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POTUS 45.64: Governance By Unhinged Twitter Rants

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Donnie's projecting again. Says people want to keep schools closed for political reasons, and feel it will help them in the fall elections.
 
rufus said:
Donnie's projecting again. Says people want to keep schools closed for political reasons, and feel it will help them in the fall elections.
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That worked quite well with his base at the beginning of the coronavirus pandemic. It planted the exact seed he wanted planted and probably only stopped working as well when enough people got sick or died in red areas of the country (well, not enough. Enough of them dying would be ALL of his supporters dying). This is the same move. And it will play very well with his base.
 
WeAreNDHockey said:
That worked quite well with his base at the beginning of the coronavirus pandemic. It planted the exact seed he wanted planted and probably only stopped working as well when enough people got sick or died in red areas of the country (well, not enough. Enough of them dying would be ALL of his supporters dying). This is the same move. And it will play very well with his base.
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So neither he nor his base cares about kids or teachers.
its sick that this plays well with them. I know it's no longer surprising...it's just sickening.
 
First Time said:
So neither he nor his base cares about kids or teachers.
its sick that this plays well with them. I know it's no longer surprising...it's just sickening.
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I saw an interesting Facebook thread from a few teachers.

Say we return to school, and a few weeks into the semester, a teacher isn't feeling well and tests positive for Coronavirus.

Do they make the teacher quarantine for 14 days? If yes, who pays for it: are sick days used or is that workers-comp? Or does sick days need to be used before worker-comp?

Does every student who interacted with that teacher need to quarantine for 14 days? classmates? Other teachers?

What about teachers who are married to other teachers? Does the significant other need to self quarantine, and what about any students that spouse interacted with?

if we test to ensure there wasn't spread among the class, who pays for the testing? Schools? The parents? What if they don't have insurance?



And... are you really going to get substitute teachers willing to come in and potentially catch Coronavirus on substitute pay?
 
aparch said:
I saw an interesting Facebook thread from a few teachers.

Say we return to school, and a few weeks into the semester, a teacher isn't feeling well and tests positive for Coronavirus.

Do they make the teacher quarantine for 14 days? If yes, who pays for it: are sick days used or is that workers-comp? Or does sick days need to be used before worker-comp?

Does every student who interacted with that teacher need to quarantine for 14 days? classmates? Other teachers?

What about teachers who are married to other teachers? Does the significant other need to self quarantine, and what about any students that spouse interacted with?

if we test to ensure there wasn't spread among the class, who pays for the testing? Schools? The parents? What if they don't have insurance?



And... are you really going to get substitute teachers willing to come in and potentially catch Coronavirus on substitute pay?
Click to expand...

i wonder if the teachers or their union has enough power to just say no if "forced" to come back.
 
Direct some relief money from next bill for aid to schools to improve their online education capacities.
 
First Time said:
i wonder if the teachers or their union has enough power to just say no if "forced" to come back.
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Depends on the state. AZ is a slave state ("right to work," LOL) so the teachers have no power. In civilized places where the teacher union is strongest (NY? CA?) the teachers probably have sufficient power that the state must make a good faith effort to accommodate them.

I suspect it maps almost perfectly to red/blue.
 
aparch said:
I saw an interesting Facebook thread from a few teachers.

Say we return to school, and a few weeks into the semester, a teacher isn't feeling well and tests positive for Coronavirus.

Do they make the teacher quarantine for 14 days? If yes, who pays for it: are sick days used or is that workers-comp? Or does sick days need to be used before worker-comp?

Does every student who interacted with that teacher need to quarantine for 14 days? classmates? Other teachers?

What about teachers who are married to other teachers? Does the significant other need to self quarantine, and what about any students that spouse interacted with?

if we test to ensure there wasn't spread among the class, who pays for the testing? Schools? The parents? What if they don't have insurance?



And... are you really going to get substitute teachers willing to come in and potentially catch Coronavirus on substitute pay?
Click to expand...

The answers to the questions may differ from state to state, and may be dependent upon the language of the particular union contract for that teacher, but there are a couple of things I know. First, the new laws they passed last spring mandate two weeks of paid sick leave if you get Covid. I think that applies to schools as well. They can't make you use your own paid sick leave as a substitute.

Second, it would be tough to establish a work comp claim. Injuries or diseases have to arise out of the work. Medically speaking it would be almost impossible to connect a teacher's contraction of the disease with his or her work. That is why in many places state governments changed the rules so that for certain employees, like medical workers or first responders, it is "presumed" that it is related to the work, and thus up to the employer to prove the employee got the disease elsewhere. I don't think teachers were included in those changes.
 
