117th Congress: DEMS IN DISARRAY!!!111!!

[unofan]

Bad intentions or not, it was good policy. I don’t think it’ll have any effect on shoring up seats. The only thing it’s knowingly, tangibly good for in this moment is securing the votes of Gottheimer, Suozzi, etc., on the twin bills in Congress, and YES- FUCKING YES- it’s worth sticking in there for that alone. SALT repeal can be worth it for THAT, and STILL be sh-tty policy at the same time. It’s a massive fucking tax giveaway to the rich, and a cursory glance of the research refutes every argument made on here, like “double taxation”, a “race to the bottom”, etc. Actual, real, middle-class families, who are represented by basically none of you on here, don’t benefit one iota. Under 3% receive anything from SALT repeal, and a family that does receives around $37.
I guess I’m a little shocked that in the 30 minutes of reading I’ve done on the topic, everything on this board in favor of repeal, or justifying as a somehow inherent “win”, can be so easily refuted. I’ll stand by my slap in the face to our party’s platform, despite the gains, and, in the case of retaining a House seat or two, potential gains.

Do you know how Steve King kept his seat relatively easily for so long despite literally never getting a single bill out of committee, let alone passed, and being a national embarrassment? Constituent service. He did the little things to take care of his district. He only got kicked out because the embarrassment finally prevented him from helping his district because he got kicked off his committees.

Do you know how Tom Miller has become the longest serving AG in the country despite having a D after his name in an ever increasingly red Iowa? Constituent service. He's made consumer protection his primary focus for 40 years, which is a smart call in a state with a lot of old farmers in it. And he's popular enough that the Rs either let him run unopposed or put up token resistance mainly to give some young politician experience in a statewide campaign (with the promise they'll get taken care of post- election).

You tell people "We repealed Trump's blatant attack on you and our state" because it's another notch in that constituent service belt. The policy itself doesn't matter, the overall impact of the decision doesn't matter, it's the fact that you can show voters you're helping and protecting them. And in the case of the SALT cap, you get the double benefit of being able to attack the other side for screwing them in the first place. Note, it's not Republicans arguing that the repeal of a policy they enacted is bad, it's the progressive think tanks wondering why no one ever listens to them. Because Republicans understand politics and don't want to call attention to it, while think tanks believe right makes might instead of the other way around.

 

[Drew S.]

I may be confused on salt cap. I make under 175 and still hit the cap with Minnesota taxes. Do I need tax relief? No. Should I pay less on taxes than people who make over 400k? I think so for sure. I don’t know if this would even help me

I think it definitely would help you. It helps my wife and I but the way I look at it is giving us some money back worth increasing the debt? I don’t think it is and the vast majority of the money will go to people far wealthier than us. It certainly increases wealth inequality which is the last thing we should be doing.

 

[psych]

Do you know how Steve King kept his seat relatively easily for so long despite literally never getting a single bill out of committee, let alone passed, and being a national embarrassment? Constituent service. He did the little things to take care of his district. He only got kicked out because the embarrassment finally prevented him from helping his district because he got kicked off his committees.

Do you know how Tom Miller has become the longest serving AG in the country despite having a D after his name in an ever increasingly red Iowa? Constituent service. He's made consumer protection his primary focus for 40 years, which is a smart call in a state with a lot of old farmers in it. And he's popular enough that the Rs either let him run unopposed or put up token resistance mainly to give some young politician experience in a statewide campaign (with the promise they'll get taken care of post- election).

You tell people "We repealed Trump's blatant attack on you and our state" because it's another notch in that constituent service belt. The policy itself doesn't matter, the overall impact of the decision doesn't matter, it's the fact that you can show voters you're helping and protecting them. And in the case of the SALT cap, you get the double benefit of being able to attack the other side for screwing them in the first place. Note, it's not Republicans arguing that the repeal of a policy they enacted is bad, it's the progressive think tanks wondering why no one ever listens to them. Because Republicans understand politics and don't want to call attention to it, while think tanks believe right makes might instead of the other way around.

