Yale - The best team in the country?

[Slasher7]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

Yale is a good team that will chalk up a lot of wins in a bad conference. Are they a top 5 team? Maybe. Do I think they could beat BC, UND, Denver, etc in the postseason? I dont think so.

 

[LTsatch]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

Does Yale have some goofy bandwagon fans popping up and making outlandish statements about their newfound eternal love?

Great post until that statement. Yale has had a great fan base for many years and many of us had not had the opportunity to back our team online due to it's performance. It is strange that we do have a very small online presence of our fan base, (note our biggest supporter on these forums resides in Arizona). Call me (or us) goofy bandwagoneers, we are just a passionate as the next teams fans and my love of the team at least has been long term. Someday,if RPI ever comes into consideration for a first place poll vote, may you get to act as "goofy" as we have been.

 

[redrocker]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

Yale is a good team that will chalk up a lot of wins in a bad conference. Are they a top 5 team? Maybe. Do I think they could beat BC, UND, Denver, etc in the postseason? I dont think so.

Totally. No chance a weak ECAC club like Yale could ever beat a program like UND in the postseason. Never going happen. Ever.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

Yale is a good team that will chalk up a lot of wins in a bad conference. Are they a top 5 team? Maybe. Do I think they could beat BC, UND, Denver, etc in the postseason? I dont think so.

One game, anything can happen. Would Yale be 10-1 if they played in HE, the CCHA or the WCHA? No. But they've beaten the teams on their schedule. One problem for them is that any losses to what are weaker teams may have a bigger impact on the PWR ranking.

I happened to catch the BC-BU games, and Sunday's Yale game on tv this weekend. Yale has a nice team, but I wouldn't bet on them against BC in even a one game playoff.

I think they'll probably get the number 1 ranking this week due to what happened to the other teams around them. Congrats to them, since I assume this will be their first. With their schedule, I expect they'll receive a fairly high NCAA tournament ranking, and then we'll all get to see whether they can win four straight against quality competition and earn the title "best team in the country."

 

[Slasher7]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

Totally. No chance a weak ECAC club like Yale could ever beat a program like UND in the postseason. Never going happen. Ever.

That game was more on UND than Yale. They got UND at the perfect time. Getting a top seed in Bridgeport would be tremendous for them and maybe get them through the first game, but I think the best they can do is make another Regional Final before losing. Who knows, I guess we'll see, but I dont see many strong teams on that schedule that'll prepare them for the big boys in March

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

Great post until that statement. Yale has had a great fan base for many years and many of us had not had the opportunity to back our team online due to it's performance. It is strange that we do have a very small online presence of our fan base, (note our biggest supporter on these forums resides in Arizona). Call me (or us) goofy bandwagoneers, we are just a passionate as the next teams fans and my love of the team at least has been long term. Someday,if RPI ever comes into consideration for a first place poll vote, may you get to act as "goofy" as we have been.

RPI has gotten first place votes and in addition has gone into the NCAA as #1. Granted, some posters here weren't born when the last statement was true.

 

[licwinko]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

Totally. No chance a weak ECAC club like Yale could ever beat a program like UND in the postseason. Never going happen. Ever.

Sorry red, you can't use past season results as evidence. The way we know Yale can't compete with teams from WCHA or CCHA is because historically those teams are better than teams in the ECAC. Duh

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

Totally. No chance a weak ECAC club like Yale could ever beat a program like UND in the postseason. Never going happen. Ever.

I'm pretty sure they were talking about this year, but your point is extremely valid. Any team can beat any other team on any given day. It becomes entirely more likely when one team doesn't show up for 40 minutes.

Like I said in a previous post, Yale will most likely be the #1 team in the country come NCAA time. They play a relatively easy schedule and are a very good team. I'd be surprised if they have more than 3-4 losses when the NCAA tournament starts. What will define this team will be the NCAA tournament. I think a lot of people are holding judgment on this team until then. Given recent history, people don't believe that ECAC teams will do anything in the NCAA Tournament, other than maybe surprise a team in the first round here and there. When you factor in that teams like Bemidji State and RIT (no offense to either school) have made the Frozen Four, it would almost require Yale to win the title to gain the ECAC respect around the nation. However, it's been about 22 years since an ECAC school brought home a title...a very good reason to not believe Yale (or any ECAC school) is the best in the country.

