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Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse

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Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse

I understand they've got guys on their radar but I guess the past 20 years have taken their toll on this fan. I don't want to see UW as an interloper on the national stage. I want them front and center and challenging for Frozen Four spots and being a legitimate Top 10 on average. I also want them to be viewed as a something more than an afterthought for Alvarez and his cronies in the AD.

Gurt mentioned it in the other thread and he's correct. These past 20 years have eroded the fanbase significantly.

Eaves' job was to turn the team around and maintain. He turned them around for 3 seasons then after 06? Just 1 season to get excited about.

With regard to recruiting WI kids I maintain the talent level just isn't there to justify having 10 kids or more from in-state. I'd love to see the top 5 WI HS go to Minnesota and play teams ranked 10-15 and see what transpires. I'd wager the WI teams get waxed and the only one that could hold their own (go .500 or better) would be Superior.

ugh...UGH!

I agree completely that the stature of UW hockey both on campus and on a national level has eroded in the last 2 decades. It started before Eaves got on campus (the last decade of Barney Rubble where the only above average years were when Heatley was on campus) and I'm not sure anyone short of Scotty Bowman or his ilk could have reversed that trend. We've debated the causes...but to me the number one reason has been the prominence of football and basketball have been elevated DRASTICALLY compared to the historic norm for decades prior to the mid-late 90's. UW hockey was basically the only show in town as far as being a nationally significant in the 70's and 80's and as such had a spotlight on it that was really unchallanged by other sports. Bouncyball and Footie ranged from aweful to horrible when Hockey was king on campus. Unfortunately for hockey, both have been pretty prominent in terms of success for an entire generation and we are seeing the effect in terms of fan support....we lost a generation of fans that might have taken in a few hockey games as students because there was some buzz from success (and no other sports with that buzz distracting) and once seeing a few games became hooked for life.

As to the recruiting...I am concerned for sure. I am also cautionsly optomistic that hopefully we get a couple high end kids falling our way in the coming weeks...especially Cameron Hughes. Again, I think there has been a concious shift in strategy on recruiting kids at a real young age. While you still target the true elite kids at a young age (ie Fabbro who we just had in as a 15 year old for a visit) that every program and the CHL are offering and hoping to land their commitments...there just are not that many like that around and the handful that there are are likely not going to the same school and going to be spread among the dozen top end D1 schools AND the CHL. That caliber of kid you can count on one hand each year that are going to college hockey (and unfortunately there are 2 hand fulls of D1 schools vying for them and some of those kids have a predispossed affinity for other schools whether it be a kid from Minnie loving the rodents or Schmaltz's having family connections to North Dakota or they are Catholic and like ND/BC better, or whatever). Corbin McGuire is the caustionary tale of offering 15 year old kids that are really good players at 15. Cameron Hughes and Sheehy were not kids that were going to get offers from elite level D1 schools at 15 or even 16...but if the Badger somehow can land one or both....pretty sure most every D1 team would love to trade a commit they will sign for them.
 
I understand they've got guys on their radar but I guess the past 20 years have taken their toll on this fan. I don't want to see UW as an interloper on the national stage. I want them front and center and challenging for Frozen Four spots and being a legitimate Top 10 on average. I also want them to be viewed as a something more than an afterthought for Alvarez and his cronies in the AD.

Gurt mentioned it in the other thread and he's correct. These past 20 years have eroded the fanbase significantly.

Eaves' job was to turn the team around and maintain. He turned them around for 3 seasons then after 06? Just 1 season to get excited about.

With regard to recruiting WI kids I maintain the talent level just isn't there to justify having 10 kids or more from in-state. I'd love to see the top 5 WI HS go to Minnesota and play teams ranked 10-15 and see what transpires. I'd wager the WI teams get waxed and the only one that could hold their own (go .500 or better) would be Superior.

ugh...UGH!

I believe Notre Dame Academy defeated East Grand Forks this season and an argument could be made that East Grand Forks is a Top 10-15 team in MN right now. I have them just outside my Top 15.
 
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The top 5 would more than hold their own against 10-15 in Minny.

The best Wisconsin team is Notre Dame (GB), not Superior.


When taking youth teams to Minny, it seemed that the top athletes were similar if not equal. Players can only get so good and then they plateau. The issue comes at the second and third tiers where Minny still has top or near top level talent and we simply don't. They have a lot more depth.

Our best A teams usually matched up pretty well, but our B teams needed to play their C teams and our marginal A teams needed to play B teams and so on and so forth.


Edit: Superior's not even Top 10.

My 10-15 overall in MN are Grand Rapids, Eden Prairie, Elk River, Breck, Roseau, and Holy Family. I'd say "more than hold their own" is a bit strong, but I don't think the disparity is as large as being suggested. Notre Dame could probably beat any of those teams on a given night, but after that, I'm not as sure. I'd definitely have most if not all of those teams as the favorite against anyone else.
 