You know Iowa better than me, so I’ll bow to your knowledge on that. That said, I think the vast majority of Americans don’t know how effective their lawmakers actually are in providing constituent services, and therefore, don’t vote based on that. The vast, vast majority of voters aren’t even affected by the SALT repeal/reform, so, I’m not sure of the effectiveness of such a message. I think Republicans’ message of “Tax breaks for billionaires, not for you” will resonate more with middle-class voters than “We’re getting Trump back for you”, considering tying Trump to Youngkin, Ciattarelli, etc., just proved to be a big loser a few days ago. You’re right that Republicans don’t give a fuck about being right, and they understand politics, so the hypocrisy of “Tax breaks for billionaires, not for you” will roll off their backs like their entire platform never happened. And, as a handful of nights ago showed, people aren’t voting with Trump and his policies at the top of their minds.

 

[dxmnkd316]

You know Iowa better than me, so I’ll bow to your knowledge on that. That said, I think the vast majority of Americans don’t know how effective their lawmakers actually are in providing constituent services, and therefore, don’t vote based on that. The vast, vast majority of voters aren’t even affected by the SALT repeal/reform, so, I’m not sure of the effectiveness of such a message. I think Republicans’ message of “Tax breaks for billionaires, not for you” will resonate more with middle-class voters than “We’re getting Trump back for you”, considering tying Trump to Youngkin, Ciattarelli, etc., just proved to be a big loser a few days ago. You’re right that Republicans don’t give a fuck about being right, and they understand politics, so the hypocrisy of “Tax breaks for billionaires, not for you” will roll off their backs like their entire platform never happened. And, as a handful of nights ago showed, people aren’t voting with Trump and his policies at the top of their minds.

No, it won't help the vast vast majority. But it will help in the suburbs which are currently the front lines.

 

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

House passes the big bill. Biden calls out how hard VP worked to get this done. I’m sure our resident misogynist will be along to tell us differently

Maureen dowd continues to have the worst takes and should be sent to the glue factory

 

[dxmnkd316]

I swear dowd is trying to fill the stable Peggy noonan is going to eventually vacate.

 

[Handyman]

House passes the big bill. Biden calls out how hard VP worked to get this done. I’m sure our resident misogynist will be along to tell us differently

Maureen dowd continues to have the worst takes and should be sent to the glue factory

I have an uneasy feeling...

edit: my unease is about what comes after Biden signs this. I have a feeling time will run out on the rest.

 

[psych]

No, it won't help the vast vast majority. But it will help in the suburbs which are currently the front lines.

I don’t think it’ll be nearly enough, so we’ll agree to disagree, but we’ve beat this horse to death.

RCP’s polling now shows Republicans ahead of Democrats on the generic congressional ballot, mirroring the RNC’s internal polling from a week ago or so.

 

[psych]

I have an uneasy feeling...

edit: my unease is about what comes after Biden signs this. I have a feeling time will run out on the rest.

I would think that if the BBB fails, it’s all on the centrists. Progressives took a leap of faith by giving up their leverage and advancing BIF.

 

[St. Clown]

You know Iowa better than me, so I’ll bow to your knowledge on that. That said, I think the vast majority of Americans don’t know how effective their lawmakers actually are in providing constituent services, and therefore, don’t vote based on that. The vast, vast majority of voters aren’t even affected by the SALT repeal/reform, so, I’m not sure of the effectiveness of such a message. I think Republicans’ message of “Tax breaks for billionaires, not for you” will resonate more with middle-class voters than “We’re getting Trump back for you”, considering tying Trump to Youngkin, Ciattarelli, etc., just proved to be a big loser a few days ago. You’re right that Republicans don’t give a fuck about being right, and they understand politics, so the hypocrisy of “Tax breaks for billionaires, not for you” will roll off their backs like their entire platform never happened. And, as a handful of nights ago showed, people aren’t voting with Trump and his policies at the top of their minds.

