Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

[IndianaBadger1995]

They should be looking at the number of recruits as part of the big picture. Idea of playing and actually playing are totally different.

If they are truly good enough to make the NHL they will play. If they can't beat out some kids for a spot then it's in their best interest to either wait a year, transfer or not commit at all. The majority of the defense this past year isn't going to cut it. Guys like Linhart on the 1st pairing are reasons Wisconsin didn't go far. There are spots to be had right now and as others have mentioned, a lot of Eaves' recruits probably won't see the ice at the KC. How many of those 34 recruits are coming in next year compared to the other big ten schools? The year after? The year after that?

 

[markwojo]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

Actually it is VERY different from elsewhere - other Big Ten recruits for 2017-2020 are 17, 17, 18, 20 and 22. Wisconsin is currently at 34 - double the amount of recruits. I totally get they are trying to rebuild the program and are offering at a very aggressive rate but this will eventually come to pay the piper at some point. They are overrecruiting and that will reflect negatively when they have to defer ore decommit a huge number of kids. Its also a huge red flag to any recruit coming up if they look at the numbers....

So the other Big 10 programs are done recruiting for those years? Pretty sure 17, 17, 18, 20, and 22 will be increasing unless those teams are going to play 9-10 short. Most teams roster 15-17 forwards 8ish D, and 2-3 G. That on the low end is 25. Maybe G2O plan on having kids leave for the pros a little more frequently then some of their peers? Maybe a few of those programs have gone through some staff changes and haven't gotten after it on the recruiting trail that effectively? Weekend at Berenson's has been in his mid 70's for like a decade and turning over assistants. MSU has been in free fall for a while.

While 34 seems like a tremendous number, look at the projected recruiting charts someone around here does a great job of keeping updated. Subtract out a couple forward recruits (again I think that will sort itself out shortly) from next year going forward and the numbers look right on. The D look a guy or even two to heavy, but the reality is that that was the place where Eaves really dropped the ball and the level of guys he brought in just weren't where they should be at UW or honestly a D1 program. Jack Dougherty bailing after one season really exposed how poorly Eaves had recruited on D where we ended up with walkons and converted forwards playing D the last 2 seasons.

 

[Lemonade]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

So the other Big 10 programs are done recruiting for those years? Pretty sure 17, 17, 18, 20, and 22 will be increasing unless those teams are going to play 9-10 short. Most teams roster 15-17 forwards 8ish D, and 2-3 G. That on the low end is 25. Maybe G2O plan on having kids leave for the pros a little more frequently then some of their peers? Maybe a few of those programs have gone through some staff changes and haven't gotten after it on the recruiting trail that effectively? Weekend at Berenson's has been in his mid 70's for like a decade and turning over assistants. MSU has been in free fall for a while.

While 34 seems like a tremendous number, look at the projected recruiting charts someone around here does a great job of keeping updated. Subtract out a couple forward recruits (again I think that will sort itself out shortly) from next year going forward and the numbers look right on. The D look a guy or even two to heavy, but the reality is that that was the place where Eaves really dropped the ball and the level of guys he brought in just weren't where they should be at UW or honestly a D1 program. Jack Dougherty bailing after one season really exposed how poorly Eaves had recruited on D where we ended up with walkons and converted forwards playing D the last 2 seasons.

Except your numbers arent close to being correct - typically a senior class graduates and freshman class comes in to fill those spot. For example, Wisconsin had 5 seniors graduate this year - thus opening up 5 spots for incoming freshman. They have 8 recruits listed as 2017 so 3 will be deferred or will have to see if anyone else leaves. They have 7 juniors on squad and 11 2018 recruits lists + 3 leftovers from 2017 class so you are now at 7 kids hanging out in the wind.

 

[bucky15]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

Except your numbers arent close to being correct - typically a senior class graduates and freshman class comes in to fill those spot. For example, Wisconsin had 5 seniors graduate this year - thus opening up 5 spots for incoming freshman. They have 8 recruits listed as 2017 so 3 will be deferred or will have to see if anyone else leaves. They have 7 juniors on squad and 11 2018 recruits lists + 3 leftovers from 2017 class so you are now at 7 kids hanging out in the wind.