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Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse

My 10-15 overall in MN are Grand Rapids, Eden Prairie, Elk River, Breck, Roseau, and Holy Family. I'd say "more than hold their own" is a bit strong, but I don't think the disparity is as large as being suggested. Notre Dame could probably beat any of those teams on a given night, but after that, I'm not as sure. I'd definitely have most if not all of those teams as the favorite against anyone else.



Fair enough.


I certainly agree with the bolded portion. Are they better? Probably... but not unbeatable by our best. Any given night and all.

The falloff would be drastic when you got to our, let's say 10-15, which would probably be run of the mill .500ish (or lower) teams in Minny.



I feel dirty agreeing with you. :p

:D
 
Fair enough.


I certainly agree with the bolded portion. Are they better? Probably... but not unbeatable by our best. Any given night and all.

The falloff would be drastic when you got to our, let's say 10-15, which would probably be run of the mill .500ish (or lower) teams in Minny.



I feel dirty agreeing with you. :p

:D

Absolutely agree. Definately not unbeatable. I'd say the Top 5 in WI would be competitive in MNHS hockey for sure. They might not all be consistently competitive, but there would be years for sure where they would jump into the Top 10 or even maybe Top 5. There just aren't as many programs in WI that could stay consistently competitive. I think Notre Dame would be one school that I think would more than hold their own consistently. It would be tough sledding for them, but it is for a lot of top MNHS teams as well. We all can't be Edina :(
 
Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse

Absolutely agree. Definately not unbeatable. I'd say the Top 5 in WI would be competitive in MNHS hockey for sure. They might not all be consistently competitive, but there would be years for sure where they would jump into the Top 10 or even maybe Top 5. There just aren't as many programs in WI that could stay consistently competitive. I think Notre Dame would be one school that I think would more than hold their own consistently. It would be tough sledding for them, but it is for a lot of top MNHS teams as well. We all can't be Edina :(


I think the trouble would once again come at depth. I believe that my son's high school's top line (Verona #2) would probably be okay against many (most, but certainly not all) top lines in Minny. The problem is that so many opponents would have 2nd or even 3rd lines that are just as good or almost as good.

Our second and third lines are good by Wisconsin standards, but not sure how that would translate across the river.

You and I have had our disputes over college hockey, but I'll give it up wholeheartedly to Minnesota HS hockey (and youth for that matter). It'd sure be fun to be a part of that. <--- Put that in your sig line if you feel the need. :p

That's not to disparage the experiences that I've had here with Wisconsin youth hockey though or the ones we are just beginning in high school. It's been a blast.

But there's a buzz and an energy around the community rinks over there that's fun to tap into - as long as while tapping into it you're not having your butt handed to you.
 
I think the trouble would once again come at depth. I believe that my son's high school's top line (Verona #2) would probably be okay against many (most, but certainly not all) top lines in Minny. The problem is that so many opponents would have 2nd or even 3rd lines that are just as good or almost as good.

Our second and third lines are good by Wisconsin standards, but not sure how that would translate across the river.

You and I have had our disputes over college hockey, but I'll give it up wholeheartedly to Minnesota HS hockey (and youth for that matter). It'd sure be fun to be a part of that. <--- Put that in your sig line if you feel the need. :p

That's not to disparage the experiences that I've had here with Wisconsin youth hockey though or the ones we are just beginning in high school. It's been a blast.

But there's a buzz and an energy around the community rinks over there that's fun to tap into - as long as while tapping into it you're not having your butt handed to you.

Agree whole heartedly again. Living in Wisconsin the pAst 10+ years, I've seen some quality talent in WIHS Hockey. Like you said, it's the depth of the talent that doesn't quite match up.

We have had our disagreements, but I do respect your opinions. I talk a lot of trash, so I deserve to get some back :)
 
Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse

Great article. Thanks for the information. My question is why hasn't Sheehy being offered yet? Is there something else going on?

Agree....great article. My guess on Sheehy is wanting to see some results beyond high school which he certainly is doing at Waterloo.

My hope is we can land Cameron Hughes (we should have more money to offer then anyone else given the holes at forward next year), along with convincing Horn to come for little to nothing (in the first season for sure), and can scrape together enough to entice Sheehy to come. MacTavish might be interesting as I would imagine dad makes enough money to not necessarily care as much about money as he might coaching and good situation....at least relative to a typical Canadian recruiting target.
 
Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse

The top 5 would more than hold their own against 10-15 in Minny.

The best Wisconsin team is Notre Dame (GB), not Superior.


