UNH- How Far West Do We Go?

[RENCEB]

So Mc gets rewarded for winning the Hockey East tournament and gets sent packing to Sioux Falls! That's freaking ridiculous

Let's remember that MC is ONLY in the tournament because of an historic performance by their goalie (most saves in a non-OT Hockey East final). They are the 15th seed. The NCAA tries to maintain seeding integrity (1 vs 16, 2 vs 15 etc) while considering possible attendance concerns. No. Dakota is in this region, so that addresses the attendance concern (unless Merrimack wins and they'd play the wiiner of PC vs QU. THAT would make for a pretty small crown out in Sioux Falls for the final).

 

[TheGrouchyCat]

So Mc gets rewarded for winning the Hockey East tournament and gets sent packing to Sioux Falls! That's freaking ridiculous

Why?

 

[FlagUp17]

Very little. Merrimack is an 8th place team that went on a once every 30 year run to win the league tourney. Merrimack ordinarily is a bottom tier HE team. It’s a great 2 week story but that’s likely all it is.

It’s titillating stuff for Buford, Meathead Elwood and the other low hockey IQ crowd, but most know better.

If UNH actually is modeling itself on Merrimack Hockey then that’s it for UNH.

I have to disagree here. I looked back at how UNH and MC have performed since 2018-2019 - the year both MS7 and Borek started as HCs.

Here is how they finished each season.

UNH	MC	Year
18-19	8	11
19-20	9	10
20-21	10	8
21-22	9	6
22-23	10	2
23-24	6	10
24-25	10	8
25-26	10	8

In totality, UNH averages out as a 9 seed across this range, while MC is at 7.88 (lets round up to 8). If you look at the post COVID years though (since 21-22). UNH still averages as a 9 seed, while MC improved to 6.98 (lets say 7 seed).

UNH has never finished higher than a 6 seed (in 23-24, where they technically tied as the 5) while MC finished 2 in 22-23, and in 21-22 they were 6, but tied for 4.

Also during this time, MC has 2 NCAA tournament appears, 2 appearances at the Garden, and 1 HE championship. UNH has 0 across this same time span. Heck... just looking at hosting a 1st round HE game, MC has done this 5 times, UNH only twice...

I looked a bit deeper at recruiting. Just looking at NHL draft picks (not the best way to assess recruiting success, but I think a decent surrogate).

UNH	MC
MacDonald (5th round)	Emerson (6th round)
MacPherson (6th round)	Hoskin (4th round)
Plandowski (5th round)	Nordberg (2nd round)

Both teams have 3 NHL draft picks this year. Nonetheless, MC has a 2nd and a 4th round pick, while UNH has two 5s and a 6. Again, I'd give the edge to MC.

All I'm trying to say: this isn't the "same old" Merrimack team that consistently finished 10-11 (or 12 when ND was around). Yes they aren't in the same echelon as BC, BU, etc. with regard to overall talent, budget, etc. Still... I don't think this is a once in 30 year thing for MC moving forward. As JB mentioned, two Garden visits in the last few years is something we all would be clamoring for. They almost won it in 22-23 as that was an OT loss in the championship game to BU.

If UNH wants to stay as a "budget friendly" hockey program, I think MC is a decent model to follow. Once we start winning I imagine more money will start to flow in. I wouldn't be surprised if the same won't happen for MC after this year as well...

 

[Darius]

I have to disagree here. I looked back at how UNH and MC have performed since 2018-2019 - the year both MS7 and Borek started as HCs.

Here is how they finished each season.

UNH	MC	Year
18-19	8	11
19-20	9	10
20-21	10	8
21-22	9	6
22-23	10	2
23-24	6	10
24-25	10	8
25-26	10	8

In totality, UNH averages out as a 9 seed across this range, while MC is at 7.88 (lets round up to 8). If you look at the post COVID years though (since 21-22). UNH still averages as a 9 seed, while MC improved to 6.98 (lets say 7 seed).

UNH has never finished higher than a 6 seed (in 23-24, where they technically tied as the 5) while MC finished 2 in 22-23, and in 21-22 they were 6, but tied for 4.

Also during this time, MC has 2 NCAA tournament appears, 2 appearances at the Garden, and 1 HE championship. UNH has 0 across this same time span. Heck... just looking at hosting a 1st round HE game, MC has done this 5 times, UNH only twice...

