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117th Congress: DEMS IN DISARRAY!!!111!!

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Handyman said:
You may not like Maher...but more people in this country think closer to him than think like to us. And his criticisms of us are on point. The Dems should be owning the Center at this point by default but we can't message for dick and when we have power we have no idea how to wield it. But hey we sure can make ourselves look like fools cancelling Abraham Lincoln or decriminalizing crime.

The Dems could choke away a 4 goal lead with 4 to play because they would spend too much time arguing about whether the score is culturally sensitive, worry beating a team that bad would hurt their feelings and then whining because they don't think the refs arent being fair.

You know what most people see when they see us...a bunch of pontificating No-It-Alls. They see what is happening in places like San Francisco and realize that isnt what they want in their town. They see what the Minnesota Department of Education (which is run by the Progressives) does here and want none of it. (they have basically destroyed in school discipline because they said it was disproportionate. So you know, just make it so students can do what they want! And yes Kepler, that is true its why my home district is going to have a double employment problem next year with the COVID burnout and why teachers in Saint Paul went on strike a few years back) They see all our good intentions become wasteful, bloated cash grabs and they see the same rot from within. They see a lot of talk but never any follow through. They don't trust us. And it isn't because they are all racist and it isn't because they are all bigots or even that they are stupid (though there is plenty of all that too) but we just spend too much time worried about things that most of the country just doesn't care about. We are all looking for ournext cause, the next way to show how ahead of the curve we are. Meanwhile we ignore the very things we platform on and get elected on.
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as a marginalized person, using this analogy, my house is on fire. Republicans are happily tossing gas and matches on the fire and are like "I'll do it again." Democrats, while not responsible for the fire, do shit like "what if we ran a visibility and awareness campaign to let everyone know your house is on fire?" without actually doing anything meaningful like call 911 or bring blankets and food or other needed assistance.
 
MissThundercat said:
as a marginalized person, using this analogy, my house is on fire. Republicans are happily tossing gas and matches on the fire and are like "I'll do it again." Democrats, while not responsible for the fire, do **** like "what if we ran a visibility and awareness campaign to let everyone know your house is on fire?" without actually doing anything meaningful like call 911 or bring blankets and food or other needed assistance.
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And the media runs around yelling, “Samesies!”
 
LynahFan said:
And the media runs around yelling, “Samesies!”
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Does it really matter if it is "Samesies" or not if in the end the house burns down? Do you think the now homeless person feels better because [insert Dem here] showed up for a photo op and railed about how to prevent this a day late? The person is still screwed either way the GOP is just honest about who they are.

See that is the Dems problem...they sure can tell us everything that is wrong and have a million ideas that might work but they don't have the game to close the deal. The old guard likes the status quo too much and the new guard often can't get out of their own way unless their name is AOC. They have spent almost my entire life allowing terms like "Progressive" and "Liberal" become slurs to the average person. They run from almost any sort of real adversity and think history is the ultimate judge. It isnt. We are living now and the Dems are showing that once again they are the kings of the regular season but choke when the games get serious.

I mean for fuck's sake the GOP literally has no platform. They have run some of the most mindless and stupid campaigns in political history...the type of stuff that is normally a joke and laughed off on Election Day. AND THEY FUCKING WIN! And it isn't because they cheat, it is because people would rather vote for the person that is going to shoot them in the face than the one who will stab them in the back. The Democrats have lost the blue collar union worker...TO A PARTY THAT HATES FUCKING UNIONS! They have lost the elderly to a party that denies them health care and openly said they should die to save the economy during a Pandemic. They lost women to a party that wishes they would go back to being Donna Reed and STFU about equality. They are so worried about making sure no one has ever made a mistake ever in their life that they forget that most Americans don't give a crap as long as they can make their nut each month. They never learn, they just repeat the same stupid mistakes every time they have a shot to make things better, they lose power and the GOP just gets handed everything they want. They are such spineless twats they can't even keep their caucus in line when literally the fate of Democracy is at stake. (which they spend hours telling us about so we keep the checks rolling in) All they can do is whine about Donald Trump and then hold hearings that go nowhere. At least when the GOP pulls that stunt people pay attention.

The Dems are too weak willed to honestly make a difference anymore. That is why people flock to strong man losers like Trump.
 
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I'm with Handyman, I think, at least in principle. One party is evil and the other is grossly incompetent. Sure, one is demonstrably worse. But we're collectively screwed either way as there aren't any adults left in the room.
 
Swansong said:
I'm with Handyman, I think, at least in principle. One party is evil and the other is grossly incompetent. Sure, one is demonstrably worse. But we're collectively screwed either way as there aren't any adults left in the room.
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The Dems are not "grossly incompetent." They are average. And they operate in an environment where 48% of the electorate is backing an actual fascist party. How are they supposed to govern effectively when half the country wants the end of democracy?
 
Kepler said:
The Dems are not "grossly incompetent." They are average. And they operate in an environment where 48% of the electorate is backing an actual fascist party. How are they supposed to govern effectively when half the country wants the end of democracy?
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Grow a spine, perhaps?

Maybe punch the bully in the mouth instead of wagging their finger yelling "don't do that?"

​​​​​Stop making excuses for cowards.
 
Kepler said:
The Dems are not "grossly incompetent." They are average. And they operate in an environment where 48% of the electorate is backing an actual fascist party. How are they supposed to govern effectively when half the country wants the end of democracy?
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If they weren't grossly incompetent at least 10% of that 48% would easily vote left. ffs Hillary lost to Trump and the Dems should not be in danger of losing the House.
 
