11/7 - Will Lawrence Made Marian? Will Norwich be caught in a Nor'easter? SCORES!!

[jconnor]

Re: 11/7 - Will Lawrence Made Marian? Will Norwich be caught in a Nor'easter? SCORE

This time next week, EC can easily be 0-4. Instead of worrying about moving downtown, maybe they should commit to fielding a competitive team with the goal of a National Championship.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: 11/7 - Will Lawrence Made Marian? Will Norwich be caught in a Nor'easter? SCORE

This time next week, EC can easily be 0-4. Instead of worrying about moving downtown, maybe they should commit to fielding a competitive team with the goal of a National Championship.

They play Friday at the Domes vs. Cortland........

 

[dhammond]

Elmira moving to the downtown rink could happen as soon as next year:

http://www.mytwintiers.com/news/local-news/effort-to-bring-all-ec-hockey-games-to-first-arena

I'm on board with it. EC hockey needs a change. The Domes have long lost their luster.

I have to disagree. There are a lot of people unhappy about the move. It would alienate some longtime supporters. There are people who are saying they won't go to the Arena.
Also, the Booster Club is afraid they would not have a lounge available.
I can't see it happening because the college wouldn't be in control of everything at the Arena like they are at the Domes. We wouldn't have our choice of scheduling if the Jackals are still there.
I also don't think it will do a whole lot to bring in more people. The games we played down there before didn't.
Also, as far as new businesses resulting from it and revitalizing downtown, that was supposed to happen when the Jackals got there. We're still waiting.
I also don't think it will make any difference recruiting unless I am wrong and it does draw more people, but I don't think alienating longtime supporters is good.

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

I have to disagree. There are a lot of people unhappy about the move. It would alienate some longtime supporters. There are people who are saying they won't go to the Arena.
Also, the Booster Club is afraid they would not have a lounge available.
I can't see it happening because the college wouldn't be in control of everything at the Arena like they are at the Domes. We wouldn't have our choice of scheduling if the Jackals are still there.
I also don't think it will do a whole lot to bring in more people. The games we played down there before didn't.
Also, as far as new businesses resulting from it and revitalizing downtown, that was supposed to happen when the Jackals got there. We're still waiting.
I also don't think it will make any difference recruiting unless I am wrong and it does draw more people, but I don't think alienating longtime supporters is good.

Are you going to stop going if they move?

People that would stop supporting the team because they move to a different rink seems pretty childish.

The domes have long past their usefulness. Unless the college is going to spend some major $$$ to renovate the building they're going to keep losing out in recruiting battles. In this day and age who wants to travel 15-20 minutes to an off campus rink that is average at best.

If EC moved downtown it has one of the top 10 rinks in D3 again.

Maybe instead of worrying about where and when people can drink a beer during the game the real fans would be worried about what's best for the student athletes and making the program relevant again.

 

[dhammond]

Are you going to stop going if they move?

People that would stop supporting the team because they move to a different rink seems pretty childish.

The domes have long past their usefulness. Unless the college is going to spend some major $$$ to renovate the building they're going to keep losing out in recruiting battles. In this day and age who wants to travel 15-20 minutes to an off campus rink that is average at best.

If EC moved downtown it has one of the top 10 rinks in D3 again.

Maybe instead of worrying about where and when people can drink a beer during the game the real fans would be worried about what's best for the student athletes and making the program relevant again.

I'd still go if they played on Eldridge Lake. While obviously I could be wrong and hope I am, I just am not confident that it would help recruiting and rebuilding interest like you think it would.
Regardless of whether the people who would stop coming are childish, I would miss some of them.
My biggest worry is the scheduling. If the Jackals leave, that would alleviate a lot of that problem, but I'm worried the bad would outweigh the good.
Besides, how has it outlived it's usefulness? How is it average? It is still one of the top rinks in D3?
My feelings on this whole thing are mixed.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

I'd still go if they played on Eldridge Lake. While obviously I could be wrong and hope I am, I just am not confident that it would help recruiting and rebuilding interest like you think it would.
Regardless of whether the people who would stop coming are childish, I would miss some of them.
My biggest worry is the scheduling. If the Jackals leave, that would alleviate a lot of that problem, but I'm worried the bad would outweigh the good.
Besides, how has it outlived it's usefulness? How is it average? It is still one of the top rinks in D3?
My feelings on this whole thing are mixed.

....you need to get out more

 

[jim32]

Re: 11/7 - Will Lawrence Made Marian? Will Norwich be caught in a Nor'easter? SCORE

They play Friday at the Domes vs. Cortland........

nope.

