0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

[Handyman]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Seriously people in here need to learn to read...

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Seriously people in here need to learn to read...

I'm an NPC. I don't know how.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Or Brent could stop ****ting up every thread.

 

[The Rube]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Or Brent could stop ****ting up every thread.

I'm free to voice my opinion, which may differ from yours, which you are stating is "****ting up every thread." Far from true, btw. Show me facts. And studies. And scientists. And researchers. Show me where they back your statement up.

 

[Handyman]

Or Brent could stop ****ting up every thread.

What he said was pretty easy to understand until you and Rufus decided to ignore what he posted so you could spout your talking points.

The only ones screwing up every thread are the ones reading half a post and then getting on soapboxes. At least Scooby is in the conversation the rest of you are just trolling from the cheap seats.

You will of course deny and deflect so I am not even sure why I responded to you but whatever.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Oh look Handy is defending Brent's trolling again, how shocking.

I'm free to voice my opinion, which may differ from yours, which you are stating is "****ting up every thread." Far from true, btw. Show me facts. And studies. And scientists. And researchers. Show me where they back your statement up.

All you have to do is look up the gun deaths of every other developed country compared to USA. And then look at the laws of those countries vs ours.

From there we can either say, "gee our gun laws are so great despite all evidence proving otherwise" or we can try to enact change.

 

[The Rube]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Oh look Handy is defending Brent's trolling again, how shocking.

Who's trolling? I'm stating what I think. Oh, wait, it's trolling because you happen to disagree with what I say. How about engaging in discussion, as much as it may pain you. I will give Scoobs credit in stating his opinion and discussing things.

And if YOU HAVEN'T NOTICED, I've suggested quite a few changes in our gun laws.

 

[busterman62]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Fine, don't believe me. Even if I presented a full demonstration of facts and data, and polls of people, I doubt you'd believe me anyway.

Statistics can be made to prove anything - even the truth. ~Author Unknown
There are two kinds of statistics, the kind you look up and the kind you make up. ~Rex Stout, Death of a Doxy
Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are pliable. ~Mark Twain

This article is a good read concerning gun statistics. TMWDR: Both sides pick and choose the statistics to say whatever they want them to.

EXAMPLE: The only variable that can explain the high rate of mass shootings in America is its astronomical number of guns. This was based on this article but refuted by this one.

 

[The Rube]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Gun stats are tough because NRA shuts down any attempted study (something that Scooby and I agree on). So it's on to polling the people, which is unreliable: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...wners-thats-a-problem/?utm_term=.9f4ba6b23108

 

[busterman62]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

All you have to do is look up the gun deaths of every other developed country compared to USA. And then look at the laws of those countries vs ours.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3238736

 

[leswp1]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Won't happen in the next 25 years without a huge sea change in the attitudes of those protecting the gun manufacturers.

Perhaps that change will come from law enforcement. In Pittsburgh and in Thousand Oaks cops rushed in immediately and tried to do what they could to stop the shooters. One was killed in Thousand Oaks and a number were wounded in Pittsburgh, including one very seriously injured.

What this proves is even highly trained good guys with guns can't prevent massive casualties and sometimes will give their lives in the attempt. If law enforcement officers take up the cause of sane, effective gun control even reluctant politicians may need to finally offer more than thoughts and prayers.

Sadly though the carnage will need to continue and many, many more cops will probably die before even this happens. The shooters will learn that from one corner of the country to the other, cops are being instructed to engage immediately in a mass shooting incident, and we are seeing them do just that more and more. So the shooters are going to prepare for this and to be sure, at one of these incidents the number of officers killed is going to alarm even the most ardent opponents of sane and effective gun control.

The officer in Thousand Oaks was a near-30 year veteran of law enforcement, working for an agency with extremely high standards and extensive training. I can't imagine a more effective good guy with a gun. He saved lives but paid for our stupidity with his.

No its not. If they can ignore an elementary school full of children they will find an excuse or many to find a reason for why it shouldn't matter.

