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2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

By excluding the best teams by implementing rules that have nothing to do with hockey (what kind of school a child attends) you have diluted what is otherwise an OPEN National Championship.

In case you didn't notice, USA Hockey has a Tier II National Championship that allows limits on how a team can be organized. The intent here is to allow the Tier I Championship to be WIDE OPEN.

I agree that NAHA SSM and NSA should be excluded from the Tier II National Championship. And clubbing baby seals should be banned as well.

In every sport, for every league, for every age, divisions are defined by some type of definition. Rarely leagues in youth sports and high school ever have divisions that are defined by talent. Instead divisions are defined by school size, rules and restrictions with recruiting, length of the season, capabilities, and recourses. Divisions are made so that the talent level is at least relatively fair, not equal. But talent level is never used to define a league in amateur sports.

So I think NAHA, SSM and NSA when competing for a national championship, should be playing in a division with teams that have similar capabilities and restrictions. I doubt Assabet would love to have NAHA compete too if they were coming out of MA instead of NE. And not sure where the baby seals thing came from but I like grilled cheeses?
 
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Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

In every sport, for every league, for every age, divisions are defined by some type of definition. Rarely leagues in youth sports and high school ever have divisions that are defined by talent. Instead divisions are defined by school size, rules and restrictions with recruiting, length of the season, capabilities, and recourses. Divisions are made so that the talent level is at least relatively fair, not equal. But talent level is never used to define a league in amateur sports.

So I think NAHA, SSM and NSA when competing for a national championship, should be playing in a division with teams that have similar capabilities and restrictions. I doubt Assabet would love to have NAHA compete too if they were coming out of MA instead of NE. And not sure where the baby seals thing came from but I like grilled cheeses?

I'm confused...what Division do the Baby Seals play in anyway? Why are they always getting clubbed? Is it their lack of goal scoring, poor defensive play or do they just need better goaltending?
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

Alright, you can keep calling chinese walls what ever you’d like. I mean you do call yourself a long time hockey expert and that’s not really a big deal to me ether.

You claim letting the best teams in tier I is best for girls’ hockey. I’m saying I don’t believe that. These schools are already going to play each other and they’re already going to play the best club teams whether they’re in nationals or not. If you include these preps in tier I nationals, then your excluding the best youth teams coming out of NY, MN, and NE (although second in talent to some prep teams).

So really the only pro that would come out of letting preps compete is that one of these schools could call themselves the national champion each year. And they have better bragging rights because they beat all the best teams. (They are not better players because of it, they did not get more exposure, and they did not play better competition than what they played against during their regular season).

Cons, you’re keeping the youth programs that would of gone to nationals, if those preps weren’t allowed to compete, isolated. And by watching the Olympics you should probably be able to tell that being isolated from the best competition is no way to further the development of a youth hockey team, or youth hockey in general. (And yes, keeping these preps from nationals is not isolating them, they already play all the teams they’d be going to play without going to nationals).

Fact check - I did a search function here on USCHO for posts by me that contained the word "expert". Exactly 1 post came up (this post will make 2). It said that I was not an expert at (something else). So in no place have I ever called myself a hockey expert on this forum (or any other forum for that matter).

As for excluding the best youth teams from MN, NY, and NE Districts, I'd say that it would be more competitive. I believe the MN Thoroughbreds only lost 1-2 to SSM in the District qualifier this year. Perhaps next year the story will be different. Likewise, NSA has never been called a powerhouse at the 19U level and in fact the Western NY teams have been quite successful at Nationals in years past. They seem to be down right now, but that is not something that necessarily lasts. And if the PBs and CT Stars definitely are very competitive with NAHA year in and year out. I'd say that either of them can win against NAHA in any given year in a one and done elmination game.

All of this says that the 3 clubs you question should be playing at this level of competition.

And yes, no matter who goes to Nationals, there is a bragging right to be won. I never said it deems the individuals on the team as better players, just a better team.