We should really revisit this topic in mid-April. For now, enjoy your success, and I anticipate that you'll have quite a bit more in the coming months.

 

[goblue78]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

I guess it depends what you think number one ought to mean in a sport with a final playoff. It doesn't make much sense to say it means "the team you think will win the championship" for at least three reasons: first, why bother, since the championship will decide that question Second, the championship is so far away that making that prediction now is meaningless anyway. Third, you create situations where a team you think will eventually be playing great (say, because an injured player will come back) ought to be ranked high because they're a great playoff team, or at least will be. A second interpretation is that it means "the team playing the best overall so far this season." Under that interpretation, it seems to me that SOS counts for something, but how many losses against pretty good teams balance extra wins? And under that interpretation, it's clearly possible that a team that's "playing the best so far this season" will be a long shot to win the championship, but why do you care? Hell, every team is a long shot to win to the championship -- of the top eight every year, at most one wins the championship. Seems like pretty long odds to me. Yale has never been ranked number one -- ever. For the sake of the development of the sport, and since it doesn't do any harm in any case, it would be great to see new blood up there for a week or two anyway. There's a downside of course --once a team reaches number one, they usually have to have a dry spell to fall out. If the schedule is weak, the chances of that are somewhat smaller -- but PWR rules anyway, so I'm not sure why anybody cares.

 

[hockeyjunkie10]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

If Yale's resume, schedule, and outlook was applied to a team from Hockey East or the WCHA, this probably isn't even a question. The only reason this is a discussion is because they're out of the ECAC, pure and simple.

Don't take my word for it, look at the computer models - they're designed to be objective, not subjective. RPI? Yale's number one. KRACH (maybe the most objective model of all)? Yale's number one. Want to adjust KRACH for home-ice advantage (KASA)? Yale's number one. The HEAL method, developed at Maine? Yale's number one. CCHP, developed by Eric Carlson at UAF? Yale's number one.

There are a few computer models that don't have them in the top spot. Eugene Potemkin's rankings and St. Lawrence University's CHODR have the Bulldogs second in the nation, behind UMD and BC respectively. Then there's the recursive version of HEAL, which pegs Yale 8th, but many teams generally have an anomalous position on one or more models: Denver is 16th in the nation according to CCHP, for instance, trailing Merrimack. These models are not perfect - but taken collectively, they do serve as an objective barometer, and outliers on either extreme can usually be disregarded. The numbers don't lie: Yale is one of the best right now, and perhaps the best.

They have the best offense in the country by more than a goal per game. Their much maligned defense is now up to a tie for 9th in the country. That gives them an average scoring margin of +2.82, again, better than second place by more than a goal per game. They have the longest active undefeated streak in the country right now with five in a row. They've lost one game out of 11, a game in which they held a 3-0 lead late before the only real letdown of the season. I would be suspicious of a team with an average schedule (Yale's SOS isn't low by any means, it's roughly the national median) who was leading in all of these categories, but about equivalent of other top teams. Instead, their offense has blown the doors off. They are at the very least on par with the UMDs and UNDs of the world. If the only thing you've got to hold over Yale's heads is their schedule, you haven't got much to work with. If it wasn't for a 15 minute let down in a single game, this conversation is even more silly.

Does Yale have some goofy bandwagon fans popping up and making outlandish statements about their newfound eternal love? Yes, they do appear to. Don't let that cloud your judgment of just how good the Bulldogs are right now. If anything, perhaps the fact that they have a bandwagon is even more proof positive that every other indicator is ringing true.

