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Help Scarlet Buy a New Car

S

Scarlet

Opposite Girl
So, my check engine light came on. Been here at the dealer for more than four hours. Recommended that I change a sensor that they think with 80% certainty is the reason. And after a thorough check of the car, they said my drive train needs to be replaced. Or the rear one anyway.

I have a 2005 Toyota RAV 4 with a little over 86,000 miles. Time to buy a new one as the amount of money I’ve put into this in the past eight months could have gone towards a down payment.

Looking for guidance on what to buy. I like the small SUVs but man, the 2021 RAV4 is really expensive. I refuse to lease.

Have at it!
 
Mazda CX5.

Or the CX30 if you want even smaller. Basically a Mazda 3 on stilts, much like the Subie Crosstrek is pretty much an Impreza.

The CX3 is even cheaper, but you get an SUV with even less cargo space than their Mazda 3 car, so I don't see the point.
 
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Scarlet said:
So, my check engine light came on. Been here at the dealer for more than four hours. Recommended that I change a sensor that they think with 80% certainty is the reason. And after a thorough check of the car, they said my drive train needs to be replaced. Or the rear one anyway.

I have a 2005 Toyota RAV 4 with a little over 86,000 miles. Time to buy a new one as the amount of money I’ve put into this in the past eight months could have gone towards a down payment.

Looking for guidance on what to buy. I like the small SUVs but man, the 2021 RAV4 is really expensive. I refuse to lease.

Have at it!
Click to expand...

Leasing vs. buying is just math. It's being honest about how long you plan on keeping a car and the related costs.

We've been getting an Escape the last few leases, and like them a lot. If one of those is in your final choices, contact me through wT. She knows why I would tell you that.

That being said- lets go back to your RAV- what's the specific code that set the check engine light? Some will "complain" about a sensor, when they are not normally open to wear out. Especially if the code is a catalyst efficiency code- changing the rear sensor to fix it will not do much, as that second sensor rarely wears out- and if it's actually broken, the system will tell you that.

And how in the world did they conclude that you need a partial rebuild of the drive train? For that, I would start with a fluid change in the rear differential before swapping the whole thing out.

Lets put it this way- it's odd that they would recommend a cheap fix for a check engine light and an expensive one for something they "found".

While I don't work for Toyota, I'm pretty confident that 86k miles is well under half way to the end of life. There's a lot left.
 
Scarlet said:
So, my check engine light came on. Been here at the dealer for more than four hours. Recommended that I change a sensor that they think with 80% certainty is the reason. And after a thorough check of the car, they said my drive train needs to be replaced. Or the rear one anyway.

I have a 2005 Toyota RAV 4 with a little over 86,000 miles. Time to buy a new one as the amount of money I’ve put into this in the past eight months could have gone towards a down payment.

Looking for guidance on what to buy. I like the small SUVs but man, the 2021 RAV4 is really expensive. I refuse to lease.

Have at it!
Click to expand...

Man, I thought I was doing well with my 2011 CR-V with just 82,000 miles on it.

All cars are expensive now that they're chock full of "necessary" gadgets and safety features (lane assist, adaptive cruise, etc). I still remember buy-one-get-one-free Yugo ads for $4999...

The last time we shopped, we thought we were looking for a Honda Pilot or a Toyota Highlander. As we were describing the ways we wanted to use the vehicle to the Toyota salesman, he said, "I really hate to break it to you guys, but you're describing a minivan." He was actually right - and we bought a Sienna from him a couple weeks later. Thank goodness we did - it has been the perfect vehicle for us! There have been dozens of times where my wife and I will look at each other and say, "I'm so glad we have this van." You just get more of everything (cargo room, seats, leg room, accessibility, and...I have to say it, cupholders) compared to an SUV and the price is basically the same. Are you really going offroading in it? Really?

I'm not sure what other options there are if you like the size of a small SUV but want something cheaper. A sedan is way less versatile. The only other body type that could compare would be a station wagon; there are a few of them still out there - but mostly from Audi, Volvo, etc, so not even close to "cheap." Mini Clubman? But without looking I assume that is way overpriced for what you actually get.
 
MichVandal - I'm not leasing because I don't want to have a car payment for the rest of my life. I haven't had one in 12 years and I really like that. When/if I buy, I'm hoping to pay for most of it upfront if possible.

