What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

2009-2010 Hockey East Playoff Picture

Re: 2009-2010 Hockey East Playoff Picture

BCWH Superfan joe said:
Does anyone have time to run out every possible finishing order scenario for the games this wkd.?
Click to expand...
Not me. There are too many scenarios possible, but I did look at several of BU’s:

There is a possibility of a 5-way tie for first if NU gets 2 SOWs over UConn, BU takes 4 points and PC and UNH take 2 points each. My quick (and I hope correct) breakdown of H2H shows NU and BU would be the first 2 teams eliminated, leaving the top three the same as a three-way tie:
BU: 4-4-4
UC: 3-3-6
PC: 5-4-3
UNH: 6-4-2
NU: 1-4-7
This would drop NU:
BU: 3-4-2
UC: 3-3-3
PC: 4-3-2
UNH: 4-4-1
This would drop BU leaving the 3-way tie I previously mentioned. In this case it would be PC 1st, UNH 2nd, UConn 3rd, BU 4th and NU 5th.

There is a possible 4-way tie for first between BU-UConn-PC-UNH if UConn wins one and loses one without shootouts, BU takes 4 points and PC and UNH take 2 points each. My quick (and again I hope correct) breakdown of H2H shows the same outcome as the 5-way tie with BU being eliminated first:
BU: 3-4-2
UC: 3-3-3
PC: 4-3-2
UNH: 4-4-1
This would drop BU leaving the 3-way tie I previously mentioned. In this case it would be PC 1st, UNH 2nd, UConn 3rd and BU 4th

There is a also a possible 4-way tie for first between BU-PC-UNH-NU if NU takes 4 points with one win in regulation, BU takes 4 points and PC and UNH take 2 points each. My quick (and again I hope correct) breakdown of H2H shows BU winning the top seed:
BU: 4-2-3
PC: 5-3-1
UNH: 3-4-2
NU: 1-4-4
This would drop NU:
BU: 3-2-1
PC: 4-2-0
UNH: 1-4-2
This would drop UNH:
BU: 2-1-0
PC: 1-2-0
BU is seeded 1st, PC is 2nd, UNH is 3rd, NU is 4th (and UConn 5th).

Sean
 
  • Like
Reactions: ARM
Re: 2009-2010 Hockey East Playoff Picture

Since it's Hockey East and not the Big East, if one team ties with UConn for the regular season title, the commissioner of the conference won't only travel to UConn to present only them with a conference championship trophy.
 
Re: 2009-2010 Hockey East Playoff Picture

Sean Pickett said:
freak, in the past the league has stated that they would drop the bottom team(s) first and then reapply the H2H with the remaining teams. See page two of this Hockey East <a href=http://www.hockeyeastonline.com/men/presarch/200803/wp030608.pdf>press release</a> which states that in three and four way ties the team with the worst H2H is eliminated first and then the H2H is reapplied for the remaining teams.

Sean
Click to expand...

I would note that is a men's press release, and the league does not always apply things equally between the men and women (see shootouts).

However, in this case, it would actually make sense. As I noted the other day, there could be a situation where a team had the 2nd best combined head to head results, but still finish 3rd if the tiebreaker were applied as all others (to determine the higher seed/team).

So, good call.

In the end, I don't think it will matter too much. PC has the advantage in pretty much any scenario involving ties between 3 or more teams.

Also, I don't believe that it will even be an issue after next week. Last year, after all, it was possible around this time of the year to have had a 4-way tie for 2nd place.

The end result? There was one tiebreaker used, and that to determine 4th and 5th place between PC and UConn.
 
Re: 2009-2010 Hockey East Playoff Picture

--- #1/#2 Seed Lock - 30 (Can't be caught by #3) ---
--- #3/#4 Seed Lock - 29 (Can't be caught by #5) ---
PC 26 - 30 [1-5]
UNH 26 - 30 [1-5]
UC 26 - 30 [1-5]
NU 24 - 28 [1-5]
BU 24 - 28 [1-5]
BC 20 - 24 [6]
--- In - 20 (Can't be caught by bottom 2) ---
--- Out - 20 (Can't catch #6) ---
UVM 11 - 15 [7-8]
UMO 10 - 14[7-8]

UNH - 12 pts lost; 2 games remaining
UC - 12 pts lost; 2 games remaining
PC - 12 pts lost; 2 games remaining
BC - 18 pts lost; 2 games remaining
BU - 14 pts lost; 2 games remaining
NU - 14 pts lost; 2 games remaining
UMO - 28 pts lost; 2 games remaining
UVM - 27 pts lost; 2 games remaining

UConn max points corrected. Thanks, scrambled. Sorry, whoops, I must have dropped a pt for UConn's shootout win. So the 3-way tie scenario was valid for PC/UNH/NU and PC/UNH/UConn.
 
Re: 2009-2010 Hockey East Playoff Picture

just posting that my posts in this thread are incorrect. hockey east should really attach a faq on how to calculate their tiebreakers because their verbage is horrible.
 
