Women's Team, Challenge for a Spot!!!

[WIrinkrat]

Re: Women's Team, Challenge for a Spot!!!

WIrinkrat - The first time you refused to entertain any critique of the 'authorities' was disturbing, the above was just wrong. Not saying yaba is spot on, but there are reasons she is asking the questions she is.

You, WIRR, as an older, experienced hockey person could easily tease out the valid concerns of the OP or a view from the other side with some answers (if you have any - you sure talk like you do) instead of twisting words, insulting and slamming the door.

You and I have very different definitions of "disturbing." But apparently I'm not the only one, since nobody has wanted to engage in any part of this debate.

Anyway, I'll bite. What words did I twist? And how do I talk like I sure have answers when I have explicitly stated that there are no answers for this type of baseless criticism? The only answer I have is come back with some actual evidence to frame and support a rational argument. None was presented and there is apparently no good answer to the question I've asked several times about why we would field our JV hockey team...other than some story about how we're trying not to blow everyone out so we don't end up like softball.

Sorry, but if you're going to throw out accusations of impropriety then you better come and back it up with some real compelling evidence outside of "I think some players never get a chance" and "if this was the high school band they could challenge someone for their spot."

 

[sillywench]

Re: Women's Team, Challenge for a Spot!!!

And how do I talk like I sure have answers when I have explicitly stated that there are no answers for this type of baseless criticism?

First - reality would indicate that EVERY selection process has its inefficiencies. And over time completely 'acceptable' inefficiencies become 'costly' inefficiencies. Only good can come out of civilized conversation about inefficiencies in the process.


Here comes yaba suggesting maybe we should look at something going on which might be inefficient in our selection process. You said 'no'. Then you followed up with some other stuff which directly implied that the process could not be improved upon and yaba should not question the authorities who already knew everything.

I assume you are a civilized adult in your daily life. Later when the conversation started getting stupid, you accused a quite obviously caring, experienced and interested party (who also might be naive and quite obviously not a coach) of hallucinations.

Might you have some player or coach who has benefited from the existing process? If so, YOU might be the overly biased one in this conversation. If you are truly qualified to answer the OP with a 'no' - then you are also qualified enough to see where yaba is in her learning process and direct her with good responses. 'no' is useless to everyone.

How 'bout we start over and ask yaba if there is a certain type, category or ??? of player that is getting consistantly missed or overvalued? The 'better' player yaba described getting missed really doesn't help define a 'problem' (if there is one).

 

[WIrinkrat]

Re: Women's Team, Challenge for a Spot!!!

The 'better' player yaba described getting missed really doesn't help define a 'problem' (if there is one).

This is all that really needs to be said. If you or anyone else identifies a specific issue that is supported by substantial evidence then let's have a conversation. I believe I said that pretty early on. Nobody ever said anything was perfect, however, when nobody can pinpoint any specific issues or supporting factors then I think it is reasonable to expect that those handling the situation every day are the ones that we should defer to when making decisions, period.

 

[brookyone]

Re: Women's Team, Challenge for a Spot!!!

Are we talking about inefficiency...or some perceived unfairness? I've read the unfair and favoritism complaints regarding selections for years. Going back to what has been mentioned already...any given staff may be looking for ingredients to a team outside of just pure skill. I'm sure all fans know chemistry is pretty essential to success at this level. There is no pretense or promise of fairness in the process.

I believe the original question was regarding a suggested "challenge" process. This isn't "Drumline" and I would agree with those who think a challenge protocol is not the answer to fielding someone's concept of the "best" team...meaning someone not directly involved in the process for any given national camp, festival, team selection for international competition...what have you. Personally I think said "challenge" process and any associated protocol has every bit as much potential for politics, or favoritism...and just as much potential for selections many will still find objectionable (to them) as does the current system...the source of the dissatisfaction on which this thread is based. With large potential for added drain of already limited resources. Probably best get accustomed to seeing talented, perfectly qualified players being left out in a selection process. I don't see how that's avoidable.

I'm not involved in the process...but that's what I think. Leave it to those whose job it is...while holding them accountable for results, and my theory is throwing a "challenge" process into the mix has as much potential for counter productivity as it does for any implied benefit.