In the past 8 months, I've had my brakes replaced, got four new tires, replaced the left front axel and sensor. I actually am OK with spending a certain amount every year to two years because I really don't want to deal with the hassle of buying a new one. If I hadn't done all that other work in the past 8 months, I would have had them do it no questions asked. Also - to answer to answer your other questions - they did whatever they needed to do to find out why that light came on. Said something had debris in it or something. With regards to the drive train, it's just the rear. Said replacing now would be cheaper than if it all fell apart and I'd have to repair the whole thing. They found that when they were looking into the check engine light issue. Also was recommended to change my battery. I am 50/50 on having the work done and buying a new car. I just feel these issues are coming with more regularity now and that's what is upsetting me and leading me to make the decision to buy a new one.

Part of the reason a lot of this is happening is because a) I park outside, b) I don't drive it that much. That's lead to a lot of rusting.

Was thinking of looking at a Honda CRV. Or a Nissan Rogue. On the way home, I was behind a Ford Edge (?). It was cute. Not sure I want a Ford though.
 
Is this an all-wheel drive? I can't imagine a drivetrain failing at 80,000 miles, no matter how little its driven. Drivetrain's supposed to be the pretty much indestructible part of the car. What exactly did they say was failing?
 
Scarlet said:
MichVandal - I'm not leasing because I don't want to have a car payment for the rest of my life. I haven't had one in 12 years and I really like that. When/if I buy, I'm hoping to pay for most of it upfront if possible.

In the past 8 months, I've had my brakes replaced, got four new tires, replaced the left front axel and sensor. I actually am OK with spending a certain amount every year to two years because I really don't want to deal with the hassle of buying a new one. If I hadn't done all that other work in the past 8 months, I would have had them do it no questions asked. Also - to answer to answer your other questions - they did whatever they needed to do to find out why that light came on. Said something had debris in it or something. With regards to the drive train, it's just the rear. Said replacing now would be cheaper than if it all fell apart and I'd have to repair the whole thing. They found that when they were looking into the check engine light issue. Also was recommended to change my battery. I am 50/50 on having the work done and buying a new car. I just feel these issues are coming with more regularity now and that's what is upsetting me and leading me to make the decision to buy a new one.

Part of the reason a lot of this is happening is because a) I park outside, b) I don't drive it that much. That's lead to a lot of rusting.

Was thinking of looking at a Honda CRV. Or a Nissan Rogue. On the way home, I was behind a Ford Edge (?). It was cute. Not sure I want a Ford though.
Click to expand...

So you don't answer this entire post- the most important question- would you rather get a new vehicle than repair this one? If "yes", then ignore the rest of this, and look into getting something new.

If "no", and repairing the car IS an option- what they did was plug a specialized computer into your car to read the codes that lit the check engine light. What I want to know is what those specific codes are- that will determine if their suggestion is good enough, or are they not telling you the entire story. The code will be a P#### thing.

And I'm really questioning whether the rear end of the car is bad or not- I've got a 20 year old Miata with over 200k miles on it- there are no real mechanical bits that are worn out. Unless it's in the suspension- driving the car little won't wear it out, nor will storing it outside. If the suspension is rusted in a bad way, that's a totally different question- and that would prompt me to get a new car ASAP. (on that note- I drove my Miata every single day for 14 years, and we use salt on the roads in the winter- the rear end is still in decent shape)

All of that is moot if you want a new car and don't want to repair the old one.

On a personal basis, I do wish you didn't have a fear for Fords. But I do understand it- there are cars we make that I would be weary of over the long run.
 
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In all honesty, I would prefer to not buy a new one. I do not mind putting money into this one. It's just that I feel these issues are coming with more frequency. I give myself a threshold of what I'm willing to pay and I've pretty much hit it. that being said....I've calmed down a bit and am now at 70/30 buying vs repairing. At the dealership I was 100% ready to buy. I'm going back to pick up the car and I will bring back that printout they shared with me with what is wrong with it and let you know what it says. What they recommended seemed more proactive maintenance. Which, again, I have no problem paying. But there has to be a point where the money I've put into an almost 16-year old car would be better off put towards a new one.
 
That depends on whether the problems are structural, or just wear and tear, and how much its gonna cost.

If its enough to make a decent downpayment on a new car, i'd opt for new also, which is what I did when my old car's rocker panels rusted out.
 
Scarlet said:
In all honesty, I would prefer to not buy a new one. I do not mind putting money into this one. It's just that I feel these issues are coming with more frequency. I give myself a threshold of what I'm willing to pay and I've pretty much hit it. that being said....I've calmed down a bit and am now at 70/30 buying vs repairing. At the dealership I was 100% ready to buy. I'm going back to pick up the car and I will bring back that printout they shared with me with what is wrong with it and let you know what it says. What they recommended seemed more proactive maintenance. Which, again, I have no problem paying. But there has to be a point where the money I've put into an almost 16-year old car would be better off put towards a new one.
Click to expand...

