2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

[FreshFish]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

I see poor little Elizabeth Warren, the people's friend and former Native American, had to scrape by with a measly $980,000 of earned income last year, while that mean rich dastard Scott Brown showed off his wealth with his "top 1%" $254,000 income.


<strike>and of course Ms Warren, who favors higher tax rates, voluntarily paid more as is allowed as a check off box on MA state income tax return</strike> (what?? oh, never mind....)



(these income figures actually are from joint tax returns for Warren and Brown as spousal income also was included).

 

[Bakunin]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Not solely, but they have the lion's share of the blame. Both parties are in the pocket of the banksters, but the right turned deregulation of the financial industry into a religion. Both parties gave the Wall Street children the matches, but it's the GOP who worships fire.

If you believe the Democrats could have or would have prevented the collapse of the American housing market, you have FAR more faith in their competence than I do. After all, the dot-com bust happened under Clinton's watch. The simple fact of the matter is when everybody is making money, nobody cares about the growing problems lurking beneath the surface. In 2000, it was people buying stocks at any price of companies that had no proven value. In 2007, it was people buying far more house than they could afford with little to no money down. In both cases, lots of people overreached due to greed / delusional thinking, and in both cases, it ended with millions of people taking it in the shorts.

I suspect that no matter who holds power in DC, we still haven't learned our lesson when it comes to bubbles and busts. The Fed continues to leave interest rates at an insanely low level, which means that easy money will inevitably find its way into some asset class, inflate its value to extraordinary heights, and then we'll see yet another collapse followed by much hand-wringing.

The idea of people placing their trust in either party is utterly mystifying to me when evidence shows neither is up to the task of effectively running the country.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

I see poor little Elizabeth Warren, the people's friend and former Native American, had to scrape by with a measly $980,000 of earned income last year, while that mean rich dastard Scott Brown showed off his wealth with his "top 1%" $254,000 income.


<strike>and of course Ms Warren, who favors higher tax rates, voluntarily paid more as is allowed as a check off box on MA state income tax return</strike> (what?? oh, never mind....)



(these income figures actually are from joint tax returns for Warren and Brown as spousal income also was included).

You sound bitter. In my mind it matters more the voting record then the individuals income levels. Elizabeth Warren has actually advocated for the middle class for a long period of time. Scott Brown's only interest is himself.

 

[walrus]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

You sound bitter. In my mind it matters more the voting record then the individuals income levels. Elizabeth Warren has actually advocated for the middle class for a long period of time. Scott Brown's only interest is himself.

She cares so much about everyone else she lied about her heritage, that sounds like someone who only cares about herself to me?

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Um, it was Clinton who signed that bill, you know.....

Yes, the GOP is the party of regulation. How could we forget?

You guys were right on the Soviets and wrong on the banksters. Both parties' tireless efforts deserve credit for those collapses, but one party was out in front in each case.

You win some, you lose some.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

You sound bitter. In my mind it matters more the voting record then the individuals income levels. Elizabeth Warren has actually advocated for the middle class for a long period of time. Scott Brown's only interest is himself.

Oh the horror. A self-interested politician? Stop the presses.

Here's an idea - why don't we elect people that have done something - anything - successfully in the real world? Most of these clowns appear to be lifers who know nothing of holding an actual job that requires them to do something other than blather on about what they want to do for us (and then ultimately don't do it and pretend to know nothing of their promises).

Edit: awesome! I got the 666th response in this thread.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

She cares so much about everyone else she lied about her heritage, that sounds like someone who only cares about herself to me?

She did? Or her employers did so they could say they were diverse?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...rican-problem/2012/05/01/gIQA7U5CuT_blog.html

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Oh the horror. A self-interested politician? Stop the presses.

Here's an idea - why don't we elect people that have done something - anything - successfully in the real world? Most of these clowns appear to be lifers who know nothing of holding an actual job that requires them to do something other than blather on about what they want to do for us (and then ultimately don't do it and pretend to know nothing of their promises).

Sure. Mitt Romney.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Most of these clowns appear to be lifers who know nothing of holding an actual job that requires them to do something other than blather on about what they want to do for us (and then ultimately don't do it and pretend to know nothing of their promises).

You just described every corporate executive I've ever met.

Big Bidness is every bit as far removed from "the real world" as politics and academia. And at least you have to be smart to make it in academia.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Sure. Mitt Romney.

Yes, a corporate raider is exactly what we need in the nation's highest office after what happened in '08.

I guess "the wrong way but faster" could work as government policy.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Yes, a corporate raider is exactly what we need in the nation's highest office after what happened in '08.

They picked oil men in 2000 and that worked out OK...

 

[Bakunin]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

You just described every corporate executive I've ever met.

CEO's have boards populated by other CEO's to vote for their pay and benefit increases.

Politicians have lobbyists (former politicians) throwing all sorts of gifts at them to affect policy.

The similarities are pretty humorous. Plus both groups take credit for things having little or nothing to do with them (economy's good - politicians jump all over that; company's share price goes up due to the whims of nutty investors/traders - CEO's jump all over that too).

Big Bidness is every bit as far removed from "the real world" as politics and academia. And at least you have to be smart to make it in academia.

