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Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse

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Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse

Wisko McBadgerton said:
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So then a partial to a WI resident leaves them way less to pay out of pocket than a kid from Canada, eh?

The thing I don't understand is UW has all these guys leaving, so there should be a bunch of funds available, and from what I read, Rockwood would commit if offered, so why not get him on board (seems like a Zengerle type). UW would certainly take Rockwood, Sheehy and Hughes if they could, correct? Is the money available that tight with 4 spots open still? Are we looking at getting 1 of the 3 with a "full" and then 3 with tiny partials that will attract no one of significance?
 
Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse

Here's what we have already committed for next fall from the early signing period:
D-Linhart (Wisc)
D-Dougherty (Minn)
D-Ford (Wisc)
G-Grunwald (NY)
F-Ustaski (IL)
F-Wagner (IL)

Of that grouping, I would imagine Dougherty and maybe Wagner got a decent chunk of scholarship monies (maybe 75%?), Ford and Linhart something (50%?), and probably less for Ustaski and Grunwald.

Outgoing (before any early departures may occur):
D-Faust (Minn)
D-Simonelli (IL)
F-Barnes (Minn)
F-Dahl (Wisc)
F-Little (Wisc)
F-Mersch (IL)
F-Meuer (Wisc)
F-Zengerle (NY)

I would imagine Mersch/Simonelli combo were similar cost to Wagner/Dougherty (give or take a little). Barnes/Faust similar to Ford/Linhart. That only leave Zengerle as significant scholarship dollars available as the rest of the outgoing I'm guessing weren't getting a bunch.

Now I don't know how as guys leave early or unexpectedly money gets shuffled around (ie....what happened with Woods money last Summer when he went pro), but I don't see a ton of money available in just looking at what is coming in and what is going out at this point. That might be the whole problem with Sheehy....if you have money for one significant scholarship player and you think you have a better then good chance at that being Hughes....that's a guy you have to wait on a decision from.
 
Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse

markwojo said:
Here's what we have already committed for next fall from the early signing period:
D-Linhart (Wisc)
D-Dougherty (Minn)
D-Ford (Wisc)
G-Grunwald (NY)
F-Ustaski (IL)
F-Wagner (IL)

Of that grouping, I would imagine Dougherty and maybe Wagner got a decent chunk of scholarship monies (maybe 75%?), Ford and Linhart something (50%?), and probably less for Ustaski and Grunwald.

Outgoing (before any early departures may occur):
D-Faust (Minn)
D-Simonelli (IL)
F-Barnes (Minn)
F-Dahl (Wisc)
F-Little (Wisc)
F-Mersch (IL)
F-Meuer (Wisc)
F-Zengerle (NY)

I would imagine Mersch/Simonelli combo were similar cost to Wagner/Dougherty (give or take a little). Barnes/Faust similar to Ford/Linhart. That only leave Zengerle as significant scholarship dollars available as the rest of the outgoing I'm guessing weren't getting a bunch.

Now I don't know how as guys leave early or unexpectedly money gets shuffled around (ie....what happened with Woods money last Summer when he went pro), but I don't see a ton of money available in just looking at what is coming in and what is going out at this point. That might be the whole problem with Sheehy....if you have money for one significant scholarship player and you think you have a better then good chance at that being Hughes....that's a guy you have to wait on a decision from.
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I think it's more like Dougherty, Linhart, Ford and Wagner on fulls. Grunwald committed to a full I'm sure as a goalie, I'm not sure if that has changed along the way. Ustaski is probably a half.
 
Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse

What I don't get is why scholarship money has to be a big deal of high-end recruits. I'm sure that the players that are projected to go to the NHL will end up with a decent enough salary that would allow them to quickly pay back any student loans. When you look at the development available to a young man, I'd like to think that the coaching staff would matter more than a 75% vs 50% scholarship...but what do I know...
 
Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse

KaMiGo said:
What I don't get is why scholarship money has to be a big deal of high-end recruits. I'm sure that the players that are projected to go to the NHL will end up with a decent enough salary that would allow them to quickly pay back any student loans. When you look at the development available to a young man, I'd like to think that the coaching staff would matter more than a 75% vs 50% scholarship...but what do I know...
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While some of what you say is true and plays into it, "Buy now, Pay Later" is never really a very good choice if you can avoid it. And counting on NHL $$ to pay would be an especially bad decision. For example Kerdiles will probably be an NHL'er one day, but as good a player as he is, he was still rated a "C" prospect, which in theory means only a 50/50 chance to play in the NHL. Considering the cost of out of state tuition, scholarship $$ is a pretty big deal for most.
 
Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse

College money probably doesn't mean much to a lot of hockey families. That's why I like football recruiting, too. Those kids don't come from money and then they go to Alabama and... haha.
 
Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse

Chuck Schwartz said:
I think it's more like Dougherty, Linhart, Ford and Wagner on fulls. Grunwald committed to a full I'm sure as a goalie, I'm not sure if that has changed along the way. Ustaski is probably a half.
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In that case, I doubt we have much of anything to offer. I would suspect Rumpel, Zullnick, McCabe, Labate, Kerdelies, Besse, Soleway, Navin, and Wittchow are eating up somewhere around full scholarships too.
 
Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse

markwojo said:
In that case, I doubt we have much of anything to offer. I would suspect Rumpel, Zullnick, McCabe, Labate, Kerdelies, Besse, Soleway, Navin, and Wittchow are eating up somewhere around full scholarships too.
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It's really impossible to know without having the actual numbers. Maybe a kid is offered a 3 for 4 with the 3 years on the back end. Maybe a kid leaves early and they bump those three years up. It's really hard to project if we don't know. But yeah, I'd assume the kids coming in have big numbers. Dougherty and Linhart have to be fulls for sure. Ford and Wagner had big time offers from major schools. Goalies are almost always fulls, but with the way Grunwald struggled I'm not sure if that was adjusted or not.
 
Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse

Good News! I've come up with the answer to all our problems!

An incredibly dynamic player who'll assure a sold out Kohl Center AND return the Badgers to Championship glory! I just can't fathom how it's possible no one else has suggested it!




<a href="http://imgur.com/V8XwS93"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/V8XwS93.jpg" title="Hosted by imgur.com"/></a>

The jersey's even available next year!
 
Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse

<a href="http://imgur.com/UQK1ZDy"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/UQK1ZDy.jpg" title="Hosted by imgur.com" /></a>
 
Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse

Just curious, how are the number of scholarships for a particular sport determined by the NCAA? It's 18 for hockey for a 25-ish man roster, 85 I believe for football, and 13 for basketball. Is there some sort of formula?
 
icebadger said:
Just curious, how are the number of scholarships for a particular sport determined by the NCAA? It's 18 for hockey for a 25-ish man roster, 85 I believe for football, and 13 for basketball. Is there some sort of formula?
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No formula, just whatever the NCAA decides they want to set the amount to.

Strong push from schools (particularly power schools) to keep higher levels for the major revenue sports. Hockey has a higher level than many of the non-revenue sports but has been cut multiple times since scholarship limits were introduced in the 70s.
 
Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse

Almington said:
No formula, just whatever the NCAA decides they want to set the amount to.

Strong push from schools (particularly power schools) to keep higher levels for the major revenue sports. Hockey has a higher level than many of the non-revenue sports but has been cut multiple times since scholarship limits were introduced in the 70s.
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The biggest reason hockey landed at 18 is because hockey self imposed a reduction and then the NCAA implanted an across the board cut at one point. Hockey guys tried to say they already cut things but it didn't work.
I believe it was 20
 
Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse

Almington said:
No formula, just whatever the NCAA decides they want to set the amount to.

Strong push from schools (particularly power schools) to keep higher levels for the major revenue sports. Hockey has a higher level than many of the non-revenue sports but has been cut multiple times since scholarship limits were introduced in the 70s.
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This may be an odd place to mention this, but why is the term "revenue sport" the common term? I do see that you said "major revenue sports," which makes sense. Football generates major major revenue, and Basketball generates major revenue, while other sports produce less revenue. But I always hear "revenue-generating sports" and "non-revenue sports," and it makes no sense. If you sell one ticket for a penny, it generates reveue. If the sport is free to attend, brings in absolutely no advertising revenue, but one guy buys one hot dog at an event, I'm pretty sure that sport generated revenue.
 
Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse

WiscDC said:
This may be an odd place to mention this, but why is the term "revenue sport" the common term? I do see that you said "major revenue sports," which makes sense. Football generates major major revenue, and Basketball generates major revenue, while other sports produce less revenue. But I always hear "revenue-generating sports" and "non-revenue sports," and it makes no sense. If you sell one ticket for a penny, it generates reveue. If the sport is free to attend, brings in absolutely no advertising revenue, but one guy buys one hot dog at an event, I'm pretty sure that sport generated revenue.
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Revenue generating sports = ones that turn a profit. Football, basketball and men's hockey. Everything else in the athletic department loses money.
 
Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse

Chuck Schwartz said:
Revenue generating sports = ones that turn a profit. Football, basketball and men's hockey. Everything else in the athletic department loses money.
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That's why I think the term is weird. Profit and revenue aren't the same thing, but these terms are so common that it doesn't sound weird when I hear the word "revenue" misused. "Profitable" or "profit-generating" sports!
 
Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse

Chuck Schwartz said:
Revenue generating sports = ones that turn a profit. Football, basketball and men's hockey. Everything else in the athletic department loses money.
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Or, more specifically, the sports that can be reasonably expected to cover its own costs: Football (at BCS schools, elsewhere not so much), Men's Basketball (just about everywhere), Women's Basketball (most schools), and Men's Hockey (some schools). Most schools have 20+ programs that have no chance in generating even a fraction of the costs of supporting the individual program, and even if it does generate 25% of its costs that program is still being subsidized by money generated elsewhere [either Football & Basketball money (best case), Student fees, general university funds (worst case) or some combination of the three].
 
Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse

And this is why, unfortunately, we're a niche sport. Awesome formatting.
D1 Sport Total Revenue
Football $3,178,772,448
Basketball $1,136,882,335
Baseball $129,917,797
Track $128,856,747
Soccer $106,727,675
Volleyball $85,192,983
Golf $68,352,723
Tennis $65,942,963
Softball $60,713,083
Swim/Dive $58,722,850
Ice Hockey $50,610,476
 
Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse

Bonin21 said:
And this is why, unfortunately, we're a niche sport. Awesome formatting.
D1 Sport Total Revenue
Football $3,178,772,448
Basketball $1,136,882,335
Baseball $129,917,797
Track $128,856,747
Soccer $106,727,675
Volleyball $85,192,983
Golf $68,352,723
Tennis $65,942,963
Softball $60,713,083
Swim/Dive $58,722,850
Ice Hockey $50,610,476
Click to expand...


I assume that list is for men and women programs combined? (This, boys and girls, is why you should provide links). I think it's fair to point out that there are about ten times as many D-I swimming and diving teams compared to hockey. My suspicion is that hockey would be 3rd in revenue per program behind Football and Basketball with Baseball a close 4th.
 
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Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/

That was only D1-A schools, too. I was just looking at the impact it has nationally. For those schools (13 with men's hockey), AVG and MED rev/school was third.
 
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