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NCAA Tourney Team Selection Options

Fighting Sioux 23 said:
it was fun knowing you JohnsonsJerseys...I am now adding you to my ignore list.
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Someone please let FS23 he'll be missing out on the fun here going forward. Some folks just can't handle the facts I guess. Let them know I suggest friending Guy Gadowsky in my place. He makes similar arguments as FS23. He thinks PSU should be in the tourney at 10-12-0 just because they play in the BigTen.
"We're waiting for the NCAA committee to do their job." ~ Guy Gadowsky

J.D. said:
Translation: Michigan Tech has a winning record and should be in over Denver!
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Nope. Not once did I make a case for MTU in this year's tourney. The only way they were going to make it was if they finished the season with 21 wins and they were not even close to that total. Hitting 21 wins would have meant one of the following scenarios was true:
  • They swept Mankato the final weekend and won their first round WCHA series (four quality wins)
  • One win at Mankato, won their first round WCHA series and a WCHA semi-final win (four quality wins)
  • Swept by Mankato but won their first round WCHA series and the tourney semi-final and final (autobid)
I know what their record was and who they had beaten. I'm not going to come here and make a "homer" justification that they deserve it just because they have a lot of wins. They had 14 wins over horrible teams and had three quality wins all season.
  • Mankato 12/6
  • Bemidji 12/13
  • LSSU 2/23
That's not a tourney resume and nor is a losing record. Sorry DU. Sorry PSU. Them the facts folks... for those that are still around to read them anyway.
 
JohnsonsJerseys said:
Someone please let FS23 he'll be missing out on the fun here going forward. Some folks just can't handle the facts I guess. Let them know I suggest friending Guy Gadowsky in my place. He makes similar arguments as FS23. He thinks PSU should be in the tourney at 10-12-0 just because they play in the BigTen.
"We're waiting for the NCAA committee to do their job." ~ Guy Gadowsky


Nope. Not once did I make a case for MTU in this year's tourney. The only way they were going to make it was if they finished the season with 21 wins and they were not even close to that total. Hitting 21 wins would have meant one of the following scenarios was true:
  • They swept Mankato the final weekend and won their first round WCHA series (four quality wins)
  • One win at Mankato, won their first round WCHA series and a WCHA semi-final win (four quality wins)
  • Swept by Mankato but won their first round WCHA series and the tourney semi-final and final (autobid)
I know what their record was and who they had beaten. I'm not going to come here and make a "homer" justification that they deserve it just because they have a lot of wins. They had 14 wins over horrible teams and had three quality wins all season.
  • Mankato 12/6
  • Bemidji 12/13
  • LSSU 2/23
That's not a tourney resume and nor is a losing record. Sorry DU. Sorry PSU. Them the facts folks... for those that are still around to read them anyway.
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Johnson....

I'll play...a little....
To be truthful, I don't see very many good resumes out there. I assume you are ok with the following:
Minn, Wisc, Mich
NoDak, SCSU, UMD
Mankato, LSSU, BemSt
BC, Mass, BU?

Now, from there, the question is:
How do you fill the rest of the field?

Every other team you might use has holes in their case.
 
JJ, we need 16 teams. So which bubble teams are you advocating for?

Seems most are in agreement with UND and SCSU in Fargo. I would say if Bemidji beats LSSU make them the 3 in Fargo. If they lose make em the 4 in Fargo.
 
Here is where I think things roughly stand, if we assume the rest of the conference tournaments go chalk...

1. North Dakota
2. Boston College
3. Minnesota
4. Minnesota State Mankato
--------
5. Wisconsin
6. St. Cloud State
7. Massachusetts
8. Quinnipiac
--------
9. Minnesota Duluth
10. Michigan
11. Lake Superior State
12. Boston University
--------
13. Providence
14. Bemidji State
15. Denver or Omaha...I still can't decide
16. AIC

Potential brackets with this field...

Bridgeport:
2. Boston College v. 16. AIC (both bus trips)
8. Quinnipiac v. 12. Boston University (both bus trips)

Fargo:
1. North Dakota v. 14. Bemidji State (both bus trips)
6. St. Cloud State v. 11. Lake Superior State (SCSU bus trip, LSSU a flight regardless)

Albany:
3. Minnesota v. 13. Providence (PC bus trip, UMN a flight anywhere but Fargo)
7. Massachusetts v. 10. Michigan (UMASS bus trip, UM a flight regardless)

Loveland:
4. Minnesota State v. 15. Denver/Omaha (Denver/Omaha bus trip, Mankato a flight anywhere but Fargo)
5. Wisconsin v. 9. Minnesota Duluth (UW a flight regardless, UMD a flight anywhere but Fargo)

Numbers, I could be convinced to do some 3 seed swapping as you proposed.
 