I looked a bit deeper at recruiting. Just looking at NHL draft picks (not the best way to assess recruiting success, but I think a decent surrogate).

UNH	MC
MacDonald (5th round)	Emerson (6th round)
MacPherson (6th round)	Hoskin (4th round)
Plandowski (5th round)	Nordberg (2nd round)

Both teams have 3 NHL draft picks this year. Nonetheless, MC has a 2nd and a 4th round pick, while UNH has two 5s and a 6. Again, I'd give the edge to MC.

All I'm trying to say: this isn't the "same old" Merrimack team that consistently finished 10-11 (or 12 when ND was around). Yes they aren't in the same echelon as BC, BU, etc. with regard to overall talent, budget, etc. Still... I don't think this is a once in 30 year thing for MC moving forward. As JB mentioned, two Garden visits in the last few years is something we all would be clamoring for. They almost won it in 22-23 as that was an OT loss in the championship game to BU.

If UNH wants to stay as a "budget friendly" hockey program, I think MC is a decent model to follow. Once we start winning I imagine more money will start to flow in. I wouldn't be surprised if the same won't happen for MC after this year as well...

Good stuff. I’d rather be Merrimack than UNH right now. Last night was part of a “once every 30 year run to win the league tourney” however. Lundgren is being compared to Chris Terreri on another thread and I thought that as well while viewing last night. UCONN led third period SOGs 22-7 and probably had another 22 blocked. The Whitcomb, Murtagh, Gardula line not scoring was borderline miraculous. Missing an empty net and still winning… serious positive juju.

I rooted for the Warriors all weekend and will in the tournament. I’m happy for Borek. He put together a team, has them playing well with confidence. Good for him.

 

[Snively65]

If you are the best team you will win the matchups you are given. Don’t understand when there is concern about getting a tough bracket. That to me, says you are concerned about your teams ability to win.

Agreed. And on a closer look, there is not a big difference in records of the eight #2 and #3 seeds and it looks like the Committee made an effort to maximize attendance, which I think is import’ant for the regionals.

 

[Carmine Scarpaglia]

So Mc gets rewarded for winning the Hockey East tournament and gets sent packing to Sioux Falls! That's freaking ridiculous

The reward for winning Hockey East was to get invited to the national tournament. #15 seed plays #2 seed, it's not that hard to figure out.

 

[Chuck Murray]

That UNH is spending less than MC on hockey is pathetic considering the UNH athletic budget is at least $6M+ on MC. However I don't see Borek constantly whining about MC. Instead if UNH had a 4 year run like MC, at this point we would all be over the moon.

There's a glistening nugget of insight shining through in your post that bears repeating. Dan has been consistent for years in preaching on this issue.

 

[Will]

I have to disagree here. I looked back at how UNH and MC have performed since 2018-2019 - the year both MS7 and Borek started as HCs.

Here is how they finished each season.

UNH	MC	Year
18-19	8	11
19-20	9	10
20-21	10	8
21-22	9	6
22-23	10	2
23-24	6	10
24-25	10	8
25-26	10	8

In totality, UNH averages out as a 9 seed across this range, while MC is at 7.88 (lets round up to 8). If you look at the post COVID years though (since 21-22). UNH still averages as a 9 seed, while MC improved to 6.98 (lets say 7 seed).

UNH has never finished higher than a 6 seed (in 23-24, where they technically tied as the 5) while MC finished 2 in 22-23, and in 21-22 they were 6, but tied for 4.

Also during this time, MC has 2 NCAA tournament appears, 2 appearances at the Garden, and 1 HE championship. UNH has 0 across this same time span. Heck... just looking at hosting a 1st round HE game, MC has done this 5 times, UNH only twice...

I looked a bit deeper at recruiting. Just looking at NHL draft picks (not the best way to assess recruiting success, but I think a decent surrogate).

UNH	MC
MacDonald (5th round)	Emerson (6th round)
MacPherson (6th round)	Hoskin (4th round)
Plandowski (5th round)	Nordberg (2nd round)

Both teams have 3 NHL draft picks this year. Nonetheless, MC has a 2nd and a 4th round pick, while UNH has two 5s and a 6. Again, I'd give the edge to MC.