The Democrats had two options - reinstate the SALT deductions entirely, or find a tax to apply to the rich people in Red states because the whole point of removing the SALT deductions was to drive wealthy people out of Blue states. The whole point of the SALT changes under Trump was to make life harder for Blue state voters. The GQP didn’t care about budget balancing, or making their rich grift a revenue neutral event. They wanted to punish those states whose population would rather advance the country as a whole than promote Orange Fascism.

 

[Drew S.]

The Democrats had two options - reinstate the SALT deductions entirely, or find a tax to apply to the rich people in Red states because the whole point of removing the SALT deductions was to drive wealthy people out of Blue states. The whole point of the SALT changes under Trump was to make life harder for Blue state voters. The GQP didn’t care about budget balancing, or making their rich grift a revenue neutral event. They wanted to punish those states whose population would rather advance the country as a whole than promote Orange Fascism.

I live in a blue, very high tax state and there has never been more demand to live here. Housing prices have gone through the roof in the last couple of years. I think it’s silly to give away this revenue and it only benefits wealthy folks.

 

[psych]

The Democrats had two options - reinstate the SALT deductions entirely, or find a tax to apply to the rich people in Red states because the whole point of removing the SALT deductions was to drive wealthy people out of Blue states. The whole point of the SALT changes under Trump was to make life harder for Blue state voters. The GQP didn’t care about budget balancing, or making their rich grift a revenue neutral event. They wanted to punish those states whose population would rather advance the country as a whole than promote Orange Fascism.

Yeah, I was never arguing about the intentions behind the SALT cap put in place by Trump and Congress. Clearly the GOP doesn’t care about the budget. Not arguing that either. If their actual intention was to drive people out of blue states because of high taxes, they’re morons, because no one actually moves/moved based on that.
All I’m saying is Democrats in general don’t support tax giveaways to the rich, while repealing or reforming the SALT cap helped a minuscule amount of middle-class families, including in places like New Jersey. But, in order to pass their infrastructure/social infrastructure bills, they needed to include it to get Gottheimer, Suozzi, Sherrill, etc., on board. I understand that, and I support the inclusion of it for that reason alone. I disagree with the rest of the reasons provided here. I don’t think it’s a win for the party, partly because I think Republicans, if they have to message on it at all, will outsmart Democrats on it. If white suburban women really think Youngkin is better for education, or Ciattarelli, or ANY Republican for that matter, despite the clearly fucking pathetic excuses of policies, or lack thereof, by Republican candidates/politicians on the issue, they’ll be prone to fall for messaging by Republicans on SALT repeal as well. Time will tell.

 

[Swansong]

Cruelty was the reason for it, which is Trump's reason for anything. He didn't care if people moved or not and no one else behind it did either. It was pure punishment.

 

[Handyman]

I would think that if the BBB fails, it’s all on the centrists. Progressives took a leap of faith by giving up their leverage and advancing BIF.

That is why I feel uneasy. Look who we are putting our faith in...

 

[ScoobyDoo]

BBB will pass either stripped to the bone by Manchin or it will die. 50/50 right now.

 

[aparch]

Senator Josh Hawley continues to alienate his supporters: "Stop watching porn and playing video games, get outside and be a real man!"

 

[rufus]

Something tells me Josh just told us how he spends his free time.

And if anyone knows what being a real manly man is like, its Josh Hawley

 

[Slap Shot]

Senator Josh Hawley continues to alienate his supporters: "Stop watching porn and playing video games, get outside and be a real man!"

That won't alienate his base - the GQP has more closeted/hypocritical voters of various persuasions than the Dems by a long shot.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Senator Josh Hawley continues to alienate his supporters: "Stop watching porn and playing video games, get outside and be a real man!"

It's absolutely none of Josh Hawley's goddamn business what the average Michigan Tech student chooses to do with their spare time. ;-)

Also, he has the second most punchable face in America, right after Ted Cruz.

 

[Handyman]

Something tells me Josh just told us how he spends his free time.

And if anyone knows what being a real manly man is like, its Josh Hawley

I mean the man cried cause 7 hipsters held a candlelight vigil outside his house!! ALPHA!!!