SJHovey said:
The answers to the questions may differ from state to state, and may be dependent upon the language of the particular union contract for that teacher, but there are a couple of things I know. First, the new laws they passed last spring mandate two weeks of paid sick leave if you get Covid. I think that applies to schools as well. They can't make you use your own paid sick leave as a substitute.

Second, it would be tough to establish a work comp claim. Injuries or diseases have to arise out of the work. Medically speaking it would be almost impossible to connect a teacher's contraction of the disease with his or her work. That is why in many places state governments changed the rules so that for certain employees, like medical workers or first responders, it is "presumed" that it is related to the work, and thus up to the employer to prove the employee got the disease elsewhere. I don't think teachers were included in those changes.
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Thank you.

With your experience dealing with the ins-and-outs of the law, is there an expiration of the 14-day leave (like there is the unemployment bonus)? And is it only good once, or if someone repeatedly tests positive at different times can still get paid to quarantine?
 
aparch said:
Thank you.

With your experience dealing with the ins-and-outs of the law, is there an expiration of the 14-day leave (like there is the unemployment bonus)? And is it only good once, or if someone repeatedly tests positive at different times can still get paid to quarantine?
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The paid sick leave requirement is set to expire at the end of 2020. It'll be interesting to see what happens assuming Covid is still going strong at that point, and dependent upon a new Congress.

I believe it's a one time deal. Thus, if you should come down with Covid multiple times I think the employer only has to pay you for the 14 days.
 
Kepler said:
Depends on the state. AZ is a slave state ("right to work," LOL) so the teachers have no power. In civilized places where the teacher union is strongest (NY? CA?) the teachers probably have sufficient power that the state must make a good faith effort to accommodate them.

I suspect it maps almost perfectly to red/blue.
Click to expand...

Actually some of the most successful teacher "uprisings" were in places like Oklahoma, Arizona and West Virginia during the last "completed" school year. Teachers in some of these places took on fights against the initial wishes of their unions.

The super spreader events that Aparch posted about WILL happen. It is not a matter of "if" it is only a matter of where and when if we open schools in some places like we opened bars and beaches. With some of the rhetoric coming out of the White House and a few governor's mansions, teachers should rightly be terrified of what life will be like for them around September and October.

I LOVE America.
 
SJHovey said:
I believe it's a one time deal. Thus, if you should come down with Covid multiple times I think the employer only has to pay you for the 14 days.
Click to expand...

This is correct, it is for a total of 2 weeks (14 days, 80 hours, etc). Technically it can be cumulative for more than one occurrence but the accepted policy is that you had to isolate or quarantine for 2 weeks anyway.
 
Kepler said:
Depends on the state. AZ is a slave state ("right to work," LOL) so the teachers have no power. In civilized places where the teacher union is strongest (NY? CA?) the teachers probably have sufficient power that the state must make a good faith effort to accommodate them.

I suspect it maps almost perfectly to red/blue.
Click to expand...

It isnt. Minnesota is Blue and I can tell you for a fact the union doesnt have the power to fight this though they will try. Thankfully we also have a governor who gets how math and facts work so we have a chance to not be ridiculously stupid. The only chance the union has is to protect teachers who choose to not show up for in person classes (like my girlfriend is planning to do) if they make that mandatory.

There isnt enough money to make the schools safe enough to get this to work even part time. When a school has a thousand students in a grade level there is no possible way to social distance. There arent enough rooms, there arent enough teachers and there arent enough resources. Even in smaller districts they have smaller buildings and even less access to those resources. Who is going to provide all the PPP? Most teachers I know already spend plenty on supplies (since certain members of our society dont value education...even in a state like mine where Education is thought of highly) now they are going to need to provide masks and sanitizer too? Sounds just stupid enough to be what certain members of our society believe.

Lets be really clear here...the only reason the GOP wants the schools open is so the parents can go back to work. They dont give a crap about the education of the kids or whether they are at risk. (they never have that is why they gut education every chance they get and now accuse teachers of teaching students to outwardly hate America) They know if class is online that means parents cant go into work and while some businesses have planned ahead on this many havent. They cant afford to let the economy continue to stay stagnant going into the fall so they would rather risk all the students and the teachers than force businesses to adapt. This is about day care for the students not about whether they are safe and learning at all. If it was they would be falling all over themselves to procure more rooms, get more teachers and enough PPP to keep the students safe.