Next year, the forwards are right where they should be 15. If you look at GWHINWI's wonderful chart that he has been managing for us. You can see UW is 2 over the ideal number next year for D. Hurley played 18 games, Sexton played 13 games and Bunz 9 games. These 3 D returning will be fighting for ice with the D coming in. They possibly may not be on the roster at all. The following year 18/19, you can almost take off Sexton and Bunz as seniors. Tischke is a serious flight risk and Greenway also is a slight flight risk. That gets the number for 18/19 at 9 for D. For the forwards at 18/19, Bliss and Abate probably don't make it to campus and Frederic is a serious flight risk. That puts the number at 15.

If someone were to continue this through out the years, it really isn't as bad as it appears.

 

[KaMiGo]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

Except your numbers arent close to being correct - typically a senior class graduates and freshman class comes in to fill those spot. For example, Wisconsin had 5 seniors graduate this year - thus opening up 5 spots for incoming freshman. They have 8 recruits listed as 2017 so 3 will be deferred or will have to see if anyone else leaves. They have 7 juniors on squad and 11 2018 recruits lists + 3 leftovers from 2017 class so you are now at 7 kids hanging out in the wind.

It is nice that you care, but why do you care?
Why does someone who spends almost all of their time in BU and UNH threads care about UW recruiting? You jumped in a few months ago with the same comment and nobody seemed to care then

PR hit? Wisconsin is in the red zone when it comes to over committing players now. They have a ton of verbal commits and that lends itself to having to back out on offers as you mentioned. Doing that kills your reputation in the hockey/advisor world and good luck getting kids to commit there when they have a poor reputation of how they treat verbal commits.

It looks like nobody seems to agree with you now.

Wisconsin is far from the only team with lots and lots of recruits on the books right now. Looking at the information from College Hockey Inc, there are 8 teams with 10 or less commits on the books.
University of Alaska-Fairbanks Nanooks 7
Ferris State University Bulldogs 7
University of Alabama-Huntsville Chargers 8
Robert Morris University Colonials 8
Northern Michigan University Wildcats 9
University of Nebraska-Omaha Mavericks 10
College of the Holy Cross Crusaders 10
Niagara University Purple Eagles 10

There are also 8 teams with more than 25
Michigan Tech University Huskies 26
Colorado College Tigers 26
Quinnipiac University Bobcats 27
University of Notre Dame Fighting Irish 27
University of Maine Black Bears 28
Harvard University Crimson 30
Northeastern University Huskies 31
University of Wisconsin Badgers 33

You can look at those teams and pretty clearly say that the second set of teams is better on the average than the first set of teams. Average winning % over the last 4 seasons for the first set (0.444) vs the second set (0.514) backs that up pretty clearly.

It has been said many times that there is a great deal of flux in the process of recruiting. Coaching staffs change and some players move around. Player development changes and players move around. Personal issues change and players move around. Good teams will attract good players, even (especially?) if they know that there is going to be competition.

 

[Great Day for Hockey]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

Well said gentlemen. Hockey recruiting these days isn't as simple as, we have 5 seniors leaving so we can only bring in 5 next year. Players on the current roster are being replaced also. It happens with coaching changes. There's going to be plenty of upperclassmen the next couple years that won't be seeing a lot of ice time if they stick around. Now with the addition of Joshua Ess next year does anyone think there's a chance that Davison (and maybe Bunz in 2018) goes the way of Jordan Hill and transfers out as a graduate? It also seems safe to say that the Mike Eaves 4 year cycle of unbalanced classes has been taken care of.

 

[gwhinwi]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

Well said gentlemen. Hockey recruiting these days isn't as simple as, we have 5 seniors leaving so we can only bring in 5 next year. Players on the current roster are being replaced also. It happens with coaching changes. There's going to be plenty of upperclassmen the next couple years that won't be seeing a lot of ice time if they stick around. Now with the addition of Joshua Ess next year does anyone think there's a chance that Davison (and maybe Bunz in 2018) goes the way of Jordan Hill and transfers out as a graduate? It also seems safe to say that the Mike Eaves 4 year cycle of unbalanced classes has been taken care of.

