Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXX: 1 All American at a Time

[DPlaya]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXX: 1 All American at a Time

Looks like the verbal "gentleman's agreement" for recruiting is going by the wayside. I wondered about this a little bit with Jason Ford de-committing from Bemidji to commit to UW (yes, I know he's a legacy recruit and his brother is coming to UW).

This should benefit UW in a couple of ways IMHO. First, it fits what they are currently doing on the recruiting front by grabbing top talent early and waiting until closer to the arrival of each class before adding what they need. Second, being a bigger more high profile school with better facilities, TV coverage, etc. I would think they will be more likely to flip a recruit from schools with lower profiles, facilities, staffs etc. than one of those schools would be to flip one of their recruits. The one caveat to that may be having players "waiting" to come in who could come in earlier. Those players may jump at a chance to go somewhere else and start playing college hockey sooner. On that front I know Andy, in an article he wrote, pointed to Patrick Wiercioch as an example of just such a jump. He was "waiting" to come to UW and got a chance a year earlier to go to Denver, which he did.

 

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXX: 1 All American at a Time

Dominick Mersch was selected in the first round of the USHL Phase I draft (1998 born players) by the Lincoln Stars.

There were also 24 Wisconsin born players selected between the Phase I and Phase II drafts. LINK to all the Wisconsin picks.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXX: 1 All American at a Time

Looks like the verbal "gentleman's agreement" for recruiting is going by the wayside. I wondered about this a little bit with Jason Ford de-committing from Bemidji to commit to UW (yes, I know he's a legacy recruit and his brother is coming to UW).

This should benefit UW in a couple of ways IMHO. First, it fits what they are currently doing on the recruiting front by grabbing top talent early and waiting until closer to the arrival of each class before adding what they need. Second, being a bigger more high profile school with better facilities, TV coverage, etc. I would think they will be more likely to flip a recruit from schools with lower profiles, facilities, staffs etc. than one of those schools would be to flip one of their recruits. The one caveat to that may be having players "waiting" to come in who could come in earlier. Those players may jump at a chance to go somewhere else and start playing college hockey sooner. On that front I know Andy, in an article he wrote, pointed to Patrick Wiercioch as an example of just such a jump. He was "waiting" to come to UW and got a chance a year earlier to go to Denver, which he did.

The WSJ has an article on this and it reads that the coaches agreed to uphold the gentlemen's agreement, but that Eaves has decided to not abide by it like tDon and York do. It also said last year Eaves had a high end kid who committed somewhere else as a 15 yr old call him and ask if UW was still interested, but UW had no room. That high end kid could have done a ton of good for UW this upcoming year.

 

[markwojo]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXX: 1 All American at a Time

The WSJ has an article on this and it reads that the coaches agreed to uphold the gentlemen's agreement, but that Eaves has decided to not abide by it like tDon and York do. It also said last year Eaves had a high end kid who committed somewhere else as a 15 yr old call him and ask if UW was still interested, but UW had no room. That high end kid could have done a ton of good for UW this upcoming year.

Here's the quote:
Eaves said he got a call last year from a high-end prospect he’d recruited, but who picked another school when he was 15. The player had a change of heart and asked about coming to UW.

“We haven’t seen you play (recently),” Eaves told him, “and we don’t have room.”

I'm not sure how much this mystery kid would have helped...was he a Corbin McGuire that committed (and peaked) at 15 or a a true stud at this point? I find it hard to believe the staff would not have seen a "high end" kid play recently. Seems most of these kids play in the same tournaments or in the USHL against each other once they hit junior age.

Regardless, dropping the gentleman's agreement can do nothing but help UW. High profile programs with better exposure/facilities/ect are much more likely to be able to swoop in last minute and grab a kid that blossomed late (or had a change of heart for whatever reason) then they are to lose kids they really want elsewhere.

