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US Foreign Policy 3.0: We're The Mets of International Diplomacy

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Kepler said:
I'll risk it with the Cafe. 90% of us are tracking and the others can't read.
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You could have posted that it happened, and maybe a link. It's not as if it's some kind of shocking happening. The ruskies are still blaming everyone else for their invasion and murder of so many people. How is it news that people are justifying it?

It's kind of funny that vlad and co are blaming the West and the support for Ukraine that this is dragging on- as if he really expected open arms as liberators. If anything, this will push Ukraine and their citizens much more to the West than vlad.
 
ISW calls it: Ukraine wins the Battle of Kyiv.

Ukraine has won the Battle of Kyiv. Russian forces are completing their withdrawal, but not in good order. Ukrainian forces are continuing to clear Kyiv Oblast of isolated Russian troops left behind in the retreat, which some Ukrainian officials describe as “lost orcs.” Russian forces had attempted to conduct an orderly retreat from their positions around Kyiv with designated covering forces supported by artillery and mines to allow the main body to withdraw. The main body of Russian troops has withdrawn from the west bank of the Dnipro and is completing its withdrawal from the east bank, but the retrograde has been sufficiently disorderly that some Russian troops were left behind.

The war is far from over and could still turn Russia’s way if the Russian military can launch a successful operation in eastern Ukraine. The current line of Russian occupation in southern and eastern Ukraine is still a significant gain in Russian-controlled territory since the start of the war. If a ceasefire or peace agreement freezes a line like the current front-line trace, Russia will be able to exert much greater pressure on Ukraine than it did before the invasion and may over time reassemble a more effective invasion force. Ukraine’s victory in the Battle of Kyiv is thus significant but not decisive.

The disorder of the Russian withdrawal suggests that at least some of the units now reconcentrating in Belarus and western Russia will remain combat ineffective for a protracted period. Russian troops attempting to refit after pulling back from around Kyiv will likely have to reconsolidate into their units, identify which soldiers are still present, sort out their equipment and assess its combat readiness, and generally reconstitute before they can even begin to receive replacements and new equipment and prepare for further combat operations.

Russian forces are likely abandoning the east bank of the Dnipro fully as well, withdrawing from around Chernihiv to the north and from Brovary to the east. Russian troops will likely seek to hold a salient around Konotop and Sumy long enough to allow their forces to complete their retrograde from near Kyiv but will then likely withdraw back to Russia from almost all their positions west of Kharkiv.

Moscow is attempting to concentrate reserves and some units pulled from the fight around Sumy to reinforce its offensive operations in the east but is encountering serious challenges in that effort. The Ukrainian General Staff reported on April 3 that Russian soldiers are resisting and in some cases refusing orders to enter or re-enter the war effort. The General Staff asserted that the two battalion tactical groups (BTGs) that moved from South Ossetia toward Donbas less than a week ago refused to fight and that plans to move them back to South Ossetia are in train.[1] The General Staff claimed that about 25 soldiers of the Russian 31st Separate Airborne Brigade refused orders to re-enter combat citing excessive losses.[2] The General Staff also asserted that commanders at various echelons in the Russian 3rd Motorized Rifle Division have refused to participate in combat operations.[3] We have no independent verification of these reports, but they are credible in light of the losses Russian forces have suffered and of independent reports of Russian soldiers killing commanders and commanders committing suicide from earlier in the conflict.

Russian efforts to advance its offensive operations in eastern Ukraine made limited progress in the past 24 hours. Fighting continues in Mariupol and on the Izyum-Severodonetsk axis.

Key Takeaways
  • Ukraine has won the Battle of Kyiv, and Russian forces are completing their withdrawals from both the east and the west banks of the Dnipro in disorder.
  • Russian forces retreating from around Kyiv will likely need considerable time before they can return to combat.
  • Incidents of refusals of orders to engage in combat operations among Russian units continue and may lead to the redeployment of two BTGs that had arrived near Donbas within the last few days to their home stations in South Ossetia.
  • The continued existence of an independent Ukrainian state with its capital in Kyiv is no longer in question at this time, although much fighting remains and the war could still turn Russia’s way.
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Kepler said:
The continued existence of an independent Ukrainian state with its capital in Kyiv is no longer in question at this time, although much fighting remains and the war could still turn Russia’s way.
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Russia is just backing off to re-attack. They have now presented a final solution to Ukraine, and it requires:
- Every Ukrainian who took up arms against Russia be eliminated.
- Every government official who opposed Russia eliminated.
- Anyone not murdered by Russia to experience the horrors of war as "punishment" for being Ukranian.
- Eradication of the entire Ukranian culture.

https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/st...08227202002947

This is a goddammed holocaust, and collectively NATO and the rest of the world doesn't want to get involved just quite yet. Again.
 
aparch said:
Russia is just backing off to re-attack. They have now presented a final solution to Ukraine, and it requires:
- Every Ukrainian who took up arms against Russia be eliminated.
- Every government official who opposed Russia eliminated.
- Anyone not murdered by Russia to experience the horrors of war as "punishment" for being Ukranian.
- Eradication of the entire Ukranian culture.

