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2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

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Fair enough, here goes:

How would we know if a person will be able to "bring something to the table" if they die of untreated tuberculosis or cancer first? So first, I'm advocating for universal healthcare. You may argue that we have than now, but instead of debating you on that point, I'll just request that we at least don't move backwards.

Second, I'd also argue that even a genius will never be able to seek out any opportunities if they don't have the access to educate themselves. This can be restricted in many societal ways, but I think at the very least, we should provide for a strong public education. You may argue that we have than now, but instead of debating you on that point, I'll just request that we at least don't move backwards.

We do a better job at providing general education in this country than we do at practical education. So, I'm advocating for FREE public college education for anybody who can get in.

Why is this opportunity redistribution and not wealth distribution? I'm glad you asked ;) The simple answer is that you're not redistributing tangible assets. You can't sell your degree or your chemotherapy treatments to anybody else. There is no value to these other than they give you more opportunity to do what you want with your life. Therefore, these do not fall in the same category as medicaid, welfare, or food stamps.

Of course, the things above cost money. We can argue plenty about where that money comes from. One conservative argument I concur with is that taking money from somebody to pay for the opportunity growth of others diminishes the opportunity of the person who gave the money. But then again, though "opportunity" isn't a zero sum game, neither is it an unlimited resource, hence the need to "spread it around." However, there's one group of people who do can give up ALL of their money without diminishing their opportunity at all... dead people. You can't take opportunity with you into the afterlife, you've got to use it up here.

As for our differences of opinion, I think that has a lot to do with our upbringing and personal circumstances... which I can respect. Even mookie1995's "Life aint fair. Deal with it" sentiment can me chalked up to a high "Power Distance" tolerance. It's no different than the way a Venezuelan or a Saudi Arabian might think. As for my line of thinking, I'm probably more similar to an Austrian or Israeli line of thinking. Ultimately, the lines of thinking balance out and is reflected in our legislation. That's why the U.S. is, globally, towards the middle in social mobility.

Still though, I'm not complaining for myself. I'm doing fine. I acknowledge that I didn't do it myself either. Not that my parents paid for my college or anything, but they gave me a stable home, encouragement, health insurance, a nice neighborhood with decent public schools, and occasional help with my homework. I'd say I was dealt a 9-8 suited. It's not a premium hand, but it's something to work with. I just think there's a lot of people with 7-2 offsuit out there that have the potential for greatness. It doesn't help our country if the chip leaders raise them all-in every hand.

Why is college the "opportunity"? Well, could be that college grads have tended to get better jobs and earn more money. Letting everybody into college won't make them all smart nor all successful.

As the saying goes: rich people drive Mercedes' but driving a Mercedes doesn't make you rich.

Send every kid to college and all we'll have are more unemployed college graduates. Assuming they graduate.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

Why is college the "opportunity"? Well, could be that college grads have tended to get better jobs and earn more money.
Correct.

Letting everybody into college won't make them all smart nor all successful.
Well, I don't know what you did in college, but I know it made me smarter. I never claimed it'd make them more successful. It'd give them the opportunity to become more successful.

Send every kid to college and all we'll have are more unemployed college graduates. Assuming they graduate.
Right, but Apple will have a larger candidate pool from which to pick the next great engineer. Johns Hopkins will have a larger candidate pool from which to pick the next great cancer researcher. ConAgra will have a larger pool from which to pick the next great geneticist. The average intellect of the United States will increase, therefore leading to a global competitive advantage. Maybe the unemployment rate among college graduates stays the same, but the average quality of the employed college graduates will improve.

Also, it's free to those who choose to attend. That won't be everybody. In fact, it's probably more important that vocational schooling is free than liberal arts schooling. Somebody posted earlier, a history major is rather useless. There's probably an argument to make for it's absolute value, but as a relative value, you won't get an argument from me.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

because they eat 2000-3000 calories per day and burn 1500. Seriously?

Then why does someone who eats 24,000 calories per day and burns 21,600 calories not become fat and instead have the remaining 2,400 pass through the rectum?
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

Correct.


Well, I don't know what you did in college, but I know it made me smarter. I never claimed it'd make them more successful. It'd give them the opportunity to become more successful.


Right, but Apple will have a larger candidate pool from which to pick the next great engineer. Johns Hopkins will have a larger candidate pool from which to pick the next great cancer researcher. ConAgra will have a larger pool from which to pick the next great geneticist. The average intellect of the United States will increase, therefore leading to a global competitive advantage. Maybe the unemployment rate among college graduates stays the same, but the average quality of the employed college graduates will improve.

Also, it's free to those who choose to attend. That won't be everybody. In fact, it's probably more important that vocational schooling is free than liberal arts schooling. Somebody posted earlier, a history major is rather useless. There's probably an argument to make for it's absolute value, but as a relative value, you won't get an argument from me.