In the end...the gentleman's agreement is uninforceable and opens pandora's box for those that want to play around the edges. When DU came in and grab Wiercioch who was committed to UW, would we truely have any way of knowing who initiated the contact and pushed the idea? If Wiercioch came up with the idea himself....gentleman's agreement works fine and stuff happens. If Gowz put out the idea to the family (say an assistant mentions the sudden opening at DU when Carle has the health issue end his career to an assistant he is friends with for his junior team)...then gentleman's agreement don't really exist. I'm not saying Gwoz did anything wrong and/or that the kid didn't come to him...but you have no way of knowing and it is easy through back channels to start the conversation. In Wiercioch's case...Ottawa who had drafted him very well may have encouraged him to look at DU to get out of Jr faster.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

The WSJ has an article on this and it reads that the coaches agreed to uphold the gentlemen's agreement, but that Eaves has decided to not abide by it like tDon and York do. It also said last year Eaves had a high end kid who committed somewhere else as a 15 yr old call him and ask if UW was still interested, but UW had no room. That high end kid could have done a ton of good for UW this upcoming year.

There is no evidence to suggest that Minnesota hasn't honored the gentlemen's agreement up to this point. In fact, I think the fact that Minnesota's staff brought the subject up again at this year's meetings supports that. If they weren't honoring it, why bother?

I wish they hadn't been honoring it as I think the agreement is archaic. Once again, Jerry York is ahead of the curve as I think BC is the only big school that wasn't hard fast honoring the agreement.

 

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXX: 1 All American at a Time

Wisconsin choosing to not abide by the agreement is about the least shocking news of all time. They've more than flirted with the boundries on at least three occasions I can think of over the past 4-5 years.

I've long been a supporter of dropping the agreement.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

Wisconsin choosing to not abide by the agreement is about the least shocking news of all time. They've more than flirted with the boundries on at least three occasions I can think of over the past 4-5 years.

I've long been a supporter of dropping the agreement.

Your article on this was great. It's what changed my mind on the subject.

 

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXX: 1 All American at a Time

Brock Boeser just tweeted he is going to play for Waterloo next season in the USHL. They just traded for his rights. I have it on good authority he was the U.S. NTDP's No. 1 choice to replace any openings they had for next season.

Kid is going to be a good one. 200-foot hockey player with big-time offensive upside.

 

[bothman]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXX: 1 All American at a Time

Wisconsin choosing to not abide by the agreement is about the least shocking news of all time. They've more than flirted with the boundries on at least three occasions I can think of over the past 4-5 years.

I've long been a supporter of dropping the agreement.

Good for Wisconsin, bad for college hockey. Favors the big schools that don't need any more levers. Moves like this after "lesser hockey programs" have won the last few NCAA championships make you wonder....

 

[markwojo]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXX: 1 All American at a Time

Good for Wisconsin, bad for college hockey. Favors the big schools that don't need any more levers. Moves like this after "lesser hockey programs" have won the last few NCAA championships make you wonder....

Sorry, I don't look at Wisconsin, Minnesota, North Dakota, BC, Denver, Michigan, BU, UNH, Maine, and several other traditional "big schools" being sucessful as bad for college hockey or mutually exculusive of the "lesser hockey programs" being able to also have success. The big boys being good pays the bills. Pretty sure Union winning is a bit more meaningful going through BC in the semi and Minny in the final. Further, schools like Union, Quinnipiac, UMass, Ferris State, Yale, ect who have had some tourney success are not generally doing their thing with recruits that are on the big boys radar.

 

[bothman]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXX: 1 All American at a Time

Sorry, I don't look at Wisconsin, Minnesota, North Dakota, BC, Denver, Michigan, BU, UNH, Maine, and several other traditional "big schools" being sucessful as bad for college hockey or mutually exculusive of the "lesser hockey programs" being able to also have success. The big boys being good pays the bills. Pretty sure Union winning is a bit more meaningful going through BC in the semi and Minny in the final. Further, schools like Union, Quinnipiac, UMass, Ferris State, Yale, ect who have had some tourney success are not generally doing their thing with recruits that are on the big boys radar.

Moves of this nature will push college hockey to be more like women's basketball where you can generally pencil in the final 4 any given year. And with all due respect, winning a national championship is a great accomplishemnt regardless of who you go through to get there.

You can't take a historical view of this in saying that Yale's roster consisted of players that fell under the radar. Would Agostino, etc been on Yale's roster if the verbal agreement was not honored? None of us have the answer to that one, but what I do know is that Yale doesn't win without him.

I'm very interested in how this plays out over the next few years:
1) Obviously coaches/fans of the big schools love not obliging to verbals because now they can have their cake and eat it too. They can go after the 1-2 & Dones and not have to worry about roster integrity when surprises happen.
2) Be interesting to see if the coaching fraternity weakens as a result of this cherry picking and whether MJ can exploit a divided front

 

[NCAA watcher]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXX: 1 All American at a Time

I'm sorry, I was under the impression that College was something players chose based upon what would lead to their greatest personal and professional growth. I'm glad to find out that the goal is to promote parity among colleges. I assume the best way to address this is simply to draft and allocate the players to the colleges.