Listen, I don't get this "goofy bandwagon fans popping up and making outlandish statements" jive. I have watched Yale in the same way I've watched most other top teams and the original post on this thread was to open up some, hopefully, healthy debate about the merit of Yale as the top team in the country. That weekend, they lost to Air Force, and of course all the naysayers got all jacked up. As far as that AFA game goes, and I am not making excuses for Yale - they had a job to do and they didn't get it done, it wasn't like they got abused by AFA. When Denny Kearney scored off a draw early in the 3rd, Yale held a considerable shot advantage and a 3-0 lead. As human nature goes, they threw it on auto-pilot and Malcolm gave up one **** goal after another. Frank's team was buzzing in their own barn with their electric fans behind them and ended up getting the W. It happens. I think it was a good learning experience for Yale - to play sixty minutes and respect every opponent - which will help them down the road.

For me, this has been a three year process for Yale to get to where they are and why I truly believe they are the best team in the country. When Yale got to the tournament for the first time against UVM, I think it appeared that they were a little happy to be there and weren't quite sure they belonged. It showed in the way they played, they got dominated, but they learned. Last year, Yale IMO may very well have been the best team in the USA from the net out. Before the playoffs, we all know what happened to Backman and we all know what happened against NoDak, and we all know what ultimately happened against BC. The fact that Yale was even still on the sheet after a 180 foot goal and a shorty or two was absurd. With six skaters and no goalie they probably could've won the game. No disrespect to BC, they were a deserving national champion.

At the beginning of this year, the only question mark around Yale was their goaltending. So far between the pipes Rondeau is undefeated (9-0, 1.89, .926). Yale has primary scoring, they have secondary scoring, they have a goalie with lights out numbers, they are good on special teams. This is a team built for a deep run. Will they win the NC, who knows? Does the best team always win the NC? No. It is difficult to run off four in a row - all it takes is a hot goalie and a couple bad bounces to go against you. That said, they are a legitimate #1 should the poll reflect that this afternoon. I've watched the top teams in the west this year, I've watched the top team's in the east. This team is legit and if you haven't watched them - you probably should. They put on a clinic (most nights) in how the game is supposed to be played.

 

[realet]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

Yale is one of the top teams in the country now, the question is are they THE top team? The reason their schedule comes into play is because it's easy to say they have the best offense, top defense and best record when you play lousy teams. Putting up 7g against an ECAC bottom dweller doesnt' mean you have the best offense.... they are still a top tier team but until they beat someone of consequence (and looking at their schedule that's going to have to wait until March) the recognition as #1 is going to be tough to get.

I believe this is what I was getting at by pointing out the massive gulf between their numbers and everyone else's. If they play UMD's schedule, are their numbers that gaudy? Probably not. But they're probably still one of the best, if not THE best. If their numbers were close to, well, everyone else's with the schedule they've played, I'm not arguing that they're the #1 team.

Great post until that statement. Yale has had a great fan base for many years and many of us had not had the opportunity to back our team online due to it's performance. It is strange that we do have a very small online presence of our fan base, (note our biggest supporter on these forums resides in Arizona). Call me (or us) goofy bandwagoneers, we are just a passionate as the next teams fans and my love of the team at least has been long term. Someday,if RPI ever comes into consideration for a first place poll vote, may you get to act as "goofy" as we have been.

OK, first off, if you aren't backing your team "due to it's [sic] performance," that's pretty much the definition of bandwagon. Second, I didn't specifically call YOU anything. Guilty conscience? Third, RPI's fans are pretty well regarded as being a solid fanbase regardless of how well their team is doing (see also Cornell, Clarkson in the ECAC), so your petty little attack is laughable. At any rate, I bring up the front-runner syndrome as a defense of Yale's potential status as the top team in the country, and you attack me for it? Sorry I bothered.

EDIT: Impressive. I give an impassioned defense of Yale as the #1 team, and I get the most heat from Yale fans.

 

[jcarter7669]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

Listen, I don't get this "goofy bandwagon fans popping up and making outlandish statements" jive.