Re: 2009-2010 Hockey East Playoff Picture

--- #1/#2 Seed Lock - 30 (Can't be caught by #3) ---
--- #3/#4 Seed Lock - 29 (Can't be caught by #5) ---
PC 28 - 30 [1-5]
UNH 26 - 30 [1-5]
UC 26 - 30 [1-5]
NU 24 - 28 [1-5]
BU 24 - 28 [1-5]
BC 20 - 24 [6]
--- In - 20 (Can't be caught by bottom 2) ---
--- Out - 20 (Can't catch #6) ---
UMO 10 - 14[7-8]
UVM 11 - 13 [7-8]

UNH - 12 pts lost; 2 games remaining
UC - 12 pts lost; 2 games remaining
PC - 12 pts lost; 1 games remaining
BC - 18 pts lost; 2 games remaining
BU - 14 pts lost; 2 games remaining
NU - 14 pts lost; 2 games remaining
UMO - 28 pts lost; 2 games remaining
UVM - 29 pts lost; 1 games remaining

With a win over UVM, PCs "magic number" to secure home ice and at least a share of the regular season title is 2pts (either won by PC, or lost by UNH).
 
Re: 2009-2010 Hockey East Playoff Picture

freak said:
With a win over UVM, PCs "magic number" to secure home ice and at least a share of the regular season title is 2pts (either won by PC, or lost by UNH).
Click to expand...
I think that's just their magic number regarding UNH. Given UConn could still get 4 points and win outright if PC doesn't win and UNH gets less than 4, the PC magic number has to include UConn on the "loss" side of the equation.
 
Re: 2009-2010 Hockey East Playoff Picture

and if uconn wins their remaining games as well as a pc win would mean uconn would host given their record vs. pc (1-0-2) (*including a unh loss)
 
Re: 2009-2010 Hockey East Playoff Picture

PC 30 [1]
--- #1/#2 Seed Lock - 28 (Can't be caught by #3) ---
--- #3/#4 Seed Lock - 29 (Can't be caught by #5) ---
UC 27 - 29 [2-5]
UNH 26 - 28 [2-5]
NU 26 - 28 [2-5]
BU 26 - 28 [2-5]
BC 22 - 24 [6]
--- In - 20 (Can't be caught by bottom 2) ---
--- Out - 20 (Can't catch #6) ---
UVM 11 [7-8]
UMO 10 - 12[7-8]

UNH - 14 pts lost; 1 games remaining
UC - 13 pts lost; 1 games remaining
PC - 12 pts lost; 0 games remaining
BC - 18 pts lost; 1 games remaining
BU - 14 pts lost; 1 games remaining
NU - 14 pts lost; 1 games remaining
UMO - 30 pts lost; 1 games remaining
UVM - 31 pts lost; 0 games remaining

PC locks up home ice for the conference tourney and the regular season championship with a win over UVM and UConn's tie with NU. The Friars lock up a bye for next week, and the semifinal/final round of the tourney will be held at Schneider Arena.
 
Re: 2009-2010 Hockey East Playoff Picture

PC 30 [1]
--- #1/#2 Seed Lock - 28 (Can't be caught by #3) ---
--- #3/#4 Seed Lock - 29 (Can't be caught by #5) ---
NU 28 [2-5]
UC 27 [3-5]
UNH 26 - 28 [2-5]
BU 26 - 28 [2-5]
BC 22 - 24 [6]
--- In - 20 (Can't be caught by bottom 2) ---
--- Out - 20 (Can't catch #6) ---
UVM 11 [7-8]
UMO 10 - 12[7-8]

UNH - 14 pts lost; 1 games remaining
UC - 15 pts lost; 0 games remaining
PC - 12 pts lost; 0 games remaining
BC - 18 pts lost; 1 games remaining
BU - 14 pts lost; 1 games remaining
NU - 14 pts lost; 0 games remaining
UMO - 30 pts lost; 1 games remaining
UVM - 31 pts lost; 0 games remaining
 
Re: 2009-2010 Hockey East Playoff Picture

so if bu, nu and unh all end up with 28 points, what will the final standings be and playoff match-ups?

should bc pull another upset and defeat unh this evening, that would leave just bu and nu, so same question; anyone know who would get the #2 seed?

thanks,
 
Re: 2009-2010 Hockey East Playoff Picture

BU wins and pulls into a tie for 2nd place with NU... UNH was 4-1-1 against NU and BU so I imagine they would get the 2nd seed with a victory over BC. With a loss UNH would be 5th (?)
 
Re: 2009-2010 Hockey East Playoff Picture

My reading of the Hockey East tiebreaker system is that if UNH wins, there's a 3-way tie, Northeastern is eliminated first, and then BU wins the tiebreaker against UNH (1-1-1 with a BU shootout victory). So BU is No. 2 no matter what. But I'm not sure if they "reduce the number of teams tied" from 3 to 1 when UNH has the best head-to-head record including just those 3 teams.