 

[Hammy]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXX: 1 All American at a Time

I'll never understand the logic of people that pine to keep the gentleman's agreement and they use the logic that somehow it is better. But it isn't "better" for all of them. More importantly, it also isn't "better" for the recruits themselves because they are kept in the dark by this agreement with regard to all of their potential opportunities. Without the agreement, they can still verbal and feel as secure as they do now... but if something more attractive should come along, they are no longer kept in the dark about it.

The coaches are all trying to maximize their individual situations. Whether small program or big program. I get that. But if it isn't an NCAA rule for all sports that a verbal commit is "hands off", I don't think coaches at big programs should shoot their program in the foot and be a part of something that can actually hinder their fortunes.

 

[bothman]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXX: 1 All American at a Time

I'm sorry, I was under the impression that College was something players chose based upon what would lead to their greatest personal and professional growth. I'm glad to find out that the goal is to promote parity among colleges. I assume the best way to address this is simply to draft and allocate the players to the colleges.

So what happens to the "lesser" players who find themselves now displaced by the "elite" athletes who change their minds?

 

[NCAA watcher]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXX: 1 All American at a Time

The same thing that happens now -- they get deferred and can either "de-commit" and go elsewhere, or get strung along til they age out of juniors.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXX: 1 All American at a Time

And they end up back in their hometowns playing in men's groups like mine.

The fate of most of these kids which is why I laugh at the parents who still have their decent player kid chasing the dream.

 

[bothman]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXX: 1 All American at a Time

The same thing that happens now -- they get deferred and can either "de-commit" and go elsewhere, or get strung along til they age out of juniors.

Yes, but it will happen a lot more now then it did in the past. The verbals created friction or at least the perception of it.

Listen, I'm a free market guy. But let's play this out. Let's take UNH or Wisconsin's roster. How many of those guys could get into Harvard & Yale? So if Harvard & Yale wantdd to poach, what is their addressable market for athletes that could clear the admissions hurrdle? Meanwhile, everyone on Harvard or Yale's roster would be accepted at UNH & Wisconsin. So anyone who thinks this decision is an even playing field is delusional.

 

[Bonin21]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXX: 1 All American at a Time

Getting into Harvard to play hockey is not the same as getting into Harvard. College hockey players generally come from families with money. Families with money generally have access to good schools when the kids are growing up. I doubt you need more than a 26 or so on the ACT to get into Harvard for hockey, unless there's documentation of that out there somewhere.

 

[markwojo]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXX: 1 All American at a Time

So what happens to the "lesser" players who find themselves now displaced by the "elite" athletes who change their minds?

Maybe the school that the "elite" guy changed their mind from will need a guy?

Seriously...we want to continue some "gentleman's" proposition that only invites guys that want to wheel and deal behind the scenes an advantage, keeps choices limited for the student athlete's (some of them may suprise and prefer to be the man at a small school then one of the guys in a big school....but it should be their choice if they have a viable option), because they favor the little school?...ummm...pretty sure that concept is of little interest to anyone that frequents this thread. Maybe the "small guy" threads will have more traction with keeping the status quo. If I'm the coach of a "small guy" school that just had a nice run....I might even want the option of trying to convince a kid committed to a bigger school I just bounced out of the tourney that they may have more success at my small school.

 

[bothman]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXX: 1 All American at a Time

Getting into Harvard to play hockey is not the same as getting into Harvard. College hockey players generally come from families with money. Families with money generally have access to good schools when the kids are growing up. I doubt you need more than a 26 or so on the ACT to get into Harvard for hockey, unless there's documentation of that out there somewhere.

You have to be within one standard deviation of the general student body academic index (a combination of SAT, GPA/Class Rank, and SAT II scores). I'd say that is a high bar, no? And if you don't believe me, the proof is in the pudding: Harvard just lost its 2 best recruits for next year (Adam Plant going to Denver now and I bet Fortunato ends up at BC) because they couldn't get through admissions.

I'll bugger off since I know this is a Wisconsin thread, but overall, I think this rule change needs a more balanced perspective.