Can’t believe I’m defending Kep, but I’m certain he’d want Dems to grow spines and punch mouths if they could. Manchin, Sinema, and to a lesser extent, conservative Dems in the House, all block any ambitious government spending. Pelosi, Schumer, are both bought and paid for, but they’re far to the left of the two Senators I mentioned. They can only prod and cajole the Manchins of the world so much. Manchin benefits politically voting against ambitious government spending, so that’s a basically impossible fix. We have people like Drew vote for Sara Gideon instead of Susan “democracy saver” Collins, and now it’s just a Sinema problem.
 
The thing I don't get is that the very people who criticize the Dems the most are the ones who turn around and object whenever we voice proposals for serious economic reform. That would break the logjam. The Dems are hemmed in because they won't commit to decent economic justice for fear of alienating centrists and their wealthy donors. So we continue with low energy leaders and policies that just nibble at the edge of the catastrophic transfer of wealth from the working class to the upper class since Reagan which drives every one of our internal crises.

"Do something!"

"NOT THE THING THAT WILL WORK!!!"
 
psych said:
Can’t believe I’m defending Kep, but I’m certain he’d want Dems to grow spines and punch mouths if they could. Manchin, Sinema, and to a lesser extent, conservative Dems in the House, all block any ambitious government spending. Pelosi, Schumer, are both bought and paid for, but they’re far to the left of the two Senators I mentioned. They can only prod and cajole the Manchins of the world so much. Manchin benefits politically voting against ambitious government spending, so that’s a basically impossible fix. We have people like Drew vote for Sara Gideon instead of Susan “democracy saver” Collins, and now it’s just a Sinema problem.
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Can’t believe I’m defending psych, but he nailed it. 10 out of 10.
 
rufus said:
You go to war with the Democrats you have, not the Democrats you wish you had.
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For sure. And so, they lost. Manchin was too weak of a link on the big, partisan stuff. The Covid relief package was nice, and the bipartisan (but mostly Democratic) infrastructure bill is a good starting point, assuming they pass a budget to implement it. That said, the climate/human-oriented social stuff stopped with Manchin. Sanders and Harris both went after Manchin in his home state. Manchin said “Fuck you. I’m going on Fox.” Game over.
He should be a solid vote for Biden’s judicial nominees, including the Supreme Court. If Democrats somehow hold the Senate in a Republican leaning midterm environment, Manchin can become Majority Leader, assuming he hangs on. That’s going to require a massive turnaround, or perceived turnaround, on inflation. With the way the world is currently set up, much of it not Biden’s fault, that’s not looking too promising.
 
Again, as a marginalized person:

I can respect the honesty of hard R "FOADIAF." I don't like it, but it's consistent, it's clear, it's direct.


I can't respect most Democrats' empty promises and empty symbolic gestures. They're like every cishet male who's wanted to date me. They promise the world and can't deliver more than 5 cents.
 
The problem you have Kepler is, you think because you are right (or we are right) that that somehow matters. It just doesn't. You are falling for the very trap the GOP lays for you...binary thinking. It works for them because their fans are ride or die and the middle will go with the prevailing winds. It doesn't work for us because there is a spectrum of belief even amongst our own caucus. We need to remember that such spectrums exist across the political landscape. You like to pretend The Center doesn't exist or that it is awful and terrible but The Center is how you win and the Dems are losing The Center.

The people criticize us not because we are wrong, but because certain issues matter more than others and we just always blow our wad fighting the fights the majority just seem bored with. The average person isn't as learned as us on a lot of things so they go with their gut or what they feel is the best option for them. Well gut feelings and perceptions are all about marketing and the GOP does that well while we can't even get out of the gate. Our messaging is terrible and we never really pump up the things we do well. We listen to the stupid comments made by the morons that are in the GOP tent, shake our head but never actually engage to the level we need to. We all look like Hillary Clinton at the Benghazi Hearings wondering what is going on because we know the truth. We then make the mistake in thinking everyone else does too.

We can't just ignore everyone who isn't where we are at on all the issues. We need to fight the fights we can win then Trojan Horse America back to reality. Otherwise we better pray Trump runs again because otherwise things are going to get real ugly especially if we don't get prices down.
 
Kepler said:
The thing I don't get is that the very people who criticize the Dems the most are the ones who turn around and object whenever we voice proposals for serious economic reform.
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We can't shut up the Qtards and their media driven shrieking, but we can talk about things that matter.

Your statement here ignores the people in this room who are not criticizing the Dems for what they stand for but for being disorganized, lacking unity, and for failing to communicates a clear vision that resonates with the majority of Americans.
 
burd said:
There are two different Americas, and Dems aren't very fluent in Ruralamerican.
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They were though. Once. The economic stuff hasn’t disappeared. Democrats’ policies still help them way more than the GOP’s garbage. You just have to find the right messengers. People who aren’t condescending fuckwads, so maybe you can pick off a few of them and win along the margins. And, not only that, but appear safe and meek, like make sure it’s clear to everyone you’re not a huge liberal, while still being a fairly huge liberal, like Jon Tester. White cishet male from Montana willing to throw down nearly $3.5 trillion of government spending. Helps keep the other side’s voters home.
Kep can manage and train the a—hat libertarians who tell everyone what it means to be a Democrat after converting later in life, because we need them too. I’ll work on the few apathetic Southerners who would/will vote Democrat if they were just more engaged in the process, rather than not vote at all. Like my wife. Win-win. Now, we just need people to convince voters like Drew that it’s irresponsible to tell Democrats what the Democratic platform should look like when he votes for Republicans.
 
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