2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

[BassAle]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

They didn't run Pingree because she had no chance.

She was polling pretty good without King in the race and would have been the favorite over any of the potential Republicans at the time. She would have lost a lot of the moderate democrats and independents to King in a 3+ way race and probably couldn't have won with him in the race and to add insult to injury having a strong democrat and a strong center-left independent in the race would probably hand the seat to a Republican.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Some speculate that means he will caucus with whichever party gives him the best committee assignments.

He may just be playing it right down the middle until he sees the numbers. If the Senate winds up split 50R-49D (one of the most likely outcomes), he would carry majority with him. That's leverage.

Though God knows whether majority even means anything anymore in the liberum veto Senate.

 

[huskyfan]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

So we should take your word over his own son's? Got it.

nah. I'd go with the rest of the family, all of his doctors, aides and friends, political opponents, etc. over my word.

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

My guess is King stays silent about which side he'll caucus with, simply because he wants to win. And unless he shoots himself in the foot, it looks like he will. Nothing to gain by putting cards on the table now.

My other guess is that it'll be the Dems. They're more interested in playing the median voter game than the GOP is. The GOP is just as happy, if not happier, trying to slide the whole scale to the right. They value the median voter less, and they're not going to enrage the tea derpers by putting a moderate in any huge position of power.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Sorry, but he does NOT have or reflect the true values of the Republican Party.

Well, here's the thing... after the nomination he has a lot of power to set the parameters of the values of the Republican Party. Not every GOPer is blind, and they are all ambitious -- they want to be the ruling party. They can all read demographic tables and they know that they are going to need to make the most dramatic party pivot in American history since the Dems kicked out the Jim Crow south. Who better to lead that pivot than an opportunist with no ideological compass?

Romney isn't the 2010 GOP, but Clinton wasn't the 1990 Democratic Party, either. I would not underestimate him.

 

[walrus]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

She was polling pretty good without King in the race and would have been the favorite over any of the potential Republicans at the time. She would have lost a lot of the moderate democrats and independents to King in a 3+ way race and probably couldn't have won with him in the race and to add insult to injury having a strong democrat and a strong center-left independent in the race would probably hand the seat to a Republican.

I think King would have won no matter what, the Repubs have no one to run that stands out at all.

 

[Rover]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Regarding King, I don't mind more independents in the Senate. He has said publicly he's backing Obama, so I it might be a little hard for the GOP to welcome him with open arms unless the divided Senate scenario unfolds and he's the tiebreaker vote. If that's the case and I were him, I'd hold out for the Senate Majority Leader position! Hell, it'd be an improvement over the useless Reid and corrupt McConnell.

No idea why Lugar is getting tossed by his own party. As far as that race goes, it serves the purpose of forcing the GOP to spend money there, although I ultimately think they'll be successful unless Murdock is a total nubjob ala the Delaware Senate race in 2010. What Donnelly would need in that case is old time Republicans to be so angry at the insurgent campaign that they try to stick it to Lugar's opponent by voting for the other party. That happens occasionally in congressional races, but I can't remember that happening in the Senate as few incumbents get knocked off in the primary.

 

[Rover]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

nah. I'd go with the rest of the family, all of his doctors, aides and friends, political opponents, etc. over my word.

What about your pal Richard Nixon? Did he have an axe to grind too?

 

[LynahFan]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Lastly, as an upper middle class taxpayer (I won't be benefiting from the Romney-Ryan tax giveaway) I say put tax levels back to 1990's levels. That will mean everybody pays more, from the highest to the lowest earners but you know what - so be it. The last time the budget was balanced was under those tax rates, so if it can be done once (or 4 times I believe) then it can be done again with no excuses. Get the revenue mechanisms back in place to a historical rate that worked and take that issue off the table. Then the rest of the work can begin.

I don't have the numbers, but I suspect that the 1990s tax rates wouldn't even come close to balancing the budget. Spending has exploded since then (both sides' fault), especially in non-discretionary* areas - medicare, medicaid, SS, etc.

*I love the term "non-discretionary." As if there was an edict from God that the money must be spent, as opposed to mere laws. Laws? Passed by whom? Congress. If they wanted to spend less in those areas, all they have to do is pass laws, which is WHAT THEY (occasionally) DO. It's every bit as disingenuous and stupid as "off-budget" war spending - as if those dollars somehow don't count.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

I don't have the numbers, but I suspect that the 1990s tax rates wouldn't even come close to balancing the budget. Spending has exploded since then (both sides' fault), especially in non-discretionary* areas - medicare, medicaid, SS, etc.

Probably not during the economic downturn, no. IIRC the deficit is about a third the Bush tax cuts, a third the recession, and a third the wars.

One of the ways spending has "exploded" is the aging of the Boomers. Even if the contours of programs had stayed exactly the same as they were in the 90's, we were always going to have to swallow that enormous pill from roughly 2010-2040. It isn't only the Boomers, though -- if it was we could put them on an ice floe in about 2020 when the numbers balance. It's us, their descendents who don't want them living with us.

