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Covfefe-19 The 12th Part: The Only Thing Worse Than This New Board Is TrumpVirus2020

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alfablue said:
Based on the tone of your "question", you clearly have an opening view of distrust in all things. Which is ok, unless you also dismiss any evidence of what they are doing.

But the single individual shows data that supports the conclusion, based on many sources, and a diverse group of people showing them many opinions. And that person is a responsible leader, showing sources and reasons, yes I would accept a "single individual" to do what they conclude is the best for public interest.

We don't live in dictatorship, so responsible leaders will lead from a point of view of democracy as opposed to individual mandates.

The "wide range of viewpoints" right now are part science, and part reactionary without data to back them right now. And one leading fact is ahead of the pack right now- people are dying in abnormally high amounts. To pretend that some fear of dictatorship needs to keep the public in a harmful position is just leading by fear. Pretty typical of a Racist Party member.

But that "fear" of yours does explain why you dismiss the very positive results from many other countries around the world. Even when the countries are full democracies and are back to being free again.
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I don't know that it's a distrust of all things. For instance, I will trust people are telling the truth, until they demonstrate the opposite to me.

When it comes to politics, I am always concerned when we agree to sort of a "rules change" because it's beneficial now, without thinking about the consequence down the road, if someone else is in charge.

As I said, I have never doubted the virus is real, or its effects. That is why in my personal life, since March 12, I have eaten one time in a restaurant, I haven't been in any bars, I haven't seen my parents, my siblings or their families in person, why my wife and I have only seen our girls twice and that was outdoors. I've been to Costco twice, the hardware store three times and and Walmart once. Other than a bi-weekly trip to the grocery store/butcher, that's it. Sat at home and watched tv, or golfed outdoors. I've skipped funerals. I've skipped weddings. I have been in one other person's home, one time. I've worn a mask in public places.

That has been my personal approach to handling the pandemic. I don't think that really sounds like someone who doesn't trust the science.

But what concerns me about the way we've handled this, as a nation, is the absolute willingness that a sizable majority of the population has been willing to allow a single person in their state to decide a whole lot of things, and use the power of the state to prosecute or enforce it. Yeah, it seems "appropriate" now, but we are setting a precedent here.

I think the government should have, and should continue to do the aid packages to people and business. I think the government should throw money at trying to develop a vaccine. I think the government should throw money at hospitals and caregivers to help them get the equipment and people they need to treat those infected. And I think it should be a source of information and leadership. Clearly under Trump, the last part didn't occur.

I think Joe Biden's approach where he's going to come in and ask the public, beg the public to give him 100 days of mask wearing, is precisely the right approach. It won't get everyone to do it, but it will probably be enough.

I think the shutting down of businesses has been the wrong approach. The only way it's the correct approach is if you shut down every business, and that can't happen. People need food, they need the lights on, etc... So that leaves us with selective death sentences for businesses, and that's unfair and people will fight it.
 
SJHovey said:
I don't know that it's a distrust of all things. For instance, I will trust people are telling the truth, until they demonstrate the opposite to me.

When it comes to politics, I am always concerned when we agree to sort of a "rules change" because it's beneficial now, without thinking about the consequence down the road, if someone else is in charge.

As I said, I have never doubted the virus is real, or its effects. That is why in my personal life, since March 12, I have eaten one time in a restaurant, I haven't been in any bars, I haven't seen my parents, my siblings or their families in person, why my wife and I have only seen our girls twice and that was outdoors. I've been to Costco twice, the hardware store three times and and Walmart once. Other than a bi-weekly trip to the grocery store/butcher, that's it. Sat at home and watched tv, or golfed outdoors. I've skipped funerals. I've skipped weddings. I have been in one other person's home, one time. I've worn a mask in public places.

That has been my personal approach to handling the pandemic. I don't think that really sounds like someone who doesn't trust the science.

But what concerns me about the way we've handled this, as a nation, is the absolute willingness that a sizable majority of the population has been willing to allow a single person in their state to decide a whole lot of things, and use the power of the state to prosecute or enforce it. Yeah, it seems "appropriate" now, but we are setting a precedent here.