Well look at the threads started for Pete's sake, the best team in the country? Best Offense, Top Defense? Come on, it doesn't take PhD from Yale to realize that if you play an entire season of weak teams you are going to have inflated statistics. That's not to say Yale isn't a good team, just that you can't make ...outlandish statments like that. And to be considered #1 you have to actually beat some top tier teams. Otherwise everyone would be trying to line up 35 games / year against AIC.

 

[realet]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

Come on, it doesn't take PhD from Yale to realize that if you play an entire season of weak teams you are going to have inflated statistics. That's not to say Yale isn't a good team, just that you can't make ...outlandish statments like that. And to be considered #1 you have to actually beat some top tier teams. Otherwise everyone would be trying to line up 35 games / year against AIC.

The argument that Yale's schedule is "weak" is a canard. It is not as strong as some other top tier teams, but it's not weak - average would be a better term. Their schedule is worth considering before proclaiming them #1 but one cannot use it as the only crutch to lean on to avoid doing so. There are some rather strong teams that would not be 10-1-0 against their schedule.

 

[hockeyjunkie10]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

Well look at the threads started for Pete's sake, the best team in the country? Best Offense, Top Defense? Come on, it doesn't take PhD from Yale to realize that if you play an entire season of weak teams you are going to have inflated statistics. That's not to say Yale isn't a good team, just that you can't make ...outlandish statments like that. And to be considered #1 you have to actually beat some top tier teams. Otherwise everyone would be trying to line up 35 games / year against AIC.

It isnt outlandish - its based on a projection of Yale's performance based on their tangible parts compared to another team's. It's the same premise as recruiting. Is a kid in the USHL better than a kid in the SJHL? Not necessarily. Are the players, by and large, better in the USHL than in SJ? Yes. But when you are recruiting and you find a stud in the SJ, do you say, nah he's not good enough, he plays in the SJ? Of course not, thats ludicrous. You make a projection about where that guy would fit based on his tangible (and intangible) abilities. Are the teams in HEA & the WCHA, by and large, better than the ECAC? Of course. Is it possibile that the best team in the country is in the ECAC? Yup.

 

[yaledoc]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

Listen, I don't get this "goofy bandwagon fans popping up and making outlandish statements" jive. I have watched Yale in the same way I've watched most other top teams and the original post on this thread was to open up some, hopefully, healthy debate about the merit of Yale as the top team in the country. That weekend, they lost to Air Force, and of course all the naysayers got all jacked up. As far as that AFA game goes, and I am not making excuses for Yale - they had a job to do and they didn't get it done, it wasn't like they got abused by AFA. When Denny Kearney scored off a draw early in the 3rd, Yale held a considerable shot advantage and a 3-0 lead. As human nature goes, they threw it on auto-pilot and Malcolm gave up one **** goal after another. Frank's team was buzzing in their own barn with their electric fans behind them and ended up getting the W. It happens. I think it was a good learning experience for Yale - to play sixty minutes and respect every opponent - which will help them down the road.

For me, this has been a three year process for Yale to get to where they are and why I truly believe they are the best team in the country. When Yale got to the tournament for the first time against UVM, I think it appeared that they were a little happy to be there and weren't quite sure they belonged. It showed in the way they played, they got dominated, but they learned. Last year, Yale IMO may very well have been the best team in the USA from the net out. Before the playoffs, we all know what happened to Backman and we all know what happened against NoDak, and we all know what ultimately happened against BC. The fact that Yale was even still on the sheet after a 180 foot goal and a shorty or two was absurd. With six skaters and no goalie they probably could've won the game. No disrespect to BC, they were a deserving national champion.

At the beginning of this year, the only question mark around Yale was their goaltending. So far between the pipes Rondeau is undefeated (9-0, 1.89, .926). Yale has primary scoring, they have secondary scoring, they have a goalie with lights out numbers, they are good on special teams. This is a team built for a deep run. Will they win the NC, who knows? Does the best team always win the NC? No. It is difficult to run off four in a row - all it takes is a hot goalie and a couple bad bounces to go against you. That said, they are a legitimate #1 should the poll reflect that this afternoon. I've watched the top teams in the west this year, I've watched the top team's in the east. This team is legit and if you haven't watched them - you probably should. They put on a clinic (most nights) in how the game is supposed to be played.

