2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

[Kepler]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

We do tend to notice these things, don't we? Even so, every time the balloon goes up, we get ugly surprises. IED's for instance. No matter how much planning we do.

That's the "disadvantage" of not having constant wars. An army guy I work with says in addition to all the other advantages the US military has over other nations' conventional forces is that we're blooded. War plans work about as well as any other kind of human behavior plan, so it's "nice" to have recently had experience to get the kinks out.

It seems amazing that Desert Storm came off so well, considering that US forces had not seen major action for, what, 16 years?

 

[Priceless]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

It seems amazing that Desert Storm came off so well, considering that US forces had not seen major action for, what, 16 years?

You're not counting Grenada?

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[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

That's the "disadvantage" of not having constant wars. An army guy I work with says in addition to all the other advantages the US military has over other nations' conventional forces is that we're blooded. War plans work about as well as any other kind of human behavior plan, so it's "nice" to have recently had experience to get the kinks out.

It seems amazing that Desert Storm came off so well, considering that US forces had not seen major action for, what, 16 years?

So true. Rumsfeld got hammered for apparantly being flip when he said "you go to war with the army that you have," in response to the lack of up-armored Hummers. It sure as h*ll would have been nice to have them. And now we do. But prior to the start of that conflict, apparantly, nobody thought we needed 'em. Or at least nobody important enough to make it happen. There are thousands, perhaps tens of thousands, of other priorities that must be considered and decisions made as well. Like "we don't need no stinkin' winter uniforms for the troops on the Russian front, we'll be in Moscow before winter sets in." Sadly, these oversights usually wind up in loss of life.

Let's get back to the Iowas. In "Red Storm Rising," Clancy writes about a non-nuclear war between the Soviets and the US. At some point, the Russians take our AF base at Keflavik in Iceland. When we subsequently go on the offensive, the Navy wheels up an Iowa. The Russian commander is looking through his glasses when he sees 9 muzzle flashes and turns to his next in line and says: "Mother of God." He knows that 9 2700 pound AP rounds are heading his way. Followed by 9 more. Followed by 9 more, etc. etc.

When Secretary of the Navy John Lehman was up on Capitol Hill proposing bringing the battleships out of mothballs he was prepared for the claims of opponants that "they aren't very accurate." He'd arranged for a firing mission on Vieques, then overlaid the craters with a map of Capitol Hill. Total destruction. And that argument essentially went away. As I say, I wish we'd kept one of them on active duty as a sort of national flag ship.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

You're not counting Grenada?

Don't forget Nicaragua. At one point we were taking fire from the 7th story of a building. A spectre gunship was called in and suddenly it was a 6 story building. Problem solved.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Reminds me of an old (by my standards) classic (requires JSTOR access)
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2538636?uid=3739600&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21100765035951

Couple that with the development of numerous new weapons systems that far out stripped anything seen before and had never been used in combat. I think the two best books on the run up to the war are "The Guns of August" and "The Zimmerman Telegram," both by Barbara Tuchman.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Ah. Princess Summerfall Winterspring says she only listed herself as Indian because she wanted Cochise to invite her to the faculty dining room for a pemmican burger. Right. And she still insists somebody in her family was Indian (and was presumably selling non small pox infected blankets outside the fort) despite the absense of evidence.

Also please note, she suggests she's a victim (this is an involuntary response among libs) because she's "a woman."

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/p..._listing_to_make_friends/srvc=home&position=1

 

[FreshFish]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

this is an involuntary response among [her ilk]

Since she's from Harvard, I thought I might mangle a quote from Love Story (actually filmed at Harvard, I think) in her honor: "Being a leftist politician means you never are able to say 'I'm sorry'."

Weird how they never ever make a mistake....Imagine if she had merely said "oops, my bad" at the start of this episode, it would already have blown over [insert smoke signal joke].