Ok, BU press release says BU only gets No. 2 if UNH loses. I assume my interpretation of the 3 way tiebreaker is wrong then.
 
Last edited:
Re: 2009-2010 Hockey East Playoff Picture

dave1381 said:
My reading of the Hockey East tiebreaker system is that if UNH wins, there's a 3-way tie, Northeastern is eliminated first, and then BU wins the tiebreaker against UNH (1-1-1 with a BU shootout victory). So BU is No. 2 no matter what. But I'm not sure if they "reduce the number of teams tied" from 3 to 1 when UNH has the best head-to-head record including just those 3 teams.
Click to expand...

do the shootouts count in the head-to-head?
 
Re: 2009-2010 Hockey East Playoff Picture

Gibber said:
do the shootouts count in the head-to-head?
Click to expand...
I don't know the answer to that question either. :p

I also don't know if "wins in conference play" means only regulation/OT wins or includes shootout wins (I'd been assuming the former).

Either the way, the language in the tiebreaker is open to interpretation.

But BU PR suggests UNH wins the tiebreaker with BU. I won't speculate any further.
 
Re: 2009-2010 Hockey East Playoff Picture

Yeah, my understanding is if UNH wins, they get 2nd seed, if they get a shootout loss, they get 4th and an outright loss they get 5th...
 
Re: 2009-2010 Hockey East Playoff Picture

So, if we were correct w/ the seedings, we have
1. PC -----
**4.NU___|
**5.UC___|

2. UNH----
**3.BU___|
**6.BC___|

?
 
Re: 2009-2010 Hockey East Playoff Picture

Gibber said:
So, if we were correct w/ the seedings, we have
1. PC -----
**4.NU___|
**5.UC___|

2. UNH----
**3.BU___|
**6.BC___|

?
Click to expand...


The way I read it, if BC wins, then PC would play them.

No. 1 seed Providence College and No. 2 seed University of New Hampshire have earned first-round byes and will compete the following weekend on March 6 in the WHEA semifinals, hosted by the Providence College Friars at Schneider Arena in Providence, R.I. The Friars will play the lowest remaining seed and UNH will play the highest remaining seed.
Click to expand...
 
Re: 2009-2010 Hockey East Playoff Picture

PC 30 [1]
UNH 28 [2]
--- #1/#2 Seed Lock - 28 (Can't be caught by #3) ---
BU 28 [3]
NU 28 [4]
--- #3/#4 Seed Lock - 28 (Can't be caught by #5) ---
UC 27 [5]
BC 22 - 24 [6]
--- In - 20 (Can't be caught by bottom 2) ---
--- Out - 20 (Can't catch #6) ---
UVM 11 [7]
UMO 10 [8]

UNH - 14 pts lost; 0 games remaining
UC - 15 pts lost; 0 games remaining
PC - 12 pts lost; 0 games remaining
BC - 20 pts lost; 0 games remaining
BU - 14 pts lost; 0 games remaining
NU - 14 pts lost; 0 games remaining
UMO - 32 pts lost; 0 games remaining
UVM - 31 pts lost; 0 games remaining

And we're set.

With a win over BC, UNH takes the #2 seed via a 3-way tiebreaker with BU and NU.

The first tiebreaker is the combined H2H records amongst the tied teams. UNH is 3-1-2 for 8 pts. BU is 2-1-3 for 7 pts. NU is 0-3-3 for 3 pts.

According to the PR that Sean Pickett found from the men's side of HEA, the bottom team is dropped in 3-way ties. That puts NU as the #4 team.

The tiebreaker then starts over with UNH and BU. The first tiebreaker is again H2H, and the 'Cats and Terriers went 1-1-1 during the season. The second tiebreaker is conference wins, and UNH has 13 to BUs 10.

UNH is the #2 seed and BU the #3.

dave1381 said:
My reading of the Hockey East tiebreaker system is that if UNH wins, there's a 3-way tie, Northeastern is eliminated first, and then BU wins the tiebreaker against UNH (1-1-1 with a BU shootout victory). So BU is No. 2 no matter what. But I'm not sure if they "reduce the number of teams tied" from 3 to 1 when UNH has the best head-to-head record including just those 3 teams.

Ok, BU press release says BU only gets No. 2 if UNH loses. I assume my interpretation of the 3 way tiebreaker is wrong then.
Click to expand...

For the purposes of tiebreakers, the shootouts games are considered ties. If you go to the HEA website and click on "Standings" at the top, beneath the standings it shows the H2H records of each team vs the rest.

As for the "reduce the number of teams tied" aspect, they want to eliminate one team, and then apply a conventional tiebreaker to the two remaining teams.

I had been under the impression that as with other tiebreakers, the highest team "wins" the tiebreaker, and then the process begins again with the lower teams.

But as Sean Pickett noted earlier in this thread, on the men's side of HEA, the bottom team is dropped, and the process starts over with the two higher teams.

This would seem to be the proper application, as otherwise a situation could arise in which a team could have the 2nd highest combined H2H results, but finish 3rd if applied to remove the higher team first.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top