When taking youth teams to Minny, it seemed that the top athletes were similar if not equal. Players can only get so good and then they plateau. The issue comes at the second and third tiers where Minny still has top or near top level talent and we simply don't. They have a lot more depth.

Our best A teams usually matched up pretty well, but our B teams needed to play their C teams and our marginal A teams needed to play B teams and so on and so forth.


Edit: Superior's not even Top 10.

I'll defer to your experience but would add this

Superior cannot be judged by their record compared to Notre Dame (if that's what you're using). Superior could come in at 14-14 and I'd take them in a bet against any Wisconsin team in the field mainly as there's nothing a Wisconsin team can throw at them that they haven't seen from Duluth schools

my opinion on WI HS Hockey vs. MN HS Hockey is based on watching both tournaments via tv and stream the past 3 consecutive years (not a large sample but beyond that we have the years and years of watching guys from both states at the D1 level)

to my eyes the Wisconsin teams in the tourney play the games at a speed that looks like it's 1/3 slower than Minnesota. I mean after watching Edina, Eden Prairie, Holy Angels etc then comparing those games and teams vs. the Wisconsin teams last year it appeared the Wisconsin kids were just slower in every aspect, races to the pucks, break-outs etc, it was VERY noticeable the pace of the games was just a couple of levels below MN...to my eyes anyway.
 
I'll defer to your experience but would add this

Superior cannot be judged by their record compared to Notre Dame (if that's what you're using). Superior could come in at 14-14 and I'd take them in a bet against any Wisconsin team in the field mainly as there's nothing a Wisconsin team can throw at them that they haven't seen from Duluth schools

my opinion on WI HS Hockey vs. MN HS Hockey is based on watching both tournaments via tv and stream the past 3 consecutive years (not a large sample but beyond that we have the years and years of watching guys from both states at the D1 level)

to my eyes the Wisconsin teams in the tourney play the games at a speed that looks like it's 1/3 slower than Minnesota. I mean after watching Edina, Eden Prairie, Holy Angels etc then comparing those games and teams vs. the Wisconsin teams last year it appeared the Wisconsin kids were just slower in every aspect, races to the pucks, break-outs etc, it was VERY noticeable the pace of the games was just a couple of levels below MN...to my eyes anyway.

Hope you don't mind me interjecting, as I am not trying to pick sides in this discussion, but I thought I would point out that Notre Dame and Superior both played East Grand Forks this season. Notre Dame defeated them, while Superior lost to them. Both were close games.

Both teams play some of the top tier MNHS teams. While I agree with you that Superior probably plays the tougher schedule (just looking at MNHS opponents), Superior did also lose to Duluth Denfeld this year (my 90th ranked team in MNHS overall). They aren't one of the two strong Duluth programs.

I'll give Superior credit as they do schedule some perennial MNHS powers (Duluth East and Hermantown are also on their schedule this year), but this season at least I have to agree with Gurt that Notre Dame is the better team IMO.

Hard to judge all of high school hockey by the state tourney. The only teams competing there are the best of the best. Try watching some of the small schools in Southern MN play (outside a handful of programs, they are pretty bad). Doesn't mean there haven't been some great players to come out of those schools.

There have been a TON of great players in MNHS hockey that never made it to the tourney. There are also plenty of players from year-to-year in WIHS hockey that wouldn't look out of place at all playing in the MNHS Tourney. Like Gurt said, it's the depth of those players that is the big difference.
 
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Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse

Hope you don't mind me interjecting, as I am not trying to pick sides in this discussion, but I thought I would point out that Notre Dame and Superior both played East Grand Forks this season. Notre Dame defeated them, while Superior lost to them. Both were close games.

Both teams play some of the top tier MNHS teams. While I agree with you that Superior probably plays the tougher schedule (just looking at MNHS opponents), Superior did also lose to Duluth Denfeld this year (my 90th ranked team in MNHS overall). They aren't one of the two strong Duluth programs.

I'll give Superior credit as they do schedule some perennial MNHS powers (Duluth East and Hermantown are also on their schedule this year), but this season at least I have to agree with Gurt that Notre Dame is the better team IMO.

Hard to judge all of high school hockey by the state tourney. The only teams competing there are the best of the best. Try watching some of the small schools in Southern MN play (outside a handful of programs, they are pretty bad). Doesn't mean there haven't been some great players to come out of those schools.

