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2012 Presidential Election Part III: October Surprise!
- Thread starter Kepler
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Gurtholfin
Guest
unofan
Well-known member
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part III: October Surprise!
AAA, student, credit cards, and other IDs are not acceptable under the new laws.
Also, you don't have to show ID to register in many states, merely proof of residence, such as a mortgage, a utility bill, etc. Most people will show an ID, but there are other forms that are acceptable.
AAA, student, credit cards, and other IDs are not acceptable under the new laws.
Also, you don't have to show ID to register in many states, merely proof of residence, such as a mortgage, a utility bill, etc. Most people will show an ID, but there are other forms that are acceptable.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part III: October Surprise!
MO moves from Leans Romney to Toss-up. I can't believe the Romney-Akin juggernaut hasn't closed the deal.
MO moves from Leans Romney to Toss-up. I can't believe the Romney-Akin juggernaut hasn't closed the deal.
bronconick
Yep, still here
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part III: October Surprise!
Bull****. If Missouri is within half a dozen points on election day, I'll be stunned.
Bull****. If Missouri is within half a dozen points on election day, I'll be stunned.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part III: October Surprise!
I will be too, but polling is polling.
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part III: October Surprise!
It seems there is plenty of room for reasonable compromise here. The perception in some quarters, which seems reasonable to me, is that there are indisputable instances of election fraud. Even if it is not "widespread," if people feel strongly that their votes are being diluted unfairly, we have a problem.
Set aside "my team" vs "their team" for a moment, and think big picture...aren't we all better off feeling like someone won "fair and square"?
even if the incidents are isolated, they resonate. Excise the extremes for a moment. Set aside the "deliberate attempt to disenfranchise" nonsense for a little while and be rational. It seems we all agree every US citizen has the right to vote...at most once.
It seems there is plenty of room for reasonable compromise here. The perception in some quarters, which seems reasonable to me, is that there are indisputable instances of election fraud. Even if it is not "widespread," if people feel strongly that their votes are being diluted unfairly, we have a problem.
Set aside "my team" vs "their team" for a moment, and think big picture...aren't we all better off feeling like someone won "fair and square"?
even if the incidents are isolated, they resonate. Excise the extremes for a moment. Set aside the "deliberate attempt to disenfranchise" nonsense for a little while and be rational. It seems we all agree every US citizen has the right to vote...at most once.
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part III: October Surprise!
I saw a headline today where something like 43% of people disagree with you. Did not read on to find out if those are all the 43% of the people that are reality-denying Republicans still imagining a miracle upset. But basically they think the polls are not polls, but made up crap.
I saw a headline today where something like 43% of people disagree with you. Did not read on to find out if those are all the 43% of the people that are reality-denying Republicans still imagining a miracle upset. But basically they think the polls are not polls, but made up crap.
unofan
Well-known member
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part III: October Surprise!
Sure, but why does the cure for the GOP perception that there's voter fraud involve the potential disenfranchising of lots of minority and poor voters? That's still trading one perceived problem for another.
Is it better to risk fraud to make sure every citizen gets to vote? Or is it better to curtail fraud at the risk of legitimate voters being denied their rights?
It's no different than people's perceptions of the criminal justice system. Is it better to let 1000 guilty men go free to make sure an innocent man stays out of prison? Or do we trample the rights of the innocent to make sure the guilty stay locked up?
It's a philosophical difference, and you won't convince me that the problem of fraud - real or perceived - is anywhere near severe enough to warrant the proposed solutions.
Sure, but why does the cure for the GOP perception that there's voter fraud involve the potential disenfranchising of lots of minority and poor voters? That's still trading one perceived problem for another.
Is it better to risk fraud to make sure every citizen gets to vote? Or is it better to curtail fraud at the risk of legitimate voters being denied their rights?
It's no different than people's perceptions of the criminal justice system. Is it better to let 1000 guilty men go free to make sure an innocent man stays out of prison? Or do we trample the rights of the innocent to make sure the guilty stay locked up?
It's a philosophical difference, and you won't convince me that the problem of fraud - real or perceived - is anywhere near severe enough to warrant the proposed solutions.
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Slap Shot
I got nothing
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part III: October Surprise!