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Saw an interesting article that recommends picking Jindal has VP. I think its a pretty medeocre choice...he doesn't bring that much (LA is probably already in the tank).

Rubio is the rage, but he's still not ideal. He is (1) good lookin (2) hispanic (3) from FL...which makes him probably the best the GOP has. But he's young...7 years younger than BO was 4 yrs ago. This leaves a pretty sharp Romney relying on his 4 years as governor in tiny Mass as the centerpiece of the ticket's experience. An also sharp Obama ticket with Biden came in in 2008 with a pretty decent combo were better ready to lead the country than these two would be.

Since she's from Harvard, I thought I might mangle a quote from Love Story (actually filmed at Harvard, I think) in her honor: "Being a leftist politician means you never are able to say 'I'm sorry'."

If true, 2008 taught it goes both ways.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Since she's from Harvard, I thought I might mangle a quote from Love Story (actually filmed at Harvard, I think) in her honor: "Being a leftist politician means you never are able to say 'I'm sorry'."

And of course "Being a rightie politician means you never are willing to say 'I'm sorry'."

At least one scene from "Love Story" was shot at Cornell -- the scene where his father meets him after the "Hordes from the North" game (which, fittingly, we win). It is right outside Barton Hall.

The game scenes were IIRC shot at the old Harvard rink (Watson) using the Dartmouth hockey team playing both sides.

 

[joecct]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

That's the fun part. I'm sure in 1925 the conventional wisdom was that the next world war would be won by dreadnoughts the size of cities.

I read somebody somewhere saying "a UAV the size of a desk will be taken down by 10 UAVs the size of a model airplane, which will be taken down by 100 UAVs the size of a paper clip, which will be taken down by 1000 UAVs the size of a miniscrew..."

But don't forget the 1922 SALT (er Washington Naval Treaty) talks followed by 1930 SALT II (London Naval Treaty).

We got CV's 2 and 3 (Lexington and Saratoga) out of it. I think Japan got the Kaga and Akagi.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Saw an interesting article that recommends picking Jindal has VP. I think its a pretty medeocre choice...he doesn't bring that much (LA is probably already in the tank).

Rubio is the rage, but he's still not ideal. He is (1) good lookin (2) hispanic (3) from FL...which makes him probably the best the GOP has. But he's young...7 years younger than BO was 4 yrs ago. This leaves a pretty sharp Romney relying on his 4 years as governor in tiny Mass as the centerpiece of the ticket's experience. An also sharp Obama ticket with Biden came in in 2008 with a pretty decent combo were better ready to lead the country than these two would be.



If true, 2008 taught it goes both ways.

Jindal is utterly brilliant and doing a remarkable job in Louisiana, where the old joke was how grateful they were for Mississippi. He wouldn't bring much to the party. But the bottom line seems to be the conventional wisdom: nobody votes for VP. Okay, except maybe in Texas in '60.

That listing of Romney's CV was complete? Right? No? Well imagine that.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Jindal is utterly brilliant

Look. Jindal may be brilliant, I have no idea. But so far the only exposure to him for 90% of us was that one horrendous response he gave where he looked, sounded, and acted exactly like Latka Gravas. I hope he fired his entire staff after that and that he can put in a better showing now because (1) I've been told he does have both a brain and some independence and we need that, and (2) exorcism jokes? Are you kidding me?! Best. Election. Ever.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Jindal is utterly brilliant and doing a remarkable job in Louisiana, where the old joke was how grateful they were for Mississippi. He wouldn't bring much to the party. But the bottom line seems to be the conventional wisdom: nobody votes for VP. Okay, except maybe in Texas in '60.

That listing of Romney's CV was complete? Right? No? Well imagine that.

Let's see. Might he have been a CEO? A $66B company...but one with just 400 employees.

Running a company is a far cry from managing the world largest economy. What is the other experience that will help as US/world's leader in the most challenging job there is? Easily the closest Romney gets to that is governor of Boston+. Probably comparable to BO's political experience 4 years ago. Rubio will be a disadvantage cause he will not help Romney where he needs it...experience.