I think the government should have, and should continue to do the aid packages to people and business. I think the government should throw money at trying to develop a vaccine. I think the government should throw money at hospitals and caregivers to help them get the equipment and people they need to treat those infected. And I think it should be a source of information and leadership. Clearly under Trump, the last part didn't occur.

I think Joe Biden's approach where he's going to come in and ask the public, beg the public to give him 100 days of mask wearing, is precisely the right approach. It won't get everyone to do it, but it will probably be enough.

I think the shutting down of businesses has been the wrong approach. The only way it's the correct approach is if you shut down every business, and that can't happen. People need food, they need the lights on, etc... So that leaves us with selective death sentences for businesses, and that's unfair and people will fight it.
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"F those less fortunate than me" would have saved you a lot of typing.
 
SJHovey said:
I don't know that it's a distrust of all things. For instance, I will trust people are telling the truth, until they demonstrate the opposite to me.

When it comes to politics, I am always concerned when we agree to sort of a "rules change" because it's beneficial now, without thinking about the consequence down the road, if someone else is in charge.

As I said, I have never doubted the virus is real, or its effects. That is why in my personal life, since March 12, I have eaten one time in a restaurant, I haven't been in any bars, I haven't seen my parents, my siblings or their families in person, why my wife and I have only seen our girls twice and that was outdoors. I've been to Costco twice, the hardware store three times and and Walmart once. Other than a bi-weekly trip to the grocery store/butcher, that's it. Sat at home and watched tv, or golfed outdoors. I've skipped funerals. I've skipped weddings. I have been in one other person's home, one time. I've worn a mask in public places.

That has been my personal approach to handling the pandemic. I don't think that really sounds like someone who doesn't trust the science.

But what concerns me about the way we've handled this, as a nation, is the absolute willingness that a sizable majority of the population has been willing to allow a single person in their state to decide a whole lot of things, and use the power of the state to prosecute or enforce it. Yeah, it seems "appropriate" now, but we are setting a precedent here.

I think the government should have, and should continue to do the aid packages to people and business. I think the government should throw money at trying to develop a vaccine. I think the government should throw money at hospitals and caregivers to help them get the equipment and people they need to treat those infected. And I think it should be a source of information and leadership. Clearly under Trump, the last part didn't occur.

I think Joe Biden's approach where he's going to come in and ask the public, beg the public to give him 100 days of mask wearing, is precisely the right approach. It won't get everyone to do it, but it will probably be enough.

I think the shutting down of businesses has been the wrong approach. The only way it's the correct approach is if you shut down every business, and that can't happen. People need food, they need the lights on, etc... So that leaves us with selective death sentences for businesses, and that's unfair and people will fight it.
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I think a lot of people go along with it because they believe in it. I firmly believe things should be shut down and we should do everything we can to protect people.

I don’t really get the attitude that businesses should never lose money or go under. The nature of it as I always understood it was you could be wildly successful and make a lot of money or you could fail miserably. There are methods of transferring risk available and most entities chose to ignore them(Wimby and British Open being notable exceptions.)

That’s not to say I don’t have empathy for those who have financial hardship because of this. The government has failed miserably at giving the resources needed, largely because of the Republicans.
 
Drew S. said:
Part of Mass is out of ICU beds, but don’t worry restaurants are still open for indoor dining.
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Considering the amount of beds available in this State this is very impressive in a bad sort of way. New Hampster is also ticking up impressively. RI is a mess. No amount of prevention works when you can't keep out the people not willing to prevent.

I do not understand the thought process behind keeping things open. No one with sense is going to go into an enclosed space. Folks who are willing to do that are self selected out as being more tolerant of risk so therefore more likely to be a vector.