Maybe. A Toyota ought to get you to 200,000 miles, which, at your current rate would be in 2042, 21 years from now. If you buy, you'll easily shell out $25K today (after trade in).

A simple Net Present Value calc with inflation at 3% and a savings (ok, investment) rate of return of 8% says that the equivalent maintenance outlay would be approximately $2000 of today's dollars every year out to 2042. That is to say, you'll break even if you keep your $25K invested and shell out approximately $2k in maintenance every year for the next 21 years. If your average annual maintenance cost turns out to be less than $2k of today's dollars over the next 21 years, you'll come out ahead by maintaining the car you have.

Of course, the hassle factor comes into play, too. If your car is in the shop 4 times per year for $300 fixes, then yeah, financially it's still better to keep the car. But enough better to be worth that hassle? That's a value judgement for you to make.
 
LynahFan said:
Maybe. A Toyota ought to get you to 200,000 miles, which, at your current rate would be in 2042, 21 years from now. If you buy, you'll easily shell out $25K today (after trade in).

A simple Net Present Value calc with inflation at 3% and a savings (ok, investment) rate of return of 8% says that the equivalent maintenance outlay would be approximately $2000 of today's dollars every year out to 2042. That is to say, you'll break even if you keep your $25K invested and shell out approximately $2k in maintenance every year for the next 21 years. If your average annual maintenance cost turns out to be less than $2k of today's dollars over the next 21 years, you'll come out ahead by maintaining the car you have.

Of course, the hassle factor comes into play, too. If your car is in the shop 4 times per year for $300 fixes, then yeah, financially it's still better to keep the car. But enough better to be worth that hassle? That's a value judgement for you to make.
Click to expand...

This is great. Thanks for pulling it all together. It's helping me lean more 70/30 repairing vs buying.

rufus - thanks for those links about the types of cars!
 
Not having a car payment = paying more per month and in the end saving very little money compared with leasing and turning in your vehicle every 3 years for something newer and more reliable. Sure you can pay your loan off in 3 years and then drive without a payment for x number of years, but at what cost in repairs not covered by the warranty over that period of time? There is a lot of good info out there on how a lease can be better depending upon the situation. And had i not moved to Asia when my last lease was done, Nissan would have actually given me a deal on my next renewal based upon the quality of the condition of my "trade in" and not going over the mileage limit.
 
Slap Shot said:
Not having a car payment = paying more per month and in the end saving very little money compared with leasing and turning in your vehicle every 3 years for something newer and more reliable. Sure you can pay your loan off in 3 years and then drive without a payment for x number of years, but at what cost in repairs not covered by the warranty over that period of time? There is a lot of good info out there on how a lease can be better depending upon the situation. And had i not moved to Asia when my last lease was done, Nissan would have actually given me a deal on my next renewal based upon the quality of the condition of my "trade in" and not going over the mileage limit.
Click to expand...

The real problem with leases is that people get way too much car. If you go in getting a lease on a car you can afford, then the math plays out better. We've been getting the cheapest thing we could get for a long time, and vs. paying for a replacement.... yea.

But it very much depends on the situation, and people really need to run the math.
 
Slap Shot said:
Not having a car payment = paying more per month and in the end saving very little money compared with leasing and turning in your vehicle every 3 years for something newer and more reliable. Sure you can pay your loan off in 3 years and then drive without a payment for x number of years, but at what cost in repairs not covered by the warranty over that period of time? There is a lot of good info out there on how a lease can be better depending upon the situation. And had i not moved to Asia when my last lease was done, Nissan would have actually given me a deal on my next renewal based upon the quality of the condition of my "trade in" and not going over the mileage limit.
Click to expand...

That’s not true, at least for me. I’ve gone a few years at a time with just paying for an oil change. Which allows me to save money so when I have a real issue, I have money to pay for it. I don’t put it on my credit card and do payments. I pay it all off. Having a monthly car payment means I save less.

MichVandal - the code I got from them was P0171. And service advisor misspoke. It’s not the drive train. They’re recommending a rear drive shaft replacement.

Also, they determined what caused the light to come on - the mass airflow sensor had a lot of debris on it so they replaced it.
 
You don't drive much so buy whatever you like. I'd buy another Rav4, great New England car. My wife has a 21 Rav4, just traded in a 15 which we probably should have sold outright but... I like the 15 Rav4 better, not so many bells and whistles that eventually are going to break but all cars have that crap now. Toyota makes reliable cars, might look at all wheel drive Prius??
 
I would also prefer to take a new Japanese car. If it takes so much money to repair an old one that you can safely take a new car in installments. It will definitely last longer than a used one.
 
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