There have been a TON of great players in MNHS hockey that never made it to the tourney. There are also plenty of players from year-to-year in WIHS hockey that wouldn't look out of place at all playing in the MNHS Tourney. Like Gurt said, it's the depth of those players that is the big difference.

no problem! I'm speaking generally when I talk about Superior. Maybe this year their team is young (or there's that excuse again;)) or maybe not as talented but overall in any 5-year stretch I'd take them against any other Wisconsin HS team. I've also seen Superior come down to Madison and dominate territorial play and SOG but lose to a goalie playing out-of-his-mind, and despite the losses there was no question I think to anyone watching the game who was the better team

in the HS tournaments when it's the best of the best I'd argue what I've seen the past several years is the pace of play in Minnesota is so much higher than Wisconsin's it's almost a joke, while watching the WI title game last season I was shocked at how slow those teams were playing. The breakouts were nothing close to the tempo I was seeing from Benilde and AHA (name your MN tourney team) and that really underscores to me how much work WI HS and youth coaches have in front of them to push Wisconsin Hockey programs forward.
 
Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse

A couple of thoughts regarding Wis HS Hockey vs Mn HS Hockey. I believe there are few quality HS teams in Wisconsin. This fact slows the development of Wisconsin hockey players. Too many non competitive games, this might be due to league affiliations or geography. Sure would be nice to see a Super League in Wisconsin High School hockey.

The top 4 teams in Minnesota 2a have a total of 10 losses between them. (#1 Edina has 3 losses, #2 Wayzata has 3 losses). The top 4 teams in Wisconsin have a total of 1 loss and 3 ties. They just play tougher schedules in Minny. Give credit to some Wis teams for trying to schedule tougher teams and participating in Minnesota Holiday tournaments.

Players coming out of Wisconsin HS hockey need Junior Hockey experience to help offset this. Someone mentioned, "Look at #26, scored 2000 goals in HS but at D1?" Bringing in #26 early was a mistake by Eaves, should have spent 2 years in Junior Hockey and this would be his Freshman year. Also, can't see recruiting 14 or 15 yo.
 
Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse

no problem! I'm speaking generally when I talk about Superior. Maybe this year their team is young (or there's that excuse again;)) or maybe not as talented but overall in any 5-year stretch I'd take them against any other Wisconsin HS team. I've also seen Superior come down to Madison and dominate territorial play and SOG but lose to a goalie playing out-of-his-mind, and despite the losses there was no question I think to anyone watching the game who was the better team

in the HS tournaments when it's the best of the best I'd argue what I've seen the past several years is the pace of play in Minnesota is so much higher than Wisconsin's it's almost a joke, while watching the WI title game last season I was shocked at how slow those teams were playing. The breakouts were nothing close to the tempo I was seeing from Benilde and AHA (name your MN tourney team) and that really underscores to me how much work WI HS and youth coaches have in front of them to push Wisconsin Hockey programs forward.


Notre Dame would wipe up the ice with Superior, this year and last.

The state championship game last year was not indicative of those two teams' speed of play. I was at it and was surprised at how bad (and slow) both teams looked, but especially Verona. Turns out, Verona expended all their energy the night before in taking down Notre Dame (despite being outshot by a big margin).`

Verona played Eau Claire Memorial (rematch of state) over this Christmas break in Rochester and it was a very fast, up and down game - nothing like last year's title game. Both of those teams have quality players that as MSH said, wouldn't look at all out of place in high level Minnesota HS hockey. What they may not have is 3 lines of such players.

We always heard in youth hockey how Superior and Hudson would just crush all of us coz they play so much in Minnesota. Well, they didn't. Would say it was about even over the years.

Not saying that Superior HS isn't traditionally a strong Wisconsin program, but they're not alone at the top by any stretch.
 
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Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse

I'm at Wayzata/Hill Murray tonight to see Freytag (and others, obviously).
 
Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse

I'm at Wayzata/Hill Murray tonight to see Freytag (and others, obviously).

Freytag didn't knock my socks off tonight. He's a power wing, that's obvious. He's not afraid to lay the body and plays well in the corner. He's got a next-level type shot, he just never really got an opportunity to get it off tonight. Would like to see him create more of his own offense, didn't see any of that. Skates well enough to be effective. He's coming off that back injury from the fall, hard to say how much that's still affecting him. I'd put him in the Tyler Barnes mold with a better shot down the road.

If we're being honest with ourselves, he wasn't the best player on his own team. I'd give that nod to sophomore Max Zimmer.
 
Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse

Too bad Maine got this kid. We could have put him on stilts, drew a beard on him and brought him in next year.
 
Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. XXVI: Make him an offer he can't refuse

Seriously ... recruiting a 13 yr old. This is beyond ridiculous now. NCAA needs to put an end to this early verbal commitment and the handshake agreement between coaches not to recruit others verbal commitments. Sonny Milano decomitting from ND and signing with Boston is a prime reason this nonsense needs to end. Then programs like Wisco wouldn't find themselves in the position that they now are in with needing 6 or more fowards for a coming season.

Some of the players these programs are stockpiling makes you wonder what the parents of these players are thinking themselves. North Dakota for instance has more players committed for the 2014 season than they can take in during the next two seasons.

The insanity needs to end.
 
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