And your last argument about somehow isolating the "youth" (by your definition) teams at this end-of-season National Championship causing harm to them is laughable. By and large, the teams that NAHA, SSM, and NSA could be displacing (if they win their district) by and large play the same schedule or at least an equivalent schedule. The MN Thoroughbreds play in the same JWHL Division as SSM for heaven's sake. PB's and NAHA have all the opportunity they want to play each other (even if they don't take advantage of it all of the time). The Western NY teams have plenty of opportunity to play anyone they want and choose to play games close to home in Ontario.

I'm lost on where the harm to hockey is when it comes to opening up the USA Hockey Tier I National Championship to all comers.
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

I'm confused...what Division do the Baby Seals play in anyway? Why are they always getting clubbed? Is it their lack of goal scoring, poor defensive play or do they just need better goaltending?

LMOA :D
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

So I think NAHA, SSM and NSA when competing for a national championship, should be playing in a division with teams that have similar capabilities and restrictions. I doubt Assabet would love to have NAHA compete too if they were coming out of MA instead of NE. And not sure where the baby seals thing came from but I like grilled cheeses?

As to the baby seals comment, it was a subtle piece of humor. Note the context it was used in...

I agree that NAHA SSM and NSA should be excluded from the Tier II National Championship. And clubbing baby seals should be banned as well.

The idea of a 2nd tier team playing against NAHA is similar to the defenseless situation a baby seal would be in trying to defend itself against the fur hunters who bash them while they are still living on the ice and cannot swim away. Not saying that NAHA would ever schedule such a game either. I guess I forgot to put one of the winky ;) emotocons next to the comment to make it clearer. :eek:

And are you calling Carl a coward?
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

Here we go again. I guess some of us didn't get enough of this on the Brown thread.

I have two recommendations....

1 - Lets create a new thread for the exclusive use of HCKY85 and NotFromaroundHere so they can discuss the Chinese Wall. and its various permutations, meanings and backgrounds.

2 - More importantly lets get back to the reason for this thread. Who are the best U19 teams in NA, Club, Prep, Canuck, JW, PW, No W etc etc....

My votes:

1 - SSM
2 - Missy
3 - Aeros
4 - Montpetit
5 - POE
6 - LC
7 - Warner
8 - Assabet
9 - NAHA
10 - Bluewater
 
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Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

I'm confused...what Division do the Baby Seals play in anyway? Why are they always getting clubbed? Is it their lack of goal scoring, poor defensive play or do they just need better goaltending?

Extra! Extra! Read all about it!

I've been informed via private email that the Baby Seals plight rests squarley on the shoulders of their coach and that he/she needs to be fired. Film at 11:00.
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

Fact check - I did a search function here on USCHO for posts by me that contained the word "expert". Exactly 1 post came up (this post will make 2). It said that I was not an expert at (something else). So in no place have I ever called myself a hockey expert on this forum (or any other forum for that matter).

As for excluding the best youth teams from MN, NY, and NE Districts, I'd say that it would be more competitive. I believe the MN Thoroughbreds only lost 1-2 to SSM in the District qualifier this year. Perhaps next year the story will be different. Likewise, NSA has never been called a powerhouse at the 19U level and in fact the Western NY teams have been quite successful at Nationals in years past. They seem to be down right now, but that is not something that necessarily lasts. And if the PBs and CT Stars definitely are very competitive with NAHA year in and year out. I'd say that either of them can win against NAHA in any given year in a one and done elmination game.

All of this says that the 3 clubs you question should be playing at this level of competition.

And yes, no matter who goes to Nationals, there is a bragging right to be won. I never said it deems the individuals on the team as better players, just a better team.

And your last argument about somehow isolating the "youth" (by your definition) teams at this end-of-season National Championship causing harm to them is laughable. By and large, the teams that NAHA, SSM, and NSA could be displacing (if they win their district) by and large play the same schedule or at least an equivalent schedule. The MN Thoroughbreds play in the same JWHL Division as SSM for heaven's sake. PB's and NAHA have all the opportunity they want to play each other (even if they don't take advantage of it all of the time). The Western NY teams have plenty of opportunity to play anyone they want and choose to play games close to home in Ontario.

I'm lost on where the harm to hockey is when it comes to opening up the USA Hockey Tier I National Championship to all comers.