I took a further look at the Omaha Denver situation.
Here's what I found:
Vs NoDak.....Denver 2-4-1 Omaha 2-3. Advantage Omaha, barely.
Vs SCSU......Denver 0-2. Omaha 1-1. Advantage Omaha.
vs UMD........Denver 0-2. Omaha 0-1-1. Advantage Omaha, barely.
Totals.....Denver 2-8-1. Omaha 3-5-1.
Head to head was 3-1-1 for Denver.
Thing is.....That's a slightly better record for Omaha against the top of the NCHC. They were also slightly better against the bottom.

I know it was 3-1-1 between the 2 schools. But, I just can't put enough stock in that 3-1-1 to overcome the rest. I really think, for me, that Denver had to last another 90 seconds last night, and beat UND 1-0. Sorry. If it comes to a NCHC #4, I would go for Omaha.
 
Numbers said:
I took a further look at the Omaha Denver situation.
Here's what I found:
Vs NoDak.....Denver 2-4-1 Omaha 2-3. Advantage Omaha, barely.
Vs SCSU......Denver 0-2. Omaha 1-1. Advantage Omaha.
vs UMD........Denver 0-2. Omaha 0-1-1. Advantage Omaha, barely.
Totals.....Denver 2-8-1. Omaha 3-5-1.
Head to head was 3-1-1 for Denver.
Thing is.....That's a slightly better record for Omaha against the top of the NCHC. They were also slightly better against the bottom.

I know it was 3-1-1 between the 2 schools. But, I just can't put enough stock in that 3-1-1 to overcome the rest. I really think, for me, that Denver had to last another 90 seconds last night, and beat UND 1-0. Sorry. If it comes to a NCHC #4, I would go for Omaha.
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The more I look at it, the more I agree. Great breakdown. If the NCHC gets a 4th team, it should be UNO.
 
Numbers said:
I took a further look at the Omaha Denver situation.
Here's what I found:
Vs NoDak.....Denver 2-4-1 Omaha 2-3. Advantage Omaha, barely.
Vs SCSU......Denver 0-2. Omaha 1-1. Advantage Omaha.
vs UMD........Denver 0-2. Omaha 0-1-1. Advantage Omaha, barely.
Totals.....Denver 2-8-1. Omaha 3-5-1.
Head to head was 3-1-1 for Denver.
Thing is.....That's a slightly better record for Omaha against the top of the NCHC. They were also slightly better against the bottom.

I know it was 3-1-1 between the 2 schools. But, I just can't put enough stock in that 3-1-1 to overcome the rest. I really think, for me, that Denver had to last another 90 seconds last night, and beat UND 1-0. Sorry. If it comes to a NCHC #4, I would go for Omaha.
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As J.D. has been advocating (actually advocating), neither DU nor Omaha can complain if they get left out. To anyone that knows anything about hockey, they are both obviously in the mix for an at-large spot. Heck, per CHN, they both would be in the top 14 (no way that actually happens IMO). But at the same time, they are both very much on the edge of the bubble. I think if QU loses, or Northern Michigan wins the WCHA, or Lowell wins Hockey East, both DU and Omaha will miss the tournament. If it all goes chalk, then I think it comes down to DU vs. Omaha for that last spot (sorry Army, although I think they too could make a decent argument for inclusion).

As someone who hates DU, I am all for putting in Omaha ahead of the Pioneers if it comes to it. : )
 
Would have been a lot cleaner had Omaha just taken care of business. I am struggling to get past Mike Kemp leading the committee and a regional being in Loveland. I personally think if you take one it should be Denver. As for Omaha, while it's not their fault, they did benefit from playing all those "home" games in the pod. Maybe the best solution here is to leave both of them out and simply figure it out. Whether that's another Atlantic team, UML if they make HE title game, or even dip back into the Bowling Green/Notre Dame pool.
 
Fighting Sioux 23 said:
Here is where I think things roughly stand, if we assume the rest of the conference tournaments go chalk...