Funny how in the end, the point here doesn't change.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Running a company is a far cry from managing the world largest economy.

For that matter, was he really "running" anything, or was he aboard for his rolodex? Roger Sterling is a great guy, but I don't want him on my important accounts, I want the people he knows.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Let's see. Might he have been a CEO? A $66B company...but one with just 400 employees.

Running a company is a far cry from managing the world largest economy. What is the other experience that will help as US/world's leader in the most challenging job there is? Easily the closest Romney gets to that is governor of Boston+. Probably comparable to BO's political experience 4 years ago. Rubio will be a disadvantage cause he will not help Romney where he needs it...experience.

Funny how in the end, the point here doesn't change.

So is being a state Senator in Illinois and a back bench rookie senator in Washington. Let's not gloss over His Fieldmarshallness' lack of qualifications and accomplishments four years ago. He had the thinnest presidential resume of the 20th (and 21st) century.

I'd also recmmend downplaying that "running the world's largest economy stuff." Because that's not what a president does. And even if it were, he's done a manifestly lousy job of it. Remember: "If unemployment remains about 8% I don't deserve a second term?" And the trillion dollar "stimulous" package, complete with "shovel ready jobs" that was going to make that happen? You do remember, don't you?

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Let's see. Might he have been a CEO? A $66B company...but one with just 400 employees.

Running a company is a far cry from managing the world largest economy. What is the other experience that will help as US/world's leader in the most challenging job there is? Easily the closest Romney gets to that is governor of Boston+. Probably comparable to BO's political experience 4 years ago. Rubio will be a disadvantage cause he will not help Romney where he needs it...experience.

Funny how in the end, the point here doesn't change.

Well, if Mitt wins he can always take bowing and apologizing lessons from His Manteuffelness. The great brain with the secret transcripts. And don't forget that thrilling, epochal victory over Alan Keyes. Man, that was impressive.

As Pat Buchanan once said of somebody else: his foreign policy experience in '08 consisted of having breakfast a couple of times at IHOP. Just a wag, but I'd imagine you weren't so adamant about "experience" four years ago.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Look. Jindal may be brilliant, I have no idea. But so far the only exposure to him for 90% of us was that one horrendous response he gave where he looked, sounded, and acted exactly like Latka Gravas. I hope he fired his entire staff after that and that he can put in a better showing now because (1) I've been told he does have both a brain and some independence and we need that, and (2) exorcism jokes? Are you kidding me?! Best. Election. Ever.

The guy's a Rhodes Scholar, which under different circumstances you guys used to suggest is a terrific credential. Bill Clinton fell flat on his face on national TV, too. So?

Whatever happend to not jumping to conclusions? And looking at the complete record? And taking a "nuanced" approach? And having an open mind? And all that other boilerplate?

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Jindal is also Catholic. A Mormon and a Catholic on the same ticket? Talk about asking the South to hold its collective nose. Though I suppose if you really dislike Obama, religious differences can be quickly overlooked.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

I guess its not Paul...Bachmann endorses Romney.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Going back to the discussion on military planning 20 years out, I do believe the future of air superiority lies in UAV's. If you can mass produce them at say $2 million apiece, the advantage is obvious. You could overwhelm any nation's air force through sheer numbers. For just $10B, you could buy 5,000 UAV's under this scenario. Good luck to any country trying to defend against that many aircraft attacking at one time. It's more or less the Chinese approach to land warfare - just throw insane numbers at the opposition, take heavy losses, but don't care because no defense can stand up to the assault. Plus with our stealth technology, there's no need to take heavy losses.

As far as how small these things will get, I guess that is really dependent on how small the weapon systems and fuel usage can get. I suppose we could build them to be the size of a common house fly, but there's not much point in that unless they can shoot something else down or blow something else up or provide surveillance.