Alright, fine lets say I agree with you and boarding schools have every legitimate right to go to nationals.

What would happen if some new boarding school came along that only attracted players who wanted to concentrate strongly on hockey by u12 and u14. They recruited the top 10-14 year old girls from across the u.s. and canada and clearly had the best teams for that age group. There’d be no problem if they wanted to play in nationals too then right?
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

Alright, fine lets say I agree with you and boarding schools have every legitimate right to go to nationals.

What would happen if some new boarding school came along that only attracted players who wanted to concentrate strongly on hockey by u12 and u14. They recruited the top 10-14 year old girls from across the u.s. and canada and clearly had the best teams for that age group. There’d be no problem if they wanted to play in nationals too then right?

Geez, are we going after infant seals now?

Anyway, according to Hux, the U12 and U14 Nationals are getting cut :mad: :mad:. So, if they then created the prep school tournament you suggested, at least the kids would have a place to play!

Hux, it seems pretty clear from your posts that you have the inside scoop and know what you're talking about. I asked around during district playoffs and heard that cutting the 12s wasn't a done deal yet. Is that true? I hope what I heard was right. It would be a shame to take the tournament away from the younger kids.
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

Extra! Extra! Read all about it!

I've been informed via private email that the Baby Seals plight rests squarley on the shoulders of their coach and that he/she needs to be fired. Film at 11:00.
Is he/she wearing provocative clothing? Is he/she not leading the team to appear at appropriate league events? Is he/she having tryouts that include cuts of previously existing players? Or is he/she simply getting clubbed?

Inquiring minds want to know!
 
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Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

2 - More importantly lets get back to the reason for this thread. Who are the best U19 teams in NA, Club, Prep, Canuck, JW, PW, No W etc etc....

My votes:

1 - SSM
2 - Missy
3 - Aeros
4 - Montpetit
5 - POE
6 - LC
7 - Warner
8 - Assabet
9 - NAHA
10 - Bluewater

I can't comment on the Canadian considerations, but looking at your American selections:

1-SSM
6-LC
8-Assabet
9-NAHA

If I were to reorder just these four as 1-4, I think it would go more like LC, Assabet, SSM, NAHA.

Therefore, I'd say LC is too low, Assabet is too low, SSM is too high, and NAHA is probably just about right for this year.

Oh, umm, maybe the Baby Seals should be 11th???
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

Is he/she wearing provocative clothing? Is he/she not leading the team to appear at appropriate league events? Is he/she having tryouts that include cuts of previously existing players? Or is he/she simply getting clubbed?

Inquiring minds want to know!

With respect to the coaches attire, my source is from Boston and now I'm not sure whether they said the coach wore Khaki's or the were looking for their car keys? :)

There are no tryouts...whomever has the most money plays and that apparently is why they continue to get clubbed. ;)
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

I'm confused...what Division do the Baby Seals play in anyway? Why are they always getting clubbed? Is it their lack of goal scoring, poor defensive play or do they just need better goaltending?

I think the problem is their coach is an ice hole
:rolleyes:
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

With respect to the coaches attire, my source is from Boston and now I'm not sure whether they said the coach wore Khaki's or the were looking for their car keys? :)

;)

:D :D :D

Seems the coach of the Baby Seals wears fur :eek:

Not sure what the controversy seems to be with that, as it tends to be quite practical in cold arenas.
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

Fact check - I did a search function here on USCHO for posts by me that contained the word "expert". Exactly 1 post came up (this post will make 2). It said that I was not an expert at (something else). So in no place have I ever called myself a hockey expert on this forum (or any other forum for that matter).

As for excluding the best youth teams from MN, NY, and NE Districts, I'd say that it would be more competitive. I believe the MN Thoroughbreds only lost 1-2 to SSM in the District qualifier this year. Perhaps next year the story will be different. Likewise, NSA has never been called a powerhouse at the 19U level and in fact the Western NY teams have been quite successful at Nationals in years past. They seem to be down right now, but that is not something that necessarily lasts. And if the PBs and CT Stars definitely are very competitive with NAHA year in and year out. I'd say that either of them can win against NAHA in any given year in a one and done elmination game.

