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0 Days Since Last Mass Killing: Maybe It's the Person, Not the Gun...

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Re: 0 Days Since Last Mass Killing: Maybe It's the Person, Not the Gun...

As one Floridian, whose 14 yo daughter was shot in the back while running away, said '3D guns is the single most important issue in the country today'.

3D guns:
-circumvent any existing tracking processes
-can be downloaded by anyone - those with mental issues, a criminal record, children, terrorists.
-allow the avoidance of any sort of training measures - said to be important by even gun supporters here
-bypass existing security measures at most facilities

They are legal to download starting midnight tonight which gives congress no time to react. Indeed, the senate is evidently scrambling for a response...the house is at recess. However per CNN the organizations selling 3D have been downloading guns for days.
 
Re: 0 Days Since Last Mass Killing: Maybe It's the Person, Not the Gun...

I predict a sudden uptick in ER visits from people who don't understand the extremely short lifespan these 3D printed weapons will have.
 
Re: 0 Days Since Last Mass Killing: Maybe It's the Person, Not the Gun...

Simple solution. Possession of a 3D printed gun =life in prison.


What purpose would anyone need a 3D printed gun for that a normal gun wouldn't do? Only something nefarious.
 
Re: 0 Days Since Last Mass Killing: Maybe It's the Person, Not the Gun...

rufus said:
Simple solution. Possession of a 3D printed gun =life in prison.

What purpose would anyone need a 3D printed gun for that a normal gun wouldn't do? Only something nefarious.
Click to expand...

To say that they did it?

Why do people print their own books? Only for something nefarious?




While there will be advances in the 3D guns that are able to be produced, working 3D printed guns are limited: either you get a nice looking, non-functional, showpiece. Or you get a piece of crap that fires once at best. You're not going to be able to suddenly mass produce working AR-15's on your homemade printer. The ability to make 3D guns has been alive and well since the invention of the 3D printer. The ability to *share* those pre-made CADD files are what the US Government has been blocking.

There will be blueprints for various real-world guns, but the work that is needed to fabricate these weapons is more akin to a plastic model car/airplane builder. Odd shapes that need small plastic support pieces will need to be trimmed. And tolerances that can be achieved with the fine machining of metal work won't exist because instead of shaving metal, liquid plastic is being dripped onto successive layers of plastic. Additionally, the plastics used for 3D printing are either a softer/more workable plastic that will deform quickly under high heat (like a bullet firing), or a harder plastic which is more prone to cracking after being exposed to heat.

I take the stance that firearms are like cars. If you want them, get a license to operate them. Anyone caught using a firearm without a license is a [fine/misdemeanor/felony/progressive punishment/something].
 
5mn_Major said:
As one Floridian, whose 14 yo daughter was shot in the back while running away, said '3D guns is the single most important issue in the country today'.

3D guns:
-circumvent any existing tracking processes
-can be downloaded by anyone - those with mental issues, a criminal record, children, terrorists.
-allow the avoidance of any sort of training measures - said to be important by even gun supporters here
-bypass existing security measures at most facilities

They are legal to download starting midnight tonight which gives congress no time to react. Indeed, the senate is evidently scrambling for a response...the house is at recess. However per CNN the organizations selling 3D have been downloading guns for days.
Click to expand...

This has been around a few years and I’m surprised it’s just now getting attention. Another feather in the cap for our wonderful media. I wouldn’t trust them enough to shoot them.
 
Re: 0 Days Since Last Mass Killing: Maybe It's the Person, Not the Gun...

Drew S. said:
This has been around a few years and I’m surprised it’s just now getting attention. Another feather in the cap for our wonderful media. I wouldn’t trust them enough to shoot them.
Click to expand...
No the difference is they weren't allowed to legally publish the 3D printer blueprint for these guns for just any idiot to access. So yeah that's a new development and the media has been bringing it to ppl's attn. Also the last part of your post... that literally happened a couple weeks ago.
 
Re: 0 Days Since Last Mass Killing: Maybe It's the Person, Not the Gun...

5mn_Major said:
As one Floridian, whose 14 yo daughter was shot in the back while running away, said '3D guns is the single most important issue in the country today'.

3D guns:
-circumvent any existing tracking processes
-can be downloaded by anyone - those with mental issues, a criminal record, children, terrorists.
-allow the avoidance of any sort of training measures - said to be important by even gun supporters here
-bypass existing security measures at most facilities

They are legal to download starting midnight tonight which gives congress no time to react. Indeed, the senate is evidently scrambling for a response...the house is at recess. However per CNN the organizations selling 3D have been downloading guns for days.
Click to expand...

You're not wrong and I think my opinion on this has changed in the last number of months. I don't think this is a free speech issue either. We don't allow grenade launchers, we don't allow lawn darts, and we don't allow printing of money. Each is regulated in a different way. For grenade launchers, simple possession is a potential criminal offense. With lawn darts, we just banned the manufacture of them. And for printing of money, almost all of our money has the Eurion constellation on it. If you try to print something with that constellation, most modern commercial printers will cancel the job or just won't print it. Not sure if we could do a euroion constellation type of technology to guns or ammunition, but maybe that's what it comes to. I have no idea.

aparch said:
I predict a sudden uptick in ER visits from people who don't understand the extremely short lifespan these 3D printed weapons will have.
Click to expand...

No. Sh-t.

I wouldn't fire a 3D printed gun. Certainly not plastic or composite. A metal 3d printed gun is a different issue, but I'm still uncomfortable with it as we're still coming out of the infancy of 3D printing metals.
 