https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/st...08227202002947

This is a goddammed holocaust, and collectively NATO and the rest of the world doesn't want to get involved just quite yet. Again.
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Probably because they don't want to add "nuclear" as a modifier to "Holocaust"
 
aparch said:
Russia is just backing off to re-attack. They have now presented a final solution to Ukraine, and it requires:
- Every Ukrainian who took up arms against Russia be eliminated.
- Every government official who opposed Russia eliminated.
- Anyone not murdered by Russia to experience the horrors of war as "punishment" for being Ukranian.
- Eradication of the entire Ukranian culture.

https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/st...08227202002947

This is a goddammed holocaust, and collectively NATO and the rest of the world doesn't want to get involved just quite yet. Again.
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Always projection with the wingnuts.
 
Sounds like the Baltics are suspending all relations with Russia, expelling all Russian diplomats, and recalling their own. They're also closing their borders entirely with Russia. And Belarus

Lithuania is the first to announce. Latvia sounds like they'll be joining soon. Some very preliminary and unconfirmed reports of Estonia and Poland joining.
 
dxmnkd316 said:
Sounds like the Baltics are suspending all relations with Russia, expelling all Russian diplomats, and recalling their own. They're also closing their borders entirely with Russia. And Belarus

Lithuania is the first to announce. Latvia sounds like they'll be joining soon. Some very preliminary and unconfirmed reports of Estonia and Poland joining.
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Well, the average Russian citizen also wants those locations wiped off the maps as well.

https://twitter.com/bopanc/status/1510950346742509570
 
aparch said:
Oh for sure.

I was a little taken aback by the "Putin will give them a better life and education," like, really?
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Understandable. BUt again, if you asked 100 Americans what they thought, which is doable in under a day, I'm sure you'd get some pretty farking insane things too. The point is, don't get caught by media attempts to frame an entire country through on-camera interviews. It's propaganda. Because we have no idea what the other 99 people said and they could all be fucking appalled at this. Or, since it's Russia, have a very real fear of acute sidewalk poisoning. So everything coming out of Russia should be read with this in mind.
 
Swansong said:
One of the new silly right wing gripes is that "They" have orchestrated this war as a means to get "us" off fossil fuels.
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So wait...The Left, who can't even orchestrate a bake sale, orchestrated an entire war between two countries most don't care about, to try and make us energy independent? (something even The Right Wing says we need to do)

And this is a bad thing?
 
dxmnkd316 said:
Understandable. BUt again, if you asked 100 Americans what they thought, which is doable in under a day, I'm sure you'd get some pretty farking insane things too. The point is, don't get caught by media attempts to frame an entire country through on-camera interviews. It's propaganda. Because we have no idea what the other 99 people said and they could all be fucking appalled at this. Or, since it's Russia, have a very real fear of acute sidewalk poisoning. So everything coming out of Russia should be read with this in mind.
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In Russia they likely only interviewed people who they knew would say what they wanted them to say. But also remember, a lot of Russians have zero idea what is really going on much like the Trumpers. Even if they could see the truth through media and the Interwebs they wouldn't. It is the fatal flaw of Russians and has been since my great grandfather was a soldier there.
 
Handyman said:
In Russia they likely only interviewed people who they knew would say what they wanted them to say.
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Many, many years ago, my aunt and uncle were vacationing in Venice. It just so happens, there was a 60 Minutes crew there as well. They were looking for American tourists and when they found them, they asked them if they liked Venice.

My uncle did not. Gave various reasons why. They then asked him if he would be willing to be officially interviewed to appear on 60 Minutes. He said yes. (And they did keep that segment, so he did appear on 60 Minutes.)

The segment was all about how Venice is no longer a likeable destination for American tourists because it was dirty, smelly, overpriced, a tourist trap, etc.

My uncle was very honest with us when he told us this story. He honestly did not like Venice for the reasons he stated. However, he knew darn well that 60 Minutes was asking a lot of American tourists, and only followed up with those who did not like Venice. They ignored the ones who did like Venice.

News outlets around the world only interview people who they know will say what they want them to say...
 
Handyman said:
So wait...The Left, who can't even orchestrate a bake sale, orchestrated an entire war between two countries most don't care about, to try and make us energy independent? (something even The Right Wing says we need to do)

And this is a bad thing?
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I didn't say it was logical. I'd imagine there are infinitely better players to try this with. Like, wouldn't driving dissention among OPEC countries be more disruptive than Russia fighting <anyone>?
 
Swansong said:
I didn't say it was logical. I'd imagine there are infinitely better players to try this with. Like, wouldn't driving dissention among OPEC countries be more disruptive than Russia fighting <anyone>?
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Nah then you have to deal with the Israel issue at some point...which means the people who hate Jews have to pretend to love Jews while the Party with tons of Jews is then accused of hating Jews and Israel aka "The Jewish State".

Too many steps for the average GOPer to follow along too these days...
 
No matter how much you try, you will not get me to click on a link from Reddit. You are slowly turning into everyone's old uncle sending out mass emails buddy ;^)
 
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