Exactly. Eaves, 5-out-5-in strategy is what ended up hurting the program so much. When one or two left early, that next "cycle" was bound to be a poor one and they were left scrambling to fill the spots (which is not the ideal recruiting situation.)

What strikes me is how quickly the unbalanced classes seem to have been cleaned up. That is a tremendous testament to the work that G2O has done in their recruiting work to this point.

 

[markwojo]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

so wait....the sky isn't falling? Way to make "Lemonade" out of lemons. So in summary, year two of a transition to a new staff will likely see another guy or two on the current roster depart, a couple recruits committed to by the former staff will not end up on campus, guys like Bunz will go back to being walkon's that don't play unless there is an emergency, and we will no longer be scrambling for walk on level talent when a guy decides to leave after a year instead of the anticipated 2 years Leave it to Eaver thought was going to happen. Awesome. Now go get Rizzo so we can have some more howling over numbers and teeth gnashing!!!!

Oh and we are worked up over kids that are 15, 16, 17 years old that "might" be coming in 2 or 3 years. The vast majority of kids are not stepping into a D1 college program at 18, their first year post secondary education. While hopefully some will, it is a pretty good bet some of these kids will need a year or two of junior and not even arrive when they are tentatively projected at this point.

 

[Lemonade]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

It is nice that you care, but why do you care?
Why does someone who spends almost all of their time in BU and UNH threads care about UW recruiting? You jumped in a few months ago with the same comment and nobody seemed to care then

It looks like nobody seems to agree with you now.

Wisconsin is far from the only team with lots and lots of recruits on the books right now. Looking at the information from College Hockey Inc, there are 8 teams with 10 or less commits on the books.
University of Alaska-Fairbanks Nanooks 7
Ferris State University Bulldogs 7
University of Alabama-Huntsville Chargers 8
Robert Morris University Colonials 8
Northern Michigan University Wildcats 9
University of Nebraska-Omaha Mavericks 10
College of the Holy Cross Crusaders 10
Niagara University Purple Eagles 10

There are also 8 teams with more than 25
Michigan Tech University Huskies 26
Colorado College Tigers 26
Quinnipiac University Bobcats 27
University of Notre Dame Fighting Irish 27
University of Maine Black Bears 28
Harvard University Crimson 30
Northeastern University Huskies 31
University of Wisconsin Badgers 33

You can look at those teams and pretty clearly say that the second set of teams is better on the average than the first set of teams. Average winning % over the last 4 seasons for the first set (0.444) vs the second set (0.514) backs that up pretty clearly.

It has been said many times that there is a great deal of flux in the process of recruiting. Coaching staffs change and some players move around. Player development changes and players move around. Personal issues change and players move around. Good teams will attract good players, even (especially?) if they know that there is going to be competition.

Last time I checked this is a college hockey board not just a Wisconsin board. Recruiting and overrecruiting in particular are big topics in the college hockey world so its worth a discussion when one program has the most "commits" in the country at this point.

 

[WiscTJK]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

Last time I checked this is a college hockey board not just a Wisconsin board. Recruiting and overrecruiting in particular are big topics in the college hockey world so its worth a discussion when one program has the most "commits" in the country at this point.

start your own thread on the topic and quit trolling the Wisconsin thread.

I am pretty sure G2O know what they are doing. And I think others on here have answered your questions.

 

[markwojo]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

Last time I checked this is a college hockey board not just a Wisconsin board. Recruiting and overrecruiting in particular are big topics in the college hockey world so its worth a discussion when one program has the most "commits" in the country at this point.

Please stop the chicken little the sky is falling shtick....at least on the Wisconsin recruiting thread where most of us are going to get updates on actual Wisconsin recruiting news. If you want to discuss "over recruiting" on a "college hockey board" with the length and breath you seem to want to....start your own thread about Wisconsin "over recruiting"....or better yet "over recruiting" in general and discuss it to your hearts content.