1. North Dakota
2. Boston College
3. Minnesota
4. Minnesota State Mankato
--------
5. Wisconsin
6. St. Cloud State
7. Massachusetts
8. Quinnipiac
--------
9. Minnesota Duluth
10. Michigan
11. Lake Superior State
12. Boston University
--------
13. Providence
14. Bemidji State
15. Denver or Omaha...I still can't decide
16. AIC

Potential brackets with this field...

Bridgeport:
2. Boston College v. 16. AIC (both bus trips)
8. Quinnipiac v. 12. Boston University (both bus trips)

Fargo:
1. North Dakota v. 14. Bemidji State (both bus trips)
6. St. Cloud State v. 11. Lake Superior State (SCSU bus trip, LSSU a flight regardless)

Albany:
3. Minnesota v. 13. Providence (PC bus trip, UMN a flight anywhere but Fargo)
7. Massachusetts v. 10. Michigan (UMASS bus trip, UM a flight regardless)

Loveland:
4. Minnesota State v. 15. Denver/Omaha (Denver/Omaha bus trip, Mankato a flight anywhere but Fargo)
5. Wisconsin v. 9. Minnesota Duluth (UW a flight regardless, UMD a flight anywhere but Fargo)

Numbers, I could be convinced to do some 3 seed swapping as you proposed.
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I’d argue this bracket protects BC and Minnesota and screws UND. As much as you can anyway. The #1 and #2 regular season and playoff finishers from a conference should not be in the same region. BC shouldn’t have UMass, MN shouldn’t have Wisconsin and UND shouldn’t have SCSU in their region if you want a National tournament that will have the best teams in the final four.
 
It's not about protecting anybody. I agree that UND and SCSU shouldn't be in the same regional but if the committee follows through on what they said about being told to try and limit travel even more than usual this year...UND and SCSU in Fargo it is.
 
What is the rule on flights? Is it possible they have relaxed those for this one year? It's 500 miles from Madison. I'm all in for Wisconsin as the #2 in Fargo instead of St. Cloud if that's an option.
 
J.D. said:
It's not about protecting anybody. I agree that UND and SCSU shouldn't be in the same regional but if the committee follows through on what they said about being told to try and limit travel even more than usual this year...UND and SCSU in Fargo it is.
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Except what they have said and what they will probably do has nothing to do with putting together a championship that will determine a true national champion.

Saving a few bucks on travel shouldn’t be a determining factor. You’re right it’s what they will do. It’s wrong that they will do it.
 
How are they not determining a true national champion? All the best teams will be part of the tournament.
 
For what it’s worth, if you watched the NCHC final tonight you saw two really talented teams. I have a little bias but I’ll tell you that wasn’t the usual UND domination you normally see vs SCSU. And it wasn’t that UND played poorly at all. That was two very talented teams battling.

One of those two shouldn’t automatically be erased from the Frozen Four because of regional proximity.

And if my boys get sent to Fargo, no way no how is that the death sentence it was in years past.

Uphill battle because UND is very very good. But let’s mix this up just a touch and make it a little more interesting.
 
J.D. said:
How are they not determining a true national champion? All the best teams will be part of the tournament.
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I think in a year where conferences can’t play each other, the proximity solution sells things short.

Sorry, probably a little hyperbole there. Winner is still the national champion but putting top teams from the same conference in the same regional automatically eliminates those matchups.
 
I am just happy we are looking at a tournament this year. Not all of it will be "fair" but it never truly is. Maybe the committee will surprise us and not limit travel as much as we're saying. Maybe SCSU should have lost to UMD so UMD could be the 2 in Fargo ;)
 
J.D. said:
I am just happy we are looking at a tournament this year. Not all of it will be "fair" but it never truly is. Maybe the committee will surprise us and not limit travel as much as we're saying. Maybe SCSU should have lost to UMD so UMD could be the 2 in Fargo ;)
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Absolutely. Looking forward to a tournament regardless of how it goes down.

Well, we’ve shown being a #1 overall seed doesn’t work for us in the past. Maybe losing to UMD should have been the plan??

For what it’s worth, traveling in the pandemic is not as scary as the media would like to portray. I have traveled as much as usual (relative lot) and still Covid free.

Again, I’ll fall back to travel being a determining factor for this sport. Shouldn’t be.

But for the Gophers fan taking shots. Let’s put Minnesota in the same region as Wisconsin and then let’s talk about how that really leads to a real national champion. I’m sure you’d be onboard with that. Let’s put Michigan in that same region while we’re at it.
 
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