Because you were a history major? :p:D

I believe you also misunderstood what I meant by opportunity. I did not mean educational opportunity. I meant the opportunity to advance in the class separation that the left seems to want to quantify. That isn't to say that education cannot lead to the opportunities I have been describing. Also, there are many out there that don't wish to entirely consider classroom education in whether to grant an opportunity, because it's only theory. One thing that is commonly sought, yet missed, is the application of that sort of thing. OK, so you got a fancy piece of paper for knowing Kirchoff's law. How do you apply it in the real world? That is the REAL education I have been seeking as a factor for my opportunities.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

Then why does someone who eats 24,000 calories per day and burns 21,600 calories not become fat and instead have the remaining 2,400 pass through the rectum?
We already covered this. You can't absorb more than 7,200 calories in a day regardless of the amount you eat. In other words, somebody who consistently burned 21,600 calories in a day would eventually die of starvation.
 
Then why does someone who eats 24,000 calories per day and burns 21,600 calories not become fat and instead have the remaining 2,400 pass through the rectum?

Now that you guys brought this up....

My building must be going green. The last month now I've noticed every time Mookie, umm goes, he leaves a little "poo island" in the bowl. Has to be because of lower water levels or whatnot... Doesn't feel like I'm exiting a higher volume. And they ain't floaters. Mookie is laying down to the bedrock.

Interesting nonetheless......
 
Correct.


Well, I don't know what you did in college, but I know it made me smarter. I never claimed it'd make them more successful. It'd give them the opportunity to become more successful.


Right, but Apple will have a larger candidate pool from which to pick the next great engineer. Johns Hopkins will have a larger candidate pool from which to pick the next great cancer researcher. ConAgra will have a larger pool from which to pick the next great geneticist. The average intellect of the United States will increase, therefore leading to a global competitive advantage. Maybe the unemployment rate among college graduates stays the same, but the average quality of the employed college graduates will improve.

Also, it's free to those who choose to attend. That won't be everybody. In fact, it's probably more important that vocational schooling is free than liberal arts schooling. Somebody posted earlier, a history major is rather useless. There's probably an argument to make for it's absolute value, but as a relative value, you won't get an argument from me.
But the "larger pool" logic only gets you better candidates for the jobs if the aptitude of the new candidates is distributed similarly to the existing applicants - for example, as if the college degrees had been randomly conferred upon 40% of americans, and then you randomly distribute 10% more. In that case, increasing the pool IS likely to net you more productive workers. As it is, chances are that the next great scientist is already destined for college, so getting more people to college is likely to suffer from some badly diminishing returns.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

But the "larger pool" logic only gets you better candidates for the jobs if the aptitude of the new candidates is distributed similarly to the existing applicants - for example, as if the college degrees had been randomly conferred upon 40% of americans, and then you randomly distribute 10% more. In that case, increasing the pool IS likely to net you more productive workers. As it is, chances are that the next great scientist is already destined for college, so getting more people to college is likely to suffer from some badly diminishing returns.
Since we're talking about free schooling, the new candidate pool won't be a perfect distribution, but it should be partially representative except slightly less wealthy. Also, the pool being larger actually makes better fit the more important factor. For example, in an applicant pool the size of one, the applicant is likely to take the position that pays the most. In an applicant pool the size of two, the employer who pays the most gets to hire the person who'll get the job done just as well at a lower cost. In other words, Apple could get the UX engineer they want who is currently working as a process engineer for Dell, because Dell found somebody who was qualified to be a process engineer who was cheaper and unqualified to be a UX engineer for Apple.

It's kind of like my current situation. I'm overqualified for my position, but it pays too well for me to leave for a more challenging job. If my employer found somebody who could do my job for cheaper, they would.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

We already covered this. You can't absorb more than 7,200 calories in a day regardless of the amount you eat. In other words, somebody who consistently burned 21,600 calories in a day would eventually die of starvation.

it would also be a pretty impressive feat to burn that many calories a day! A high altitude mountaineer might burn 10,000-15,000 calories on a Mount Everest summit day. A 165 pound runner burns around 2800 calories during a marathon if I remember correctly. A Tour de France rider can burn 6000-8000 calories in a day
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

Then why does someone who eats 24,000 calories per day and burns 21,600 calories not become fat and instead have the remaining 2,400 pass through the rectum?

I quote the great Anthony Dodson

"You are so dumb. Fo Real."
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

Eliminating eating may cause you to lose weight, but it also won't improve your health when you're deprived of necessary vitamins, minerals, and protiens.
Very few folks in the US are deprived of anything
 
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Somebody had a good line about the "its not a revenue problem its a spending problem" talking point. They likened it to saying "I have an eating problem, not an exercise problem" if you're overweight, and then refusing to do any exercising based on that logic.

Instead the person is congratulate themselves for exercising by eating a pint of Ben and Jerry's for dessert after finishing off 5 plates of Chinese buffet.
 
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