We are past the point where anyone who has working synapses can pretend anything is normal (OK, the dips in the HockeyLeast thread are pretending well...). So the line of lets try to keep going makes no sense. All the failing attempts to keep going- dining, church, sports- are resulting in clusters of cases that act like the L'Oreal commercial and prolong the agony. Shut the fvck down already. You keep letting people burn their reserves to open but at an unsustainable rate or open then shut when they have a sick employee, etc. How is this sustainable? It ends up blowing thru what ever resources are left AND because it causes spread you are no farther ahead.
 
leswp1 said:
Considering the amount of beds available in this State this is very impressive in a bad sort of way. New Hampster is also ticking up impressively. RI is a mess. No amount of prevention works when you can't keep out the people not willing to prevent.

I do not understand the thought process behind keeping things open. No one with sense is going to go into an enclosed space. Folks who are willing to do that are self selected out as being more tolerant of risk so therefore more likely to be a vector.

We are past the point where anyone who has working synapses can pretend anything is normal (OK, the dips in the HockeyLeast thread are pretending well...). So the line of lets try to keep going makes no sense. All the failing attempts to keep going- dining, church, sports- are resulting in clusters of cases that act like the L'Oreal commercial and prolong the agony. Shut the fvck down already. You keep letting people burn their reserves to open but at an unsustainable rate or open then shut when they have a sick employee, etc. How is this sustainable? It ends up blowing thru what ever resources are left AND because it causes spread you are no farther ahead.
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I understand not closing down. I disagree, but understand. Here is the logic:
  • To close down we would need federal money for those out of work and for businesses. The state is out of money.
  • The feds will not be offering any assistance anytime soon. The Republicans have seen to that, and Trump couldn't possibly care less.
  • Further closures will result in an economic collapse as businesses close and people run out of money (and no end in sight, so likely they will end up running out of UI as well).
  • The negative impacts to population health of what would be a total depression would likely (or at least, possibly) be worse than the impacts of COVID.
I lay this firmly on the feet of the federal government. This is an abject failure of leadership, and we have a lot to be ashamed of. This is exactly why we have a federal government, and we failed. The refrain I keep hearing from the right is that "Pelosi just wants to bail out all the cities that burned down from the riots - they should receive nothing." I don't even know where to start correcting that.
 
One further issue - MA was able to significantly expand ICU bed availability in the spring because we were not doing elective procedures. SICUs were able to be leveraged as surgeries were postponed. PACUs as well, and even units like heart catheter labs were re-purposed.

We cannot do that this time around without horrific consequences. First, the negative impact to patient care is enormous. Second, the financial impact to hospitals would be further devastating. Any future hope of financial relief from the federal government is so fleeting (thanks to the Republicans) and far away as not to be impactful.


This is a catastrophe, made infinitely worse by Donald Trump and Mitch McConnell.
 
Swansong said:
One further issue - MA was able to significantly expand ICU bed availability in the spring because we were not doing elective procedures. SICUs were able to be leveraged as surgeries were postponed. PACUs as well, and even units like heart catheter labs were re-purposed.

We cannot do that this time around without horrific consequences. First, the negative impact to patient care is enormous. Second, the financial impact to hospitals would be further devastating. Any future hope of financial relief from the federal government is so fleeting (thanks to the Republicans) and far away as not to be impactful.


This is a catastrophe, made infinitely worse by Donald Trump and Mitch McConnell.
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It's fitting that Mitch declared himself the Grim Reaper during Pres. Obama's administration.
 
Swansong said:
One further issue - MA was able to significantly expand ICU bed availability in the spring because we were not doing elective procedures. SICUs were able to be leveraged as surgeries were postponed. PACUs as well, and even units like heart catheter labs were re-purposed.

We cannot do that this time around without horrific consequences. First, the negative impact to patient care is enormous. Second, the financial impact to hospitals would be further devastating. Any future hope of financial relief from the federal government is so fleeting (thanks to the Republicans) and far away as not to be impactful.


This is a catastrophe, made infinitely worse by Donald Trump and Mitch McConnell.
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This is a great post.
 