All I'm trying to say: this isn't the "same old" Merrimack team that consistently finished 10-11 (or 12 when ND was around). Yes they aren't in the same echelon as BC, BU, etc. with regard to overall talent, budget, etc. Still... I don't think this is a once in 30 year thing for MC moving forward. As JB mentioned, two Garden visits in the last few years is something we all would be clamoring for. They almost won it in 22-23 as that was an OT loss in the championship game to BU.

If UNH wants to stay as a "budget friendly" hockey program, I think MC is a decent model to follow. Once we start winning I imagine more money will start to flow in. I wouldn't be surprised if the same won't happen for MC after this year as well...

Justin Gill was also a draft pick, 5th round by the Islanders in 2023

 

[unofan]

Agreed. And on a closer look, there is not a big difference in records of the eight #2 and #3 seeds and it looks like the Committee made an effort to maximize attendance, which I think is import’ant for the regionals.

The committee went with a pure S-curve except for swapping #11 Cornell and #12 Wisconsin to avoid the Dartmouth-Cornell matchup on the 6-11 line.

Which is fine, but they literally didn't make a single effort to maximize attendance.

 

[Chuck Murray]

I have to disagree here. I looked back at how UNH and MC have performed since 2018-2019 - the year both MS7 and Borek started as HCs.

Here is how they finished each season.

UNH	MC	Year
18-19	8	11
19-20	9	10
20-21	10	8
21-22	9	6
22-23	10	2
23-24	6	10
24-25	10	8
25-26	10	8

I looked a bit deeper at recruiting. Just looking at NHL draft picks (not the best way to assess recruiting success, but I think a decent surrogate).

UNH	MC
MacDonald (5th round)	Emerson (6th round)
MacPherson (6th round)	Hoskin (4th round)
Plandowski (5th round)	Nordberg (2nd round)

Both teams have 3 NHL draft picks this year. Nonetheless, MC has a 2nd and a 4th round pick, while UNH has two 5s and a 6. Again, I'd give the edge to MC.

I'm compelled to point out that while Plandowski was indeed a 5th round pick a few years ago (DRW), the Wings long ago relinquished his draft rights, and to the best of my knowledge never offered him a pro contract. Keep in mind as well, this is not an uncommon fate for 5th round draft picks (or 4th, 6th, etc.).

Not all draft picks are created equal. And once you get past the second round, there's quite a bit of educated guesswork and general projections involved ...

 

[JB]

There's a glistening nugget of insight shining through in your post that bears repeating. Dan has been consistent for years in preaching on this issue.

Chuck this is the place that of what we see of MS7, he is the weakest. What little we hear from him I can only imagine his pitch.

Recruit - I don't see a weight room in the Whitt.

MS7 - yeah, I mean, it's tough, we are working to fix that, and right now you got go to another building so we schedule time for that, it is over there

As opposed to something like:

New Coach - we use the Jerry Azumah performance center just across the street. Jerry was an NFL player and recently it had a $2M upgrade. We have a fantastic strength and conditioning program, there are lounges and study spaces there too. It is an excellent place to meet other athletes on campus, we have a gymnastics team. We do schedule times so the hockey team has run of the space and it is a great team building activity.

(I am not a salesman and still you can see the positive pitch)

 

[2013hockeyfan]

One thing of note re: Tortorella’s role as dir. of ops…I noticed in one of the team pictures he was in skates, which I don’t think is standard for the person in that role, suggesting to me he may take on more of a coaching role than the title suggests.

I suspect, without any direct knowledge, that the school and department had budgeted for a director of ops for the program and, rather than battle the school for the additional funding to add a coach or replace the director of ops role with a coach, which I assume would be paid more, they asked Torts if he’d want to do a blended role of both as he gets ready for retirement.

 

[2013hockeyfan]

Chuck this is the place that of what we see of MS7, he is the weakest. What little we hear from him I can only imagine his pitch.

Recruit - I don't see a weight room in the Whitt.

MS7 - yeah, I mean, it's tough, we are working to fix that, and right now you got go to another building so we schedule time for that, it is over there

As opposed to something like:

New Coach - we use the Jerry Azumah performance center just across the street. Jerry was an NFL player and recently it had a $2M upgrade. We have a fantastic strength and conditioning program, there are lounges and study spaces there too. It is an excellent place to meet other athletes on campus, we have a gymnastics team. We do schedule times so the hockey team has run of the space and it is a great team building activity.