Horse hockey. Why is the perception reasonable to you despite the lack of evidence? You realize that the perception of Romney is that he is out of touch with the majority of Americans, doesn't care about them, is chomping at the bit to start another war, cheats on his taxes, etc., etc., etc. None of it is probably true, but hey percpetion.
Horse hockey. Why is the perception reasonable to you despite the lack of evidence? You realize that the perception of Romney is that he is out of touch with the majority of Americans, doesn't care about them, is chomping at the bit to start another war, cheats on his taxes, etc., etc., etc. None of it is probably true, but hey percpetion.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part III: October Surprise!
If it's statistically sound I'll buy it. If it's people projecting their wishes to let them sleep well at night, not so much.
On what basis? Because their favorite spoon-feeding network tells them so? Because 5 of their 7 friends think so?
If it's statistically sound I'll buy it. If it's people projecting their wishes to let them sleep well at night, not so much.
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part III: October Surprise!
as I said, I didn't read past the headline but I suspect the first option.
The irony being that they had to poll someone to find out if polls are real right? So perhaps they exaggerated the findings, and it's only 20% that think THE POLLS ARE MEANINGLESS AT THIS POINT.
as I said, I didn't read past the headline but I suspect the first option.
The irony being that they had to poll someone to find out if polls are real right? So perhaps they exaggerated the findings, and it's only 20% that think THE POLLS ARE MEANINGLESS AT THIS POINT.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part III: October Surprise!
All that is true about Romney. Voter fraud is a myth.
All that is true about Romney. Voter fraud is a myth.
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part III: October Surprise!
Who gets the honour of popping his head in to say "Toasty!"?
Who gets the honour of popping his head in to say "Toasty!"?
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part III: October Surprise!
While I wouldn't worry too much about MO going for Obama, what I will say is the closer he gets the better for McCaskill. What Akin needs is like Warren in Mass, a 20 point blowout so large that there won't be enough ticket splitters to elect the opponent. If the O can close to like 53-47 lets say, that makes her job a lot easier as I still believe a lot of people telling pollsters they won't vote for Akin will end up doing so in the privacy of the voting booth.
While I wouldn't worry too much about MO going for Obama, what I will say is the closer he gets the better for McCaskill. What Akin needs is like Warren in Mass, a 20 point blowout so large that there won't be enough ticket splitters to elect the opponent. If the O can close to like 53-47 lets say, that makes her job a lot easier as I still believe a lot of people telling pollsters they won't vote for Akin will end up doing so in the privacy of the voting booth.
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part III: October Surprise!
Obama better tuck Biden away soon and not let him speak again until after the election. Another bad gaffe or two like his crushing the middle class one could hurt Obama in a race that he leads, but not insurmountably.
Obama better tuck Biden away soon and not let him speak again until after the election. Another bad gaffe or two like his crushing the middle class one could hurt Obama in a race that he leads, but not insurmountably.
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part III: October Surprise!
What is your proposed solution? just let it continue? let's say that one particular alternative is no longer acceptable.
Don't talk about the GOP solution, that's not the question. I've suggested several ideas (that have nothing to do with the GOP) and have not gotten any response to those particular ideas at all, just more [redacted] about the GOP and more nonsense about "disenfranchising" people which again is merely an excuse to do nothing.
How would you reduce electoral fraud? You know that when more votes are cast than there are voters, something is seriously wrong.
What is your proposed solution? just let it continue? let's say that one particular alternative is no longer acceptable.
Don't talk about the GOP solution, that's not the question. I've suggested several ideas (that have nothing to do with the GOP) and have not gotten any response to those particular ideas at all, just more [redacted] about the GOP and more nonsense about "disenfranchising" people which again is merely an excuse to do nothing.
How would you reduce electoral fraud? You know that when more votes are cast than there are voters, something is seriously wrong.
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part III: October Surprise!
then why did Wendy Rosen drop out of the race for Maryland's 1st Congressional district because she voted in both Maryland and in Florida in 2006? She is dropping out of the race over a myth???
As has already been mentioned, there's no problem with voter ID's at the polls. The problem is enacting it right before the election. The experience in PA exposes the absurdity of your position. Yes, having the state give out free ID's is great, but when you restrict it to a DMV issued ID and the DMV's themselves can't handle the volume in the couple of months before the election, you've just disenfranchised thousands of legitimate voters. As court after court after court has ruled, you can't do that and I don't think all of these judges are Clinton/Obama appointees.
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