All of this says that the 3 clubs you question should be playing at this level of competition.

And yes, no matter who goes to Nationals, there is a bragging right to be won. I never said it deems the individuals on the team as better players, just a better team.

And your last argument about somehow isolating the "youth" (by your definition) teams at this end-of-season National Championship causing harm to them is laughable. By and large, the teams that NAHA, SSM, and NSA could be displacing (if they win their district) by and large play the same schedule or at least an equivalent schedule. The MN Thoroughbreds play in the same JWHL Division as SSM for heaven's sake. PB's and NAHA have all the opportunity they want to play each other (even if they don't take advantage of it all of the time). The Western NY teams have plenty of opportunity to play anyone they want and choose to play games close to home in Ontario.

I'm lost on where the harm to hockey is when it comes to opening up the USA Hockey Tier I National Championship to all comers.

To clarify - SSM is not a member of the JWHL. They play an independent schedule. And I respectfully submit that the Tbreds goaltender played well in the Minnesota District championship as SSM dominated play throughout the game. As we all know, in hockey a hot goaltender is a significant factor in a single elimination format (SSM is acutely aware losing in the USA U19 quarterfinals in West Chester, PA in 2008).

Could Minnesota send more than one competitive team to USA Hockey Nationals - based on talent? Yes, absolutely. Year in and year out Minnesota has 30+ D1 commitments and a bevy of very talented D3 players. No question about talent in Minnesota.

But as far as a concentration of talented U19 teams, the PWHL gets my vote hands down. On any given day their top teams would give their US counterparts fits - and then some. Any of the Can/Am tournments that include PWHL teams are flat out great hockey and incredibly entertaining to watch. What a model for developing and showcasing talent, as evident by their increase in college commitments year over year. Wow.

Regarding SSM - IMHO this is the strongest/deepest U19 team that SSM has assembled to date, and when their game is on they can compete with with best in North America. That said, there are some very talented teams that are also headed to Green Bay - so it should be a great week to watch hockey. Good luck to all of the teams competing!

SSM public commitments below (with more on the way):

Jr D - Molly Byrne - Mercyhurst
Sr D - Alyssa Gagliardi - Cornell
Sr D - Madison Kolls - North Dakota
Sr D - Madison Marzario - Rensselaer
Sr F - Kellie Dineen - Vermont
Sr F - Nicole Germaine - Minnesota State
Sr F - Amanda Kessel - Minnesota
Sr F - Elena Orlando - Quinnipiac
Sr F - Kathleen Rogan - Minnesota State
Sr G - Lauren Joarnt - Harvard
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

from Shattuck and Mission websites:
SSM vs LC 2 wins
SSM vs Mission 3 losses 1 win
SSM vs Colorado 4 wins 2 losses
SSM vs Thoroughbreds 5 wins (not relevant to this thread)

Mission vs LC 5 wins 1 loss
Mission vs NSA 2 wins
Mission vs LA Selects 1 win 1 loss 1 tie

I haven't seen list of teams going to Green Bay to see if Mission or SSM has played any other opponents. I am assuming LA Selects is in the mix.
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

And from LC website:
win and tie against Ohio Flames
loss to LA Selects
wins against Assabet, Polar Bears, NSA, Pacific Steelers and Washington Pride
 
Re: 2009-2010 Top U19 Teams

from Shattuck and Mission websites:
SSM vs LC 2 wins
SSM vs Mission 3 losses 1 win
SSM vs Colorado 4 wins 2 losses
SSM vs Thoroughbreds 5 wins (not relevant to this thread)

Mission vs LC 5 wins 1 loss
Mission vs NSA 2 wins
Mission vs LA Selects 1 win 1 loss 1 tie

I haven't seen list of teams going to Green Bay to see if Mission or SSM has played any other opponents. I am assuming LA Selects is in the mix.


From Chicago Mission website 2-2-2 Against Little Caesars

1- Mission
2-Little Caesars
3-Colorado
4-Shattuck
5-Assabet
6-LA
7-NSA
8-Conn.
9-
 
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