 

[hockey35]

Re: Women's Team, Challenge for a Spot!!!

Are we talking about inefficiency...or some perceived unfairness? I've read the unfair and favoritism complaints regarding selections for years. Going back to what has been mentioned already...any given staff may be looking for ingredients to a team outside of just pure skill. I'm sure all fans know chemistry is pretty essential to success at this level. There is no pretense or promise of fairness in the process. .

maybe to paraphrase Herb Brooks...they aren't always looking for the best players, but they are looking for the right players.

 

[YabaDabaDoo]

Re: Women's Team, Challenge for a Spot!!!

I have learned a lot reading the various posts and responses, This link is one of the questions to which I have no response? I already know that Select, National and Olympic team candidates have been screened and vetted for years! Having said that, they then go and have walkon Olympic team tryouts? "http://www.arizonarubber.com/story.cfm?id=1493" what for? in case they missed someone? or to fill a requirement?

 

[rinkrat890890]

Re: Women's Team, Challenge for a Spot!!!

I have learned a lot reading the various posts and responses, This link is one of the questions to which I have no response? I already know that Select, National and Olympic team candidates have been screened and vetted for years! Having said that, they then go and have walkon Olympic team tryouts? "http://www.arizonarubber.com/story.cfm?id=1493" what for? in case they missed someone? or to fill a requirement?

Could it also act as a fundraiser? They do charge for it.

 

[WIrinkrat]

Re: Women's Team, Challenge for a Spot!!!

Could it also act as a fundraiser? They do charge for it.

+1 that is a glorified moneygrab, and also gives all kinds of girls the chance to say they "tried out for the Olympic team"

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Women's Team, Challenge for a Spot!!!

I don't believe that there is a political agenda other than trying to keep the games going.

Both Canada and USA Hockey are committed to grow the game internationally. This is nothing new, been going on for years. After the comments by Rogge in Vancouver, extra resources and additional programs were created to enhance the chances of success. The motive is to grow the game internationally. The various U18 programs, started abour 6 years ago, were a key step towards that goal.

By the way, what happened to the U22's ? MLP = Fin, Rus, Swe, Can, Ger, Sui NO USA?

USA has not participated in the MLP cup, or its past equivalent for years. Only recent U22 program in USA was a camp and a 3 game series with Canada in the summer.

 

[Hux]

Re: Women's Team, Challenge for a Spot!!!

I have learned a lot reading the various posts and responses, This link is one of the questions to which I have no response? I already know that Select, National and Olympic team candidates have been screened and vetted for years! Having said that, they then go and have walkon Olympic team tryouts? "http://www.arizonarubber.com/story.cfm?id=1493" what for? in case they missed someone? or to fill a requirement?

If I recall, the USOC or IOC require it.

 

[aa2fan]

If I recall, the USOC or IOC require it.

Thankfully they do require it. The way it is set up to send only a certain amount from each region is losing out on some great talent. Talent that may be better than the talent from another region collectively but they don't get to go. IMHO ! There were girls who clearly outplayed some o the girls from other regions yet were looked over because of numbers. Also, every region does their selects differently. Mandate they all do the same to be sure all girls are getting an equal look at. One 2 hour look at ( when the neutral evaluators are in the rink actually evaluating) does not give the while picture of the player. Model the selects like the boys. Again- IMHO-

 

[sillywench]

Re: Women's Team, Challenge for a Spot!!!

Yaba,

Didn't see any mention so forgive me if this was already familiar - the following link on the active player pool page may be just the 'suggestion box' you're looking for for 'missed' players...

http://survey.usahockey.com/wsb.dll/s/7gaf

Not saying it addresses what you're concerned about, but is a way for a coach or other qualified (credible?) party to bring up a player that seems qualified.

 

[YabaDabaDoo]

Re: Women's Team, Challenge for a Spot!!!

Thanx for the idea but the Active Player Pool Page is a black hole! I am aware of 4 "Highly Recognized" coaches who experimented and found that it fell on deaf ears? Not to worry? it is what it is and USA Hockey pretty much latches on to the flavors of the month "Not that those players aren't very good" and unless they really mess up that's it! I know also that in a few cases the squeaky wheel gets the grease!