The predominant gun safety organization in the United States just vilified doctors for even bringing the subject up. I do not understand how these people can be mad or upset at liberals for saying they don't deserve their toys. They deserve to have them taken away. When safety, and common sense laws are the last things on the NRA and gun owners minds.

They care about neither.

If they cared they would be active in the political arena on fixing this **** so they can keep their toys. Instead their answer to the problem the last 10 years is conceal and carry and armed guards in elementary schools.

Rome is burning.

This has been on the Public Health sector's radar screen since I was in nursing school in 1978. Stats, private studies, etc all sorts of data. It gets no traction because money and capitalism is way more important than making intelligent public health decisions. (this goes for guns, lack of mental health care, healthcare, early intervention and other education- all of which impact how much we spend compared to other countries).

And the other side hasn’t changed? The NRA deserves some blame, but Bloomberg and the other anti-gunners are just as much if not more radical. Myself and other gun owners would like to see some things changed, the problem is that once that happens Bloomberg and co will be pushing for more extreme measures until guns are effectively banned. Like a lot of other issues there are too many extremists and the country suffers.

Please explain to me how this has anything to do with the point I made. The NRA used to be an awesome organization that promoted safety and encouraged it. They were also on board with regs that would promote safety in a reasonable way.... until they pimped themself out to the manufacturers. They have had an increasingly illogical campaign against promoting safety and simultaneously creating the narrative that you live in society that you need to carry to protect yourself. Honestly it is a sad statement that people are willing to believe that narrative against all the stats showing the risk increases when you do this. I see things like your post about needing to protect yourself from all the boogeymen and feel a sense of pity. It must be really lousy to live in that world believing that way.

Seriously people in here need to learn to read...

I was thinking that. I have no idea how to post memes in here but the ones with the 'what you were saying' 'what other people are hearing' would be beautiful.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

This article is a good read concerning gun statistics. TMWDR: Both sides pick and choose the statistics to say whatever they want them to.

EXAMPLE: The only variable that can explain the high rate of mass shootings in America is its astronomical number of guns. This was based on this article but refuted by this one.

So here's an interesting question. What is your opinion on the NRA waging a social media war against physicians who ask about guns in the home?

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Or Brent could stop ****ting up every thread.

Says Foxton 2.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Who's trolling? I'm stating what I think. Oh, wait, it's trolling because you happen to disagree with what I say. How about engaging in discussion, as much as it may pain you. I will give Scoobs credit in stating his opinion and discussing things.

And if YOU HAVEN'T NOTICED, I've suggested quite a few changes in our gun laws.

No, saying both sides are extremists because one side wants sane gun laws and the other is basically a bunch of right wing nutjobs funded by Russian right wing nut jobs and nazis, is trolling.

Telling everyone else to do research after you stated that you could totally own Scooby with all these hypothetical stats and figures that you don't have, and he supposedly wouldn't change his mind if those existed and is therefore one of the "extremists", is also trolling.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3238736

Good thing there's been more than one study that's ever been done on how our gun deaths compare to the rest of the developed world!

 

[busterman62]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

So here's an interesting question. What is your opinion on the NRA waging a social media war against physicians who ask about guns in the home?

Simple. They're wrong.
It's definitely a public health issue especially in the pediatric population. Just like a good pediatrician should talk about, vaccines,car seats, etc., they should speak with parents about gun safety.

 

[busterman62]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Good thing there's been more than one study that's ever been done on how our gun deaths compare to the rest of the developed world!

Woooooosh!

 

[leswp1]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

So here's an interesting question. What is your opinion on the NRA waging a social media war against physicians who ask about guns in the home?

Historically multiple organizations in health care have made statements- If you google it, pages and pages of different organizations. ANA, AMA, AFP, APA, multiple State organizations. I honestly doubt there is a single reputable entity that has not made a statement in support of measures to increase safety and promote prevention of gun violence. This has been an identified Public Health problem since before I went to school in 1978 and there has been an ongoing attempt to increase safety in regards to guns- how to prevent accidents, making sure people are aware of resources to help them know gun safety.