Re: 0 Days Since Last Mass Killing: Maybe It's the Person, Not the Gun...

rufus said:
What purpose would anyone need a 3D printed gun for that a normal gun wouldn't do? Only something nefarious.
Click to expand...

aparch said:
To say that they did it?

Why do people print their own books? Only for something nefarious?
Click to expand...

Didn't you just defeat your own argument?

If in theory, a 3D gun can only fire a couple of times and then fall apart...who would want one for just typical gun owner purposes? You can't go to a gun range. You certainly can't shoot a buck at 200 feet. As discussed, they are far more dangerous to keep around the family for one shot self defense in the home. But you certainly could use one for a hit or robbery. And in the end, wouldn't a 3D gun be easier to dispose of permanently after a murder than one made out of metal? They serve no legit purpose.

aparch said:
While there will be advances in the 3D guns that are able to be produced, working 3D printed guns are limited: either you get a nice looking, non-functional, showpiece. Or you get a piece of crap that fires once at best. You're not going to be able to suddenly mass produce working AR-15's on your homemade printer. The ability to make 3D guns has been alive and well since the invention of the 3D printer. The ability to *share* those pre-made CADD files are what the US Government has been blocking.

There will be blueprints for various real-world guns, but the work that is needed to fabricate these weapons is more akin to a plastic model car/airplane builder. Odd shapes that need small plastic support pieces will need to be trimmed. And tolerances that can be achieved with the fine machining of metal work won't exist because instead of shaving metal, liquid plastic is being dripped onto successive layers of plastic. Additionally, the plastics used for 3D printing are either a softer/more workable plastic that will deform quickly under high heat (like a bullet firing), or a harder plastic which is more prone to cracking after being exposed to heat.
Click to expand...

Because we know mobile phones still have an antenna and are the size of a toaster.
 
Re: 0 Days Since Last Mass Killing: Maybe It's the Person, Not the Gun...

Anyone who decides to make a 3d "gun" could just as easily make a clumsy shotgun out of pipe and crap from Home Depot. Or buy one of the 750 million real ones available in the United States.

It's like 22,322nd on the list of issues facing America.
 
Re: 0 Days Since Last Mass Killing: Maybe It's the Person, Not the Gun...

trixR4kids said:
No the difference is they weren't allowed to legally publish the 3D printer blueprint for these guns for just any idiot to access. So yeah that's a new development and the media has been bringing it to ppl's attn. Also the last part of your post... that literally happened a couple weeks ago.
Click to expand...

I think he meant he wouldnt trust the 3D gun enough to shoot it.
 
Re: 0 Days Since Last Mass Killing: Maybe It's the Person, Not the Gun...

The beauty of the printed firearms issue?

With the clear shortcomings of the units (catastrophic in-hand failures), the problem will be come self-correcting.

Harsh, but obvious.
 
Re: 0 Days Since Last Mass Killing: Maybe It's the Person, Not the Gun...

Or how about we just ban them just to be safe?
 
Re: 0 Days Since Last Mass Killing: Maybe It's the Person, Not the Gun...

dxmnkd316 said:
Or how about we just ban them just to be safe?
Click to expand...
Ban what exactly? The CADD files? Force printer manufacturers to create code that will recognize a gun and tell the printer not to print?


Say you did ban the CADD files; you're still going to have the individual part files leak out. People who really want to will still print pieces and assemble the gun.

And 3d printers, while becoming more popular, especially with model toy/figurine hobbyists, are still expensive toys. Filament to create the pieces has come down in price, and is reasonable, but a large amount of plastic would be needed for any rifle to be printed (and a rifle would have to be printed in pieces anyway).


To me, this is an overblown issue that should have been handled with much better care. Kinda like everything else the Trump administration has done.
 
Re: 0 Days Since Last Mass Killing: Maybe It's the Person, Not the Gun...

We ban printers from printing anything with the eurion constellation. So, yeah?
 
Re: 0 Days Since Last Mass Killing: Maybe It's the Person, Not the Gun...

dxmnkd316 said:
We ban printers from printing anything with the eurion constellation. So, yeah?
Click to expand...
While it's probably a quick cure to curb the casual printing, the problem I see is that anyone with CADD software can go into the file and edit out the constellation, circumventing the printer protection. It's not like a color copier where it's scanning a real world AR-15 (with the EURion Constellation stamped on it for example) and creating a copy of a physical item.

Unless they're going to get AutoDesk, Bentley Systems, and the other almost 200 CADD companies to get on board with using the same digital watermark system (from Digimarc) that Adobe CS (and newer) and Paint Shop Pro 6 (and newer) use to prevent the printing of bank notes from their software. But, that still doesn't stop the piecemeal printing of pieces and the user assembling all the parts. All it does is delay the inevitable.
 
Re: 0 Days Since Last Mass Killing: Maybe It's the Person, Not the Gun...

Huh, I had no idea what the eurion constellation was until 10 minutes ago. Learn something new everyday.

Also, 3D printed guns are a terrible idea.
 
Re: 0 Days Since Last Mass Killing: Maybe It's the Person, Not the Gun...

Handyman said:
I think he meant he wouldnt trust the 3D gun enough to shoot it.
Click to expand...

This and there is no real purpose for a 3D gun other than novelty, and I doubt that is the main purpose of the buyers....

I'm a gun guy, I guess, overall, and even I think this idea is ridiculous.
 
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