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Another Mass Shooting: It's Those Darn Video Games!

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WeAreNDHockey said:
I don't think it matters a whole lot what people forget or what they know about firearms. Who cares if the typical round you fire with an AR-15 is actually a pretty small caliber? Some of us know and understand the ballistics and the physics behind why the AR-15 is so lethal and is the preferred rifle among the mass shooters. None of that matters. There is no reason for the average person to possess one. There never has been. There never will be.

Maybe the next mass shooting with an AR-15 will target the right people so that congress acts. We know they don't care if children and black people are the ones getting shot.
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There is one reason, and one reason only as to why the AR-15 has been a popular choice for these mass shootings. The appearance of the weapon.

You think these 18 year olds sat down and studied the ballistics and lethality of various caliber choices before choosing the AR-15 as their weapon?

They chose it because it looks like an army gun. It looks like a rifle cops might carry.

That is literally it, the appearance.
 
ScoobyDoo said:
https://twitter.com/60Minutes/status...36042820194305
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Simple Math. (C) Scooby 2003

It's physics. Despite the similarity in bullet shape and size (the actual projectile) of a 22LR and a 223, the 223 is a heavier bullet (generally) and has much more gunpowder to throw that bullet.

Force = Mass x Accelleration

A .223/5.56 round has much more force than a .22LR, 9mm, or even a .38 round.

That force is what does the damage.

I'm all for gun ownership, but an 18 year old shouldn't have the ability to buy a weapon that can fire a damaging round like a .223/5.56, or at least not without some training.
 
SJHovey said:
There is one reason, and one reason only as to why the AR-15 has been a popular choice for these mass shootings. The appearance of the weapon.

You think these 18 year olds sat down and studied the ballistics and lethality of various caliber choices before choosing the AR-15 as their weapon?

They chose it because it looks like an army gun. It looks like a rifle cops might carry.

That is literally it, the appearance.
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Then why are they not buying the .22LR version that looks *indentical* to the .223/5.56 models that Smith and Wesson, Ruger, and others make?

Because they want to also have the damage behind it. A .22 "isn't cool." Fuck that. Minimum age to get any weapon over a certain force of bullet needs to be better regulated.
 
Scoob - like I said, I'm not disagreeing with you fundamentally. But the rounds are a huge part of what makes them so deadly, at least as much as the collection of parts used in the AR15 itself. The firing mechanism is used in other non-assault rifles, for example.

I want to curtail our nation's ridiculous obsession with guns and maybe save some lives in the process. I'm not coming at this from a "but mah freedoms!" perspective. I'm coming at this from a pure "well, would this new restriction accomplish anything" one.

Banning the AR15 platform wouldn't do that, in my opinion.
  • Taxing rounds heavily will help.
  • Limiting/banning semi-autos in general will help.
  • Universal background checks will help.
  • Waiting periods on purchases will help.
  • Substantial investments into mental health coverage will help.
Don't focus on the specific tool, is my point, because someone will just develop the AR16 that's totally not the same thing but is totally the same thing and we accomplish nothing.
 
SJHovey said:
There is one reason, and one reason only as to why the AR-15 has been a popular choice for these mass shootings. The appearance of the weapon.

You think these 18 year olds sat down and studied the ballistics and lethality of various caliber choices before choosing the AR-15 as their weapon?

They chose it because it looks like an army gun. It looks like a rifle cops might carry.

That is literally it, the appearance.
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I don't disagree with this. A law preventing them from selling sexy looking rifles could have been passed by a competent Congress. It's part of the myriad of reasons I fall on the "take all the guns away" side of things. I'm so sick and tired of this issue I am done with legal guns.
 
Yeah, I agree with that as well, and it's why I don't think we should be focusing on the AR15. If they paint it brown and take the military-looking attachments off it, it's no less deadly a weapon.
 
Swansong said:
That certainly isn't unique about the AR-15, in relation to a number of other rifles.

I am very pro-gun control at this point, but the fear mongering and misinformation about the AR-15 is frustrating.
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I consider myself "pro-gun" too, own firearms and am a concealed carry permit holder, but I think the fear mongering is actually pretty spot-on. People need to be fearful of these types of weapons, because they are intended and designed to kill large numbers of humans very quickly. They serve no useful purpose in your hands or my hands.

Responsible firearms owners like me (and I will assume you too, if you own firearms) have simply got to come to grips with the fact that too many of our fellow firearms owners are 100% irresponsible and instead of worrying about misinformation -- and yes, there is some out there and often people who have no clue about firearms get stuff wrong -- we need to worry about the only thing that matters. Assault style rifles have no place in a civilized society and they have killed far too many innocent people.

I never killed anyone with one of my firearms, but I never killed anyone with lawn darts either. I can no longer buy one of those. The other I can literally drive to, 15 minutes from my office and buy -- today -- almost any kind of weapon imagninable. That needs to change.
 
WeAreNDHockey said:
I consider myself "pro-gun" too, own firearms and am a concealed carry permit holder, but I think the fear mongering is actually pretty spot-on. People need to be fearful of these types of weapons, because they are intended and designed to kill large numbers of humans very quickly. They serve no useful purpose in your hands or my hands.

Responsible firearms owners like me (and I will assume you too, if you own firearms) have simply got to come to grips with the fact that too many of our fellow firearms owners are 100% irresponsible and instead of worrying about misinformation -- and yes, there is some out there and often people who have no clue about firearms get stuff wrong -- we need to worry about the only thing that matters. Assault style rifles have no place in a civilized society and they have killed far too many innocent people.

