at least the colleges you mention.

Also, because of the demand to get into these schools, with long waiting lists, do not bother to ask if the have merit based scholarships, as the NESCAC schools we looked at, again mentioned above, do not offer these. You can get financial aid for sure, based on your income, but don't think at the D3 level, at least as it pertains to the NESCAC's (what I am familiar with), they are not going to pay to get a player into a school, regardless of grades. Their standards are tough, but year after year they get good players.
Click to expand...

Plugger - totally agree!! You have to have minimum grades and test scores to even be a candidate at a NESCAC - it's one of the reasons they draw so heavily from New England prep schools where the academics are strong and they know how to prep their kids to appear attractive to the NESCACs academically. For students above the minimum, the NESCACs have an ABC rating system based on test scores and grades. A students are ones that are likely to be admitted, B students are in the middle and usually need something beyond their academics to get in (hockey, music, deep pockets, etc.), and C students need considerable support from a non-academic area to get in. Depending on how seriously a specific NESCAC takes athletics in general and hockey specifically, NESCAC coaches will almost always be able to get an A student in if they provide support (kid would likely get in anyway), have a pretty good chance at getting a defined number of B students in (number varies on school and year), and MAY be able to pull hard enough to get 1 C student in each year - this is where the importance of hockey to the school factors in most as the athletics department has a limited number of C admits and doles them out carefully.

The breakpoints for A B and C differ at each NESCAC and are VERY closely guarded info. I know that some admissions counselors at North East prep schools have old versions or educated guesstimates of each NESCACs breakpoints based on experience and can find out where an individual kid stands. If a kid is being seriously recruited by a NESCAC coach and being told that they can get them in, I would ALWAYS suggest that the kid's college counselor call the admissions office to see if they are aware of the player AND synched up with the coach on admissibility in the late summer or early Fall of Senior year. Experience suggests that this is not always the case.

And you are right on merit aid. I believe that all of the NESCACs are need based aid only. So you won't get any identifiable financial aid bump from being a hockey player (it may be buried as part of the need assessment but the school would never admit it). Places like Elmira have the advantage here because they have pretty extensive merit based aid for academic and non-academic performance that wouldn't be considered special at many of the NESCAC schools (3.0 and up GPA, etc.). But they don't have pure hockey-based aid either though (D3 NCAA requirement), so it will be presented as another form of merit aid.

As a note, I think the 1200 SAT score for NESCACs like Williams, Amherst, Middlebury, Bowdoin, and Wesleyan is probably too low. This might get you into the C group (or might not), but you'll have to be a really good hockey player and probably the number one recruit for the school in a given year to get in with that score. To get into the B category you're probably looking at 1300 SAT or 30 ACT minimum at these schools. Some of the other NESCACs - Trinity, Colby, and Conn College come to mind - are lower numeric B schools where a 1200 SAT or 27 ACT still gives you a fighting chance perhaps.
 
Last edited:
Re: 2013-2014 D3 Commitments

More Commits...

Chelsea Polidoro, G. (Quakers, PA) - Neumann College.

Erin Sullivan, D. (Gunnery School, CT) - Conn. College
 
Re: 2013-2014 D3 Commitments

Two Ohio Flames 19u players are:
Halle Donoho - Clevland OH - F- to Utica
Madison Alphin - Raleigh NC - D - to Chatham
 
Re: 2013-2014 D3 Commitments

A quick question - Do some of these programs really only have one or two recruits or is it that difficult to locate the destination of all HS grads? I was told about another site but it appears to be out of commission. Thanks.
 
Re: 2013-2014 D3 Commitments

I think there is a bunch of parents, players and coaches that don't even know this site exists. Personally, if I were a coach at either the college level or U19 club level I would be sure to post the commitments. In my mind it is a way of selling your program and it doesn't cost anything. I personally know of 5 girls from my daughter's U19 team that have committed to D3 schools but aren't listed on this site or thread. I don't feel comfortable sending in the info without first asking each of the families if they are OK with me doing that.
 
Re: 2013-2014 D3 Commitments

Mountain_Hockey_Dad said:
. Personally, if I were a coach at either the college level or U19 club level I would be sure to post the commitments. In my mind it is a way of selling your program and it doesn't cost anything.
Click to expand...

A coach at the college level who releases information on recruits would be considered in violation of federal education laws. Other sources outside the schoool can release it, the player can release it, but the coaching staff can not.
 
Re: 2013-2014 D3 Commitments

jerrynu26 said:
A coach at the college level who releases information on recruits would be considered in violation of federal education laws. Other sources outside the schoool can release it, the player can release it, but the coaching staff can not.
Click to expand...

I don't know about that, Jerry. Many D1 schools list detailed information about their recruits.
 
jerrynu26 said:
A coach at the college level who releases information on recruits would be considered in violation of federal education laws. Other sources outside the schoool can release it, the player can release it, but the coaching staff can not.
Click to expand...

I think once a deposit of some kind, housing/tuition is on file, it's game on.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top