I disagree with your second point. If you're willing to put in the work, anyone with a reasonable intellect could get a PhD in all likelihood. It's just a question of whether or not you want to spend that extra time in school doing research. And really, who is the smarter group? One of them begs for grants year after year while the other exercises stock options, owns or charters Lear jets. If one must be an idiot to gain access to that sort of thing, then I wish I could be that stupid.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

If you're willing to put in the work, anyone with a reasonable intellect could get a PhD in all likelihood.

That's not making it, though. PhDs grow on trees -- Silicon Valley trophy wives get them for kicks. OTOH, it actually does take a brain to land a tenure track faculty position at a top tier school.

At the very top of the corporate ladder and the academic ladder, though, it's all politics. CEOs, university presidents, and Senators spend all their time doing the same thing: begging the small brains for loot.

 

[Rover]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

I don't have the numbers, but I suspect that the 1990s tax rates wouldn't even come close to balancing the budget. Spending has exploded since then (both sides' fault), especially in non-discretionary* areas - medicare, medicaid, SS, etc.

.

I agree. However follow my plan and it takes all the nonsensical blathering off the table. Tax hikes will kill the economy? Didn't happen at those rates in the 90's. Can't balance the budget with those rates? Why not - happened a dozen years ago. This sets the revenues, now tackle the spending. I'm guessing, but at the time Bush's tax cuts were about 1.2T over 10 years for the first go around and maybe another 400M the second time. Given inflation, higher incomes, etc I'm going to put the higher tax levels in the 200-250B a year range. The annual deficit is approx 1T. That means I need 750M which I would get from A) Defense/war cuts - about 200B; Domestic programs about 200B, Economic growth 200B and the remainder I'd do some smaller tweaks to entitlements (tort reform + lower index for inflation for SoS growth). That would get things in line. To start making money and paying down the debt already accumulated, means test Medicare and reign in deductions.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Alan Greenspan weighs in on the deficit:

Former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan on Tuesday said President Barack Obama should have immediately embraced the 2010 Simpson-Bowles deficit-reduction proposal.

“The worst mistake the president made was not embracing that vehicle right away,” Greenspan said at the Bloomberg Washington Summit.

“It’s the ideal vehicle, which won’t get us fully out of this” fiscal situation, Greenspan said. He said the plan is ideal because it allows political compromise even if it wouldn’t now completely resolve the deep fiscal problems the country faces.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Wouldn't have mattered. All that vehicle did was slow growth. Same as Ryan's plan. The mistake was made in 2001 when we decided that we had so much money we had to give it back to taxpayers and the Middle East. Now it's over. The Baby Boomers will fulfill their reason for being and that is to bankrupt the United States of America.

 

[geezer]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

at least you have to be smart to make it in academia.

You haven't met these people. Many professors are less intelligent than their plumbers and car mechanics. I'm completely serious. Academia is the refuge of lifelong stupidity.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

This sets the revenues, now tackle the spending.

If only it actually worked that way in practice! You and I are in agreement, we need a mix of revenue enhancement and spending cuts.

The practical problem has been that the tax rates go up but the spending cuts never materialize.

The other part of the program, it seems to me, should be to increase the revenue potential from federal assets. There are below-market leases for grazing rights, timberland, etc. that are granted to politically-favored constituents of both parties; there are under-utilized oil and gas leases, etc.

Revenue enhancements don't necessarily have to come from increasing tax rates....it makes much more sense to eliminate the arbitrary and capricious set of deductions and reduce rates so that more money initially is collected afterward than before, spread over a broader base at lower rates. People just don't realize how corrupting high tax rates are.....every lobbyist worth her salt loves high tax rates because it allows for so many narrowly-targeted special-interest provisions to be inserted into the law. There's not much point in raising tax rates while also inserting special-interest deductions at the same time, is there?

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Alan Greenspan weighs in on the deficit:

You'll be posting links to Greenspan arguing against extending the Bush tax cuts next, right?

Obama should definitely have embraced Simpson-Bowles. He was being too clever by half: he knew the GOP would go nuts if he backed it (on that he was right, and that's the only semi-decent reason for him to have gone on the d/l) BUT he also calculated that there would be something to gain if he was "troubled" by the cuts being suggested (which may or may not have been good politics but is the kind of crappy governance we're used to from the GOP. Dude, it's your commission -- go with the findings).

In retrospect, backing S-B would have given him bipartisan bona fides when the GOP pulled their tantrum, and he would have had a default bargaining position to work from after their debt ceiling gimmick imploded. It would have made no policy difference -- the Derangers were not about to give him anything that looked like a political victory -- but it would have clarified the debate at that time.

But then the clusterfuck of the Ryan Plan came along and shredded any GOP credibility, and Romney's campaign trail proposals (this week's) are even worse, so it's all water under the bridge now.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

You haven't met these people. Many professors are less intelligent than their plumbers and car mechanics. I'm completely serious. Academia is the refuge of lifelong stupidity.

One of the evergeen laugh lines used to overcompensate. Next time do better on the GREs.

Business is the refuge of lifelong stupidity. Academia is the refuge of lifelong carping. There's a difference.