I never killed anyone with one of my firearms, but I never killed anyone with lawn darts either. I can no longer buy one of those. The other I can literally drive to, 15 minutes from my office and buy -- today -- almost any kind of weapon imagninable. That needs to change.
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Agree with this, more or less. I'm not a gun owner but I'm not anti or pro-gun. And I agree that a lot of people are wildly irresponsible.
 
SJHovey said:
There is one reason, and one reason only as to why the AR-15 has been a popular choice for these mass shootings. The appearance of the weapon.

You think these 18 year olds sat down and studied the ballistics and lethality of various caliber choices before choosing the AR-15 as their weapon?

They chose it because it looks like an army gun. It looks like a rifle cops might carry.

That is literally it, the appearance.
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No the 18 year olds did not sit around and figure out the physics. But they know the weapon itself is more lethal than plenty of others. My sister doesn't know the first thing about firearms, and has no idea behind WHY the AR-15 is so dangerous, but she certainly knows it is. My guess is Kyle Rittenhouse is dumber than a bag of tree bark and couldn't tell you why his AR-15 tore apart the people he shot, but before he pulled the trigger he knew it was more powerful than a lot of other guns.
 
SJHovey said:
Actually, guns like a .22-250 or a .223 (which is what most AR-15's are, I believe) are pretty popular calibers for hunting raccoons. Now, that said, that doesn't mean you need a .223 caliber gun that looks like an AR-15. You can buy them in a variety of styles.

What people always forget about these AR-15's (because of their appearance, and because of their use in most of these mass shootings) is that the AR-15 is actually a pretty small caliber rifle.

https://www.huntingriflesreviews.com/raccoon-hunting-guns.php
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That is wonderful. Tell that to the parents of the kids who couldnt be identified because that small caliber bullet mutilated their kid to the point they we unidentifiable.

Funny how settlers killed raccoons in the 1600s without fucking assault weapons...
 
Swansong said:
That certainly isn't unique about the AR-15, in relation to a number of other rifles.

I am very pro-gun control at this point, but the fear mongering and misinformation about the AR-15 is frustrating.
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There is literally no reason for the average person to need an AR-15. Zero.

There is no argument to be made beyond that. No need for fear mongering or what you might call misinformation (I wouldn't but I am not a gun person so who knows) just look at what happens when people are allowed to own them that is fearful enough as it is. We cannot be trusted...

And that isn't just the AR-15, it is any of these "I got a small dick and suck at hunting so my big gun makes me feel like a man" guns. That also goes for the "I am too much of a sad fucking puzzy to join the military so I buy the weapons and LARP" guns too.

And if one more old person says "we used to bring guns to school back in the day" I might go buy an AR-15 and shoot them myself. (relax I am obviously kidding) No one cares that in 1984 you used to bring your hunting rifle to school. In 1984 you probably didn't wear seat belts and thought mullets were a happening style. We live in the real world and no one is taking their hunting rifle into a classroom and killing 19 kids...because well they cant.
 
Handyman said:
There is literally no reason for the average person to need an AR-15. Zero.

There is no argument to be made beyond that. No need for fear mongering or what you might call misinformation (I wouldn't but I am not a gun person so who knows) just look at what happens when people are allowed to own them that is fearful enough as it is. We cannot be trusted...

And that isn't just the AR-15, it is any of these "I got a small dick and suck at hunting so my big gun makes me feel like a man" guns. That also goes for the "I am too much of a sad fucking puzzy to join the military so I buy the weapons and LARP" guns too.

And if one more old person says "we used to bring guns to school back in the day" I might go buy an AR-15 and shoot them myself. (relax I am obviously kidding) No one cares that in 1984 you used to bring your hunting rifle to school. In 1984 you probably didn't wear seat belts and thought mullets were a happening style. We live in the real world and no one is taking their hunting rifle into a classroom and killing 19 kids...because well they cant.
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Again, no fundamental argument about controlling guns further. And I know it's petty but I absolutely agree on the penile compensation thing.

But again, take the scary looking attachments off an AR15 and you have a carbine that is just as deadly. My point is to make laws that actually fix our problems, not laws that are merely symbolic. Hence my list of suggestions upthread. I think a ban/sever restriction on semi-autos would have much more impact than simply banning a popular gun platform.
 
Forget the labels, ban the physics. There’s no reason for civilians to own weapons beyond a certain (legitimately debatable) muzzle energy over time. You want a gun that shoots a .223? No problem - it just has to be designed such that it can’t fire more than 1 round per minute. You want a rapid fire semi-automatic? No problem - enjoy that pellet gun.
 
LynahFan said:
Forget the labels, ban the physics. There’s no reason for civilians to own weapons beyond a certain (legitimately debatable) muzzle energy over time. You want a gun that shoots a .223? No problem - it just has to be designed such that it can’t fire more than 1 round per minute. You want a rapid fire semi-automatic? No problem - enjoy that pellet gun.
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all-of-this-pointing.gif



This.

Ammunition and guns should be broken into three/four categories. All rated by the foot-pounds of the bullet fired.
Then each tier can gradually get limited in who can purchase.

Airsoft? Go wild, unrestricted.
FOID card for the rest plus:
22LR? Age 18 minimum plus a class on handling, etc.
From there to .38? 21 + class
From there to .45? 23, advanced class, proof of storage container.
"Advanced ammo" packing more punch than a .45 (.227, .50, etc,)? 25, advanced classes, proof of storage container (gun safe).
 
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