HJ: One pithy comment on your post...... magnificent!! I would only add one
other point, an obvious one: the AFA game was the second of the weekend at 6,000 ft. By the 3rd stanza, instead of a stride ahead, the Bulldogs were a stride behind. In retrospect, it may have been a blessing..... the guys were reminded of how they felt after the BC game. Broc Little said as much in his post-game comments. Scheduling 2 games at 6,000 ft. AND sitting the #1 net-minder..... a rare
faux pas by Keith, or another stroke of genius? You decide!

 

[hockeyjunkie10]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

It isnt outlandish - its based on a projection of Yale's performance based on their tangible parts compared to another team's. It's the same premise as recruiting. Is a kid in the USHL better than a kid in the SJHL? Not necessarily. Are the players, by and large, better in the USHL than in SJ? Yes. But when you are recruiting and you find a stud in the SJ, do you say, nah he's not good enough, he plays in the SJ? Of course not, thats ludicrous. You make a projection about where that guy would fit based on his tangible (and intangible) abilities. Are the teams in HEA & the WCHA, by and large, better than the ECAC? Of course. Is it possibile that the best team in the country is in the ECAC? Yup.

Oh, and I wouldn't wanna play AIC right now. They've won 3 of 4. Ahh, but yes, just against "weak AHA" teams Mercyhurst and RIT. RIT sucks, they only beat UNH and Denver last year to get to the Frozen Four. Terrible program! AIC also beat AFA, who beat Yale, who beat CC, who beat Denver, who beat North Dakota and Duluth. F--- this college hockey thing is bizarre!

 

[Slasher7]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

Oh, and I wouldn't wanna play AIC right now. They've won 3 of 4. Ahh, but yes, just against "weak AHA" teams Mercyhurst and RIT. RIT sucks, they only beat UNH and Denver last year to get to the Frozen Four. Terrible program! AIC also beat AFA, who beat Yale, who beat CC, who beat Denver, who beat North Dakota and Duluth. F--- this college hockey thing is bizarre!

I dont think you can compare last year's RIT team to this year's RIT team. Yale, with that schedule, can't afford to lose many games or PWR will punish them severely. They need a # 1 seed if they want any prayer to make it far. I think they get bounced in the regional final regardless of where they finish

 

[jcarter7669]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

The argument that Yale's schedule is "weak" is a canard. It is not as strong as some other top tier teams, but it's not weak - average would be a better term. Their schedule is worth considering before proclaiming them #1 but one cannot use it as the only crutch to lean on to avoid doing so. There are some rather strong teams that would not be 10-1-0 against their schedule.

It's 31 out of 58 teams....that's below average. 4 of their 11 games don't even count in the PWR,with #43 UVM and #44 on the horizon its soon to be 6 of 13 or nearly half that won't count. I don't know what average is in CT but that sure ain't it anywhere else in the world.

 

[jcarter7669]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

It isnt outlandish - its based on a projection of Yale's performance based on their tangible parts compared to another team's. It's the same premise as recruiting. Is a kid in the USHL better than a kid in the SJHL? Not necessarily. Are the players, by and large, better in the USHL than in SJ? Yes. But when you are recruiting and you find a stud in the SJ, do you say, nah he's not good enough, he plays in the SJ?

What if the kid in the USHL is putting up 1 PPG and the kid in the SJHL is putting up 1.1 PPG. You would recruit the SJHL kid?

 

[jcarter7669]

Re: Yale - The best team in the country?

Oh, and I wouldn't wanna play AIC right now. They've won 3 of 4. Ahh, but yes, just against "weak AHA" teams Mercyhurst and RIT. RIT sucks, they only beat UNH and Denver last year to get to the Frozen Four.

Does Yale have a time travel machine? Why would anyone with even a quarter of a brain try and do comparisons between years. Yeah well I bet Yale couldn't beat BU in 2009, or BC in 2008 or blah blah blah blah...