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

I could be wrong, but the first time I heard non-discretionary, it was in reference to debt service.

Even that is discretionary, albeit barely. I'll look the other way. It seems like the concept has experienced some inflation in recent years.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Government is in part a machine designed to address one particular thing: the drive of certain people to dominate, by any means necessary. History has amply proven they exist in non-trivial numbers and can make life miserably for the rest of us unless we have some means of protecting ourselves against them.

Limited government is designed to address the drive of certain people to dominate, by any means necessary, including by taking over the reins of government themselves in order to establish a privileged class of government employees who then receive better treatment than all other members of society. History has amply proven that power corrupts, and absolute poer corrupts absolutely. Centralized government with too much power can make life miserable for the rest of us unless we have some means of protecting ourselves against it, by making sure it never gains too much power over our everyday lives in the first place.


I liked much of your post, merely updated it slightly to tone down the naivete.

 

[geezer]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Probably not during the economic downturn, no. IIRC the deficit is about a third the Bush tax cuts, a third the recession, and a third the wars.

One of the ways spending has "exploded" is the aging of the Boomers. Even if the contours of programs had stayed exactly the same as they were in the 90's, we were always going to have to swallow that enormous pill from roughly 2010-2040. It isn't only the Boomers, though -- it is was we could put them on an ice floe in about 2020 when the numbers balance. It's us, their descendents who don't want them living with us.

That doesn't make any sense. You're just picking the three most disagreeable line items out of the budget and saying, it's because of these 3 that we have a deficit. You could just as rightfully say the deficit is 1/3 SS, 1/3 Medicare, and 1/3 the standing army. In other words, there's a value judgement in your math. I would have had way more cash to invest in fun at the casino this week, if I didn't waste so much on boring rent and groceries.
(and now I'm the one calling tax cuts expenses. God help us all)

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

I liked much of your post, updated it a bit to tone down the naivete.

We are each guarding against a different kind of villainy. The important thing is for both sides to always be pulling, to maintain the tension that holds the structure up.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

That doesn't make any sense. You're just picking the three most disagreeable line items out of the budget and saying, it's because of these 3 that we have a deficit. You could just as rightfully say the deficit is 1/3 SS, 1/3 Medicare, and 1/3 the standing army. In other words, there's a value judgement in your math. I would have had way more cash to invest in fun at the casino this week, if I didn't waste so much on boring rent and groceries.

I see what you are saying but I don't completely agree. There's a reason to pick the three items I did -- they are the three big deltas in the environment since the 90's. The "control" group is to take the budget rules in say 1999 and project them forward.

But I am all for counting all dollars as equal and in the broader sense I agree with you and LynahFan -- to get out of this mess we will have to reexamine the entire budget and not take anything as "non-discretionary" except debt payment.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Whose money do you think disappeared in 2008?

First off, it's a paper loss unless you lock in the value by selling. So anyone - at any income level - lost money in 2008 if they sold real estate post-financial crisis/real estate bubble pop (depending of course on when they bought). Stock market investors lost little to nothing if they stayed in the market 'til the present time.

Whose policies do you think led to that collapse?

You can't credibly lay this solely at the door of the GOP. The federal reserve's monetary policy is non-partisan. HUD encouraging low income borrowers/home ownership is non-partisan. Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae are non-partisan entities, as is the FHA. Both parties did nothing to get in the way of the government's policy of expanding home ownership.

What happened to GW's "ownership" society? We've been living under "trickle down" economic theory for over 30 years folks. This is a very simple thread to follow.

So you're saying Clinton did nothing to get in the way of it? He was only president for 8 years.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

You can't credibly lay this solely at the door of the GOP.

Not solely, but they have the lion's share of the blame. Both parties are in the pocket of the banksters, but the right turned deregulation of the financial industry into a religion. Both parties gave the Wall Street children the matches, but it's the GOP who worships fire.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

First off, it's a paper loss unless you lock in the value by selling. So anyone - at any income level - lost money in 2008 if they sold real estate post-financial crisis/real estate bubble pop (depending of course on when they bought). Stock market investors lost little to nothing if they stayed in the market 'til the present time.

You can't credibly lay this solely at the door of the GOP. The federal reserve's monetary policy is non-partisan. HUD encouraging low income borrowers/home ownership is non-partisan. Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae are non-partisan entities, as is the FHA. Both parties did nothing to get in the way of the government's policy of expanding home ownership.

So you're saying Clinton did nothing to get in the way of it? He was only president for 8 years.

It's all fine. And I'm sure you're right on your little points there, but you can't explain away 30 years of failed economic theory. We've been living under and continue to live under that economic theory. Clinton had other things he worked on. He helped the middle class by trying to get the budget under control cause he knew that's where the country would go looking for the cash if he didn't. And here we are. Seems Clinton was right.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Both parties are in the pocket of the banksters, but the right turned deregulation of the financial industry into a religion.

Um, it was Clinton who signed that bill, you know.....

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2012 Elections - Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death....

Um, it was Clinton who signed that bill, you know.....

Yep. Huge mistake. Biggest mistake of his Presidency.