Swansong said:
One further issue - MA was able to significantly expand ICU bed availability in the spring because we were not doing elective procedures. SICUs were able to be leveraged as surgeries were postponed. PACUs as well, and even units like heart catheter labs were re-purposed.

We cannot do that this time around without horrific consequences. First, the negative impact to patient care is enormous. Second, the financial impact to hospitals would be further devastating. Any future hope of financial relief from the federal government is so fleeting (thanks to the Republicans) and far away as not to be impactful.


This is a catastrophe, made infinitely worse by Donald Trump and Mitch McConnell.
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And if you read between the lines in this post you can see why are health care system is so lacking to begin with, even absent a pandemic. With a pandemic it will always hover just days away from a complete collapse in some areas, and of course it may just collapse entirely.

I don't know that completely socialized healthcare is the only route, but because the right screams that any governmental intervention will lead our entire country down the sink-hole of socialism, we can't even begin to fix the things that Obamacare simply did not fix. If American exceptionalism is in fact so exceptional, we ought to be able to figure this out. If the right would be open to ANYTHING, we probably could. Just like they forced us into only one corner with coronavirus.

Frankly with so many dead I am kinda surprised we haven't seen the bubble up of an undercurrent of revolution. Not only have nearly 300,000 Americans died in just 9 months, another few hundred thousand were NEAR death and could have gone either way without heroic efforts by our healthcare professionals. An effective response even with our outmoded healthcare system would have saved most of those lives and billions of dollars. What the hell will it take for people to wake up in this country? I'm starting to think that even dead bodies piled up in the streets won't be enough. Would it literally have to be something so devastating -- along the lines of a nuclear attack with tens of millions dead -- for people to say enough is enough? Our president is guilty of depraved indifference murder, and 95% of congressional republicans are complicit and so almost equally guilty. Yet we allow them to go merrily about their business. Shameful.
 
SJHovey said:
I think Joe Biden's approach where he's going to come in and ask the public, beg the public to give him 100 days of mask wearing, is precisely the right approach. It won't get everyone to do it, but it will probably be enough..
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Honest question... who do you see changing their mask wearing stance once Biden does this?
 
cF[Authentic said:
;n3622582]

Honest question... who do you see changing their mask wearing stance once Biden does this?
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I don't know. I'm sure there will be people who will refuse. I don't know any of them, but I'm sure they exist. But if even one person changes, isn't that an improvement?
 
I applaud Biden for doing so, but this will change no one's opinion. Those that won't wear a mask are going to dig in even harder.

It's ridiculous, it's disgusting, but this is just going to be how it is until next summer or fall when we can all be vaccinated.
 
rufus said:
But I was told that the number of deaths was falling.

I'm confused. Was I being lied to? Talked down to like I was an 8 year old?
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It is falling...off a cliff. At the rate we are going we will be losing a 9/11 per day starting in a few days. And it wont be stopping any time soon because infections arent dropping yet and hospitalizations are going up. If only the experts had told everyone, if only people who understood math and science had explained it. If only one party wasnt filled with homicidal maniacs that decided to gin up hatred of masks and tell everyone the virus is a hoax, and then when they were proven wrong double down saying "Herd Immunity is Our Goal" cause it "worked" in Sweden.

Even now clowns like Ron DeathSantis is whining how things should be open. The MNGOP is whining about gyms being closed. The streets in the Dakotas are lined with COVID. All of this preventable but the "FREDUMBERZ!!!1!" just had to have their way. This is all on them. Anyone who ever called it a flu, said masks don't help, called it a hoax, purposefully broke social distancing guidelines and stayed open when they werent supposed to has blood on their hands.

The GOP spent hours and hours trying figure out what happened in Benghazi because 4 people died. They dont even bat an eye when 700 times that die daily of a virus. They should all burn.
 
ScoobyDoo said:
No. We're not ALL going to get vaccinated. Many of the same idiots who won't wear a mask will also skip vaccination.
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You're right, but we should still be able to reach a critical mass and achieve some level of herd immunity to - again - cover up for the selfish shitbags.
 
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