My college is only going to light in person loads (only for classes that require on campus work like auto work or machine shop type stuff) because of the precautions that are needed. We have better access to resources and a more flexible schedule anyways yet my whole department isnt going back because of the risks and the hassle that would be needed to keep things safe. We could theoretically make it work but would rather just be safe. Meanwhile schools that have zero chance to be able to follow the suggested guidelines for safety are likely to be forced open so Target doesnt feel a pinch in its bottom line. This whole thing is a ****ing farce.

(Note: My info comes from first hand accounts of teachers in multiple districts, higher ups in district level unions, people in positions of some authority in a specific district, all the teachers in my program including our Chair amongst others. I am sure it will be refuted but these are people who would know)
 
Last edited:
Handyman said:
It isnt. Minnesota is Blue and I can tell you for a fact the union doesnt have the power to fight this though they will try. Thankfully we also have a governor who gets how math and facts work so we have a chance to not be ridiculously stupid. The only chance the union has is to protect teachers who choose to not show up for in person classes (like my girlfriend is planning to do) if they make that mandatory.

There isnt enough money to make the schools safe enough to get this to work even part time. When a school has a thousand students in a grade level there is no possible way to social distance. There arent enough rooms, there arent enough teachers and there arent enough resources. Even in smaller districts they have smaller buildings and even less access to those resources. Who is going to provide all the PPP? Most teachers I know already spend plenty on supplies (since certain members of our society dont value education...even in a state like mine where Education is thought of highly) now they are going to need to provide masks and sanitizer too? Sounds just stupid enough to be what certain members of our society believe.

Lets be really clear here...the only reason the GOP wants the schools open is so the parents can go back to work. They dont give a crap about the education of the kids or whether they are at risk. (they never have that is why they gut education every chance they get and now accuse teachers of teaching students to outwardly hate America) They know if class is online that means parents cant go into work and while some businesses have planned ahead on this many havent. They cant afford to let the economy continue to stay stagnant going into the fall so they would rather risk all the students and the teachers than force businesses to adapt. This is about day care for the students not about whether they are safe and learning at all. If it was they would be falling all over themselves to procure more rooms, get more teachers and enough PPP to keep the students safe.

My college is only going to light in person loads (only for classes that require on campus work like auto work or machine shop type stuff) because of the precautions that are needed. We have better access to resources and a more flexible schedule anyways yet my whole department isnt going back because of the risks and the hassle that would be needed to keep things safe. We could theoretically make it work but would rather just be safe. Meanwhile schools that have zero chance to be able to follow the suggested guidelines for safety are likely to be forced open so Target doesnt feel a pinch in its bottom line. This whole thing is a ****ing farce.

(Note: My info comes from first hand accounts of teachers in multiple districts, higher ups in district level unions, people in positions of some authority in a specific district, all the teachers in my program including our Chair amongst others. I am sure it will be refuted but these are people who would know)
Click to expand...

I don't know that it's as black and white as the feds wanting parents back to work, or parents wanting parents back to work, although I'm sure there is some of that.

There are a lot of parents out there overwhelmed by the prospect of trying to help teach their kids. They either don't have the time or skills to do so, and are rightly concerned about their kids falling behind. There are a lot of teachers that feel that way too, especially at the elementary school level.

That's the problem. We're looking at this with a "one-size fits all" approach that we too often take in this country, not only with covid but everything else. What will work for college kids doesn't necessarily work for elementary school. I have a close friend who teaches second grade and she told me that a significant percentage of her students simply lost three months of education last spring. They just stopped participating, for whatever reason, or couldn't keep up with the online learning.

You do that for a full school year, you might as well tell them to skip the year, play video games, and we'll see you back in the same grade next year (hopefully).
 
SJHovey said:
I don't know that it's as black and white as the feds wanting parents back to work, or parents wanting parents back to work, although I'm sure there is some of that.

There are a lot of parents out there overwhelmed by the prospect of trying to help teach their kids. They either don't have the time or skills to do so, and are rightly concerned about their kids falling behind. There are a lot of teachers that feel that way too, especially at the elementary school level.

That's the problem. We're looking at this with a "one-size fits all" approach that we too often take in this country, not only with covid but everything else. What will work for college kids doesn't necessarily work for elementary school. I have a close friend who teaches second grade and she told me that a significant percentage of her students simply lost three months of education last spring. They just stopped participating, for whatever reason, or couldn't keep up with the online learning.

You do that for a full school year, you might as well tell them to skip the year, play video games, and we'll see you back in the same grade next year (hopefully).
Click to expand...

We had six months to come up with an effective online learning program and completely blew it. There is no reason at all we couldn’t have had something reasonably decent in place for September.
 
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