If you can't or won't comprehend that kids that are currently in the program very likely are in the process of leaving (or at the very least will go back to a walk on role they came in as instead of actually having to play out of necessity), some of Eaves forward "commits" are never coming (and probably know full well at this point.....not really cool to put out a tweet that I won't be taking my services to Madison without actually having a destination already lined up), then this conversation is disingenuous. People here have tried to explain two or 3 recruits that likely never come (Abate, Bliss, and maybe even Mersch), guys that have played some (Bunz, Davidson) but likely won't be going forward (Bunz is a freaking walk on!!) and guys we have a pretty good idea won't be here through their senior year (Fredrick/Tischke) not even getting into there has definitely been an uptick with the new staff in the quality of recruits that likely leads to more frequent early departures.

 

[MadCityRich]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

Hey boys, go easy on him. After all boys, UNH has such a rich history, Lemoncurd must know what he's talking about.

They DO have (wait NO national championships and one time in the N/C game?) actually nuthin', boys.

 

[MadCityRich]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

On Waubesa I caught a 24" whopper opening weekend that T-boned a shallow raider at boatside and my daughter got a 47" opening day with the help of her brothers on a pink and white beetle spin on a 5-6 rod with 8# test. That was quite the intense battle, but we got it in the boat.

I've been pounding a local lake here in Dodge County that I know they are in and I am very determined to pull one out of this lake this year. So far "only" nice pike and largemouth bass to show for the effort, still lots of fun to catch.

We've been reading books by Gelb, Heiting/Saric and doing lunar phase targeted periods as much as we can with work of course getting in the way, though local weather seems to be trumping lunar phase when we are out.

Have you been out on the hunt for the toothy critters?

One time (opener) in Vilas Co. where my bro' lives. Quick story, I slipped on some ice on a pier that weekend and, not knowing at the time, shredded my twice previously surgically repaired knee. Doc says it's time for a total knee replacement in July. I'm staying out of boats and taking it easy until the robot fixes my knee!!

 

[bucky15]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

One time (opener) in Vilas Co. where my bro' lives. Quick story, I slipped on some ice on a pier that weekend and, not knowing at the time, shredded my twice previously surgically repaired knee. Doc says it's time for a total knee replacement in July. I'm staying out of boats and taking it easy until the robot fixes my knee!!

There goes your beer league career. Bummer

 

[MadCityRich]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

There goes your beer league career. Bummer

That Zamboni has sailed.

 

[solovsfett]

Last time I checked this is a college hockey board not just a Wisconsin board. Recruiting and overrecruiting in particular are big topics in the college hockey world so its worth a discussion when one program has the most "commits" in the country at this point.

Oseicki is the best recruiter in the NCAA. His recruits got Wisconsin to two title games in 5 years (06 and 10). He's doing great. 34 recruits ina 4-year span sounds like they expect early departures or don't want to get caught out like Eaces did. Also some Eaves recruits will wash out or not arrive on campus.

Either way sounds like G2O have you all riled up. That means they're doing a great job. UW will be a perennial top 10 team sooner than we had hoped.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

Oseicki is the best recruiter in the NCAA. His recruits got Wisconsin to two title games in 5 years (06 and 10). He's doing great. 34 recruits ina 4-year span sounds like they expect early departures or don't want to get caught out like Eaces did. Also some Eaves recruits will wash out or not arrive on campus.

Either way sounds like G2O have you all riled up. That means they're doing a great job. UW will be a perennial top 10 team sooner than we had hoped.

Agreed. UW is all about getting the best players, expecting them to leave early and have their replacement already signed up. We're in for a fantastic ride boys and girls.

 

[DPlaya]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

A Wisconsin hockey fan’s guide to the NHL Entry Draft

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

I'm kinda happy with a 5th rounder and 3 7ths, could translate into some 3 to 4 year players. I love GO's philosophy of bring them in fast and furious, then get them out as soon as they are ready, but I personally bond as a fan with the guys who