I have been an RN since 82 and an NP since 1988 and I know I screened for gun safety my whole time in practice- just like I screened for other safety issues. Way before the NRA decided to lose their minds. If I didn't screen I would have been considered negligent as the risk for accidental injury when guns in the house is historically quite high. A few years ago one of the pedi organizations put out a protocol that included asking about gun safety along with other safety issues (keep the cleaners locked under the sink, poison control #s, window safety when screens are in, lead paint...) and the Florida wingnuts actually passed a law banning the providers from screening. Of course if you didn't screen then you would be negligent as it was gold standard protocol.

Am I surprised they are doing this now? Not really. As the violence has increased they been increasingly illogical and strident when it comes to anything to do with safety. The more specific the suggestions for safety the more threatened they are and the sillier their response. Compound that with the current environment the Cheetoh in Chief has created with trying to delegitimize anything based in fact or science (including the antivaxer stuff) and they have a subset of people that are primed to believe them. THere is in fact a boat load of evidence that goes back decades regarding gun violence and safety. The implication there is none is another thing the sheeple will believe because it wouldn't occur to them to look for any evidence when they are told it doesn't exist.

My response to the tweet? Quoting again for those who don't tweet(I had to go looking, I don't do the birdie thing) :

Someone should tell self-important anti-gun doctors to stay in their lane. Half of the articles in Annals of Internal Medicine are pushing for gun control. Most upsetting, however, the medical community seems to have consulted NO ONE but themselves.

Probably one of the most ridiculous things they have managed to say since they have gone off the deep end which is a hard mark to beat! Stay in their lane??? Pretty ballsy statement to make. Medical folk are the ones who pull out the bullets, patch holes, pour blood into the patient to help them survive. When they don't survive then we are the ones who get to tell the families, deal with the aftermath for both the patient/ families and ourselves. If anyone should stick to their lane it should be the NRA. They should stay the hell out of trying to tell people public health issues don't exist or how to solve them.

I would love to see any one of the NRA spokespeople have the balls to sit down with the families and explain why their dead person is dead. Explain to them why there should be nothing done to prevent what is many times preventable because someone needs to be able to play with their toys. Someone shouldn't have to go thru a little inconvenience to make sure the rest of us are safe because that might mean someone might have to delay their gratification to own a weapon that could kill someone. There is no forseeable reason why it is an emergency that someone needs a gun. If you are that threatened call the police.

**I am not anti gun. I have no problem with people owning guns. I do have a problem with people who don't know how to handle them or people who are not stable owning them. I was shooting pistols before I was 10 yrs old but man did I have the fear of God put in me to always follow safety measures. With privilege comes responsibility.

this subject makes me a little hot under the collar. I figure if my Dad could have the expectation of being safe with a weapon when I was <10, then society should have no problem expecting the same for adults.

and medical folk are not known for their grammar- exhibit above

 

[leswp1]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Aren't you glad you asked??

 

[busterman62]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Aren't you glad you asked??

Well said

 

[The Rube]

Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

No, saying both sides are extremists because one side wants sane gun laws and the other is basically a bunch of right wing nutjobs funded by Russian right wing nut jobs and nazis, is trolling.

Telling everyone else to do research after you stated that you could totally own Scooby with all these hypothetical stats and figures that you don't have, and he supposedly wouldn't change his mind if those existed and is therefore one of the "extremists", is also trolling.
Good thing there's been more than one study that's ever been done on how our gun deaths compare to the rest of the developed world!

What I actually said, is that if I happened to have facts/studies/etc that stated something I think is true, Scooby would disagree with me. If I said the sky is blue, Scooby would say it's not. It's not about owning Scooby. It's my opinion that he'd disagree with me no matter what I said.

I never said both sides are extremists. Both sides do have SOME extremists, which many agree on that point.

Keep tryin', son.