Maybe instead of worrying about where and when people can drink a beer during the game the real fans would be worried about what's best for the student athletes and making the program relevant again.

It has nothing to do with that. Without the revenue generated from the lounge, the booster club wouldn't be able to support Elmira College athletics the way we have in the past.

....you need to get out more

I'm pretty sure not many college hockey fans have been to more rinks than dhammond....

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

It has nothing to do with that. Without the revenue generated from the lounge, the booster club wouldn't be able to support Elmira College athletics the way we have in the past..

Fair point. Have new and different ideas been discussed about how revenue could be generated if such a move happened and beer was no longer allowed to be sold during intermission at a place in the rink?

Also, does the lounge really generate THAT much money on a regular game night? I'm sure it's a decent number but I can't imagine it's anything in the four digits and anything less than a grand X the amount of home games that are played I feel could be made up in other areas if that's a factor into wanting to stay at the MAC.

 

[norm1909]

Re: 11/7 - Will Lawrence Made Marian? Will Norwich be caught in a Nor'easter? SCORE

[/I][/B]

They play Friday at the Domes vs. Cortland........

Potsdam finds Alumni Arena too cold? I know I do.

 

[Transplanted Tiger Fan]

Elmira College / First Arena

Elmira College / First Arena

This story resurrects itself every year. I suppose there are those who believe that if you say it enough, it will eventually become truth, which appears to be the city’s strategy on this topic. Full-disclosure up-front... I have absolutely NO inside knowledge on this topic... none.

The topic of Elmira College and First Arena probably requires a thread of its own so we can bring it up each year. It is a ‘hot topic’ here in the Southern Tier, with passionate views of both venues. I typed a multi-page reply last night mentioning the pros and cons on recruiting, facilities, attendance, and the big one... revenue, but come 1:30am, I decided not to click “post reply”.

And really-quick, in attempt to minimize conflict... Jim: Remy was referring to the Elmira College Women regarding the team playing at the Domes vs. Cortland on Friday, in response to jconner’s statement about fielding a competitive team with the goal of a National Championship. Elmira has one every year with the Women’s Hockey program. When it comes to recruiting for the Women’s team, the current facility does not appear to have any adverse effect, bringing-in high-quality talent year-after-year. I went-on for pages on recruiting last night, since there is more to successful recruiting than the facility... MUCH more, but I’ll leave that for another day.

To summarize my multi-page post last night in a few paragraphs, it all comes-down to revenue. Gate revenue, concession revenue, sponsorship revenue. There must be enough revenue to support the facility and the programs. I have heard that the Elmira Jackals and First Arena may be having a difficult time with that, with more-than-double the attendance, more-than-double the ticket price, well-more-than-double the concession prices, and around triple the number of home games.

If the Elmira Jackals do not ‘survive’ after this year, bringing the Elmira College programs downtown will not alleviate nor resolve any existing revenue situation for First Arena, and it will pinch the revenue for the College programs to anemic levels. If the Elmira Jackals do ‘survive’, bringing the Elmira College programs to First Arena will help First Arena, but do little for the College, especially when it comes to revenue.

It’s all about revenue, which I believe the College would see revenue come solely from gate sales at First Arena. So keep this in-mind when considering gate revenue... last year on December 6, there was an Elmira College Men’s game played at First Arena vs. Wesleyan, which was a free game... FREE... and attendance was listed at 941. The Women played the next day against Potsdam (which was also free) and attendance was 277.

I shall now put-on my flame-retardant suit, and leave it at that.

 

[dhammond]

....you need to get out more

Okaaay! Not sure where that came from. I get out plenty. Whatever. There are MANY rinks in D3 that are nowhere near what the Domes is.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: 11/7 - Will Lawrence Made Marian? Will Norwich be caught in a Nor'easter? SCORE

nope.

See Daves post.......

I'm pretty sure not many college hockey fans have been to more rinks than dhammond....

That's great and all, but unless you're stuck in the late 80's early 90's still, the Domes are not in the Top 10 rinks in DIII anymore....facilities, surface, crowd, ...the Domes are not what it once was.....or maybe still stuck on what they once were...not sure which is better....

Okaaay! Not sure where that came from. I get out plenty. Whatever. There are MANY rinks in D3 that are nowhere near what the Domes is.

Very true, but the teams who continually find themselves in the top of DIII are all above Elmira. Once again, if this was the early-mid 90's, sure. Just as I said above, Elmira would be a reach as a Top 10 rink now days. It's not to say the rink is a dump (I skate in Geneva 4 days a week)......but its a far cry from many of the new(er) DIII rinks. If Elmira wants to hang their hat on the Murray with no major improvements, it's not going to draw the kids who are also interested in other schools...

Having said that, just as Dave said, facilities are only a fraction of recruiting. The school needs to put money into a program. Recruiting, health facilities, training facilities, and all of the other "perks" DIII college hockey players can have. The question becomes are the Grade A recruits choosing 1. NOT go to Elmira or 2. To GO to OTHER places?

And Dave, while the attendance might have been just under 1,000.....like I've said before, Elmira likes to over exaggerate their attendance numbers, so it's probably not that far off from playing a "Wesleyan" type team at the Murray. As a matter of fact just a few weeks later they drew less fans for a Salve Regina game back at the Domes. This isn't Utica. You're not going to get 3,000+ for a no-name non-conference game yet or probably ever. You get some big conference games down at First Arena, people will get involved.

 

[norm1909]

Re: 11/7 - Will Lawrence Made Marian? Will Norwich be caught in a Nor'easter? SCORE

See Daves post.......



That's great and all, but unless you're stuck in the late 80's early 90's still, the Domes are not in the Top 10 rinks in DIII anymore....facilities, surface, crowd, ...the Domes are not what it once was.....or maybe still stuck on what they once were...not sure which is better....


Very true, but the teams who continually find themselves in the top of DIII are all above Elmira. Once again, if this was the early-mid 90's, sure. Just as I said above, Elmira would be a reach as a Top 10 rink now days. It's not to say the rink is a dump (I skate in Geneva 4 days a week)......but its a far cry from many of the new(er) DIII rinks. If Elmira wants to hang their hat on the Murray with no major improvements, it's not going to draw the kids who are also interested in other schools...

Having said that, just as Dave said, facilities are only a fraction of recruiting. The school needs to put money into a program. Recruiting, health facilities, training facilities, and all of the other "perks" DIII college hockey players can have. The question becomes are the Grade A recruits choosing 1. NOT go to Elmira or 2. To GO to OTHER places?

And Dave, while the attendance might have been just under 1,000.....like I've said before, Elmira likes to over exaggerate their attendance numbers, so it's probably not that far off from playing a "Wesleyan" type team at the Murray. As a matter of fact just a few weeks later they drew less fans for a Salve Regina game back at the Domes. This isn't Utica. You're not going to get 3,000+ for a no-name non-conference game yet or probably ever. You get some big conference games down at First Arena, people will get involved.

I tease, play devil's advocate, etc - but in all seriousness - the above is Very well said and spot on!

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: 11/7 - Will Lawrence Made Marian? Will Norwich be caught in a Nor'easter? SCORE

Elmira/Utica has all the makings of what could be the next good rivalry with the occurrences of the last few years.

Start playing that game downtown, get the students involved and promote the heck out of it. Utica will bring some fans and that could turn into a new age of what Elmira/Plattsburgh and Elmira/RIT used to be.

 

[dhammond]

Re: 11/7 - Will Lawrence Made Marian? Will Norwich be caught in a Nor'easter? SCORE

If the move happens, I certainly hope I'm wrong. I think there's more to it than facilities as to why Elmira doesn't win the recruiting wars, but I'll not delve into that.
There is a lot to consider, a lot of implications. Like I said, my biggest worry is the scheduling if the Jackals are still here

 

[norm1909]

Re: 11/7 - Will Lawrence Made Marian? Will Norwich be caught in a Nor'easter? SCORE

If the move happens, I certainly hope I'm wrong. I think there's more to it than facilities as to why Elmira doesn't win the recruiting wars, but I'll not delve into that.
There is a lot to consider, a lot of implications. Like I said, my biggest worry is the scheduling if the Jackals are still here

Certainly there is more to it than facilities - BUT - that (facilities) is a significant part of the "first impression", in my world (the world of business), it is referred to as the "Pride of Ownership" factor and for some it has a direct impact (i.e. I don't like what I see) and for others subliminal (i.e. something just doesn't feel right) - but everyone experiences it.

 

[UCBadger]

Re: 11/7 - Will Lawrence Made Marian? Will Norwich be caught in a Nor'easter? SCORE

Which do you think will have the larger effect......Leave the Domes or lose the freshman beanies?

 

[norm1909]

Re: 11/7 - Will Lawrence Made Marian? Will Norwich be caught in a Nor'easter? SCORE

Which do you think will have the larger effect......Leave the Domes or lose the freshman beanies?

Beanies?

 

[bakdraft21]

Re: 11/7 - Will Lawrence Made Marian? Will Norwich be caught in a Nor'easter? SCORE

Beanies?

I still have my Elmira beanie from 83', didnt wear very much thats for sure