(I am not a salesman and still you can see the positive pitch)

Now we are writing recruiting fan fiction…ok

 

[JB]

One thing of note re: Tortorella’s role as dir. of ops…I noticed in one of the team pictures he was in skates, which I don’t think is standard for the person in that role, suggesting to me he may take on more of a coaching role than the title suggests.

I suspect, without any direct knowledge, that the school and department had budgeted for a director of ops for the program and, rather than battle the school for the additional funding to add a coach or replace the director of ops role with a coach, which I assume would be paid more, they asked Torts if he’d want to do a blended role of both as he gets ready for retirement.

So.you are saying that MS7 is either:

Lazy - doesn't want to do the hard work to do his job right to get the benefits of having Torts (or anyone else) a named 3rd assistant using that money

Or

Incompetent - doesn't understand the value of having a named 3rd assistant

Or

Wants the excuse - everyone else has a named 3rd assistant. All while realizing others won't dig deeper to see not everyone has a Director of Hockey Operations.

 

[e.cat]

No, da “Committee” played it straight up in protecting the #1 seeds in the first semifinal games. But I think that they made up for it by some ridiculous match ups in the second semifinal games in each regional.

Which is all well and good but for attendance considerations.

 

[Potluck]

I am not a salesman and still you can see the positive pitch)

You certainly aren’t. God good, what a horrible pitch. Great team building, huh? So is ice fishing. Hard to imagine how your reference to the gymnastics team won’t get verbal commitments on the spot.

FYI, once you say “across the street” you lose the recruit who has options. Every time.

 

[Potluck]

https://x.com/mikemcmahonchn/status/2033595297251651658?s=46&t=pPratvtWStE4lAmbwtvSdg

For those of you that want to know what ails UNH hockey, open this link. McMahon is a very good reporter. He spoke to the agents and “advisors” that place the most promising recruits in programs. UNHs poor facilities are a strong indication the university is not committed to hockey. That’s a killer.

I’ve been saying this for years because I’ve been told to precise same thing from D1 assistants at other schools.

Who do you trust more? Buford and Elwood or a deeply connected college hockey reporter that actually did the work?

 

[Whalers]

From the home office in Scottsdale, AZ, David Letterman's Top Ten reasons why Merrimack College hockey is presently better than UNH.


#10 - Dunkin Donuts in the Lawler Lobby

#9 - The Lawrence / North Andover, MA metropolitan area offers FAR better access to NIL support

#8 - Fertile GBL (Greater Boston League) recruiting grounds a stone's throw away

#7 - Dodging traffic on Rt 114 translates to better decision making

#6 - Reflective silver sheeting on Lawler's low ceiling interferes with visiting team in-game adjustments (turtlenecks offer no protection)

#5 - Easy trips to Spanish Bodega's in Lawrence makes bi-lingual recruiting a breeze

#4 - Lawler hosts hockey AND basketball so Merrimack players know where all the 'dead spots' are located

#3 - They used to be the Warriors, and then changed to the Warriors (which one do you prepare for?)

#2 - Divine intervention - Pope Leo is a graduate

And #1 ……….

They just have a better coach!!! Is there a system we could use to locate a coach with the EXACT same skills?

 

[Robert Balin]

From the home office in Scottsdale, AZ, David Letterman's Top Ten reasons why Merrimack College hockey is presently better than UNH.


#10 - Dunkin Donuts in the Lawler Lobby

#9 - The Lawrence / North Andover, MA metropolitan area offers FAR better access to NIL support

#8 - Fertile GBL (Greater Boston League) recruiting grounds a stone's throw away

#7 - Dodging traffic on Rt 114 translates to better decision making

#6 - Reflective silver sheeting on Lawler's low ceiling interferes with visiting team in-game adjustments (turtlenecks offer no protection)

#5 - Easy trips to Spanish Bodega's in Lawrence makes bi-lingual recruiting a breeze

#4 - Lawler hosts hockey AND basketball so Merrimack players know where all the 'dead spots' are located

#3 - They used to be the Warriors, and then changed to the Warriors (which one do you prepare for?)

#2 - Divine intervention - Pope Leo is a graduate

And #1 ……….

They just have a better coach!!! Is there a system we could use to locate a coach with the EXACT same skills?

Great post....

 

[Snively65]

Which is all well and good but for attendance considerations.

Yeah, I mostly retracted my second sentence as they did a good job placing the #2 and #3 seeds to maximize attendance, although as someone else pointed out they only had to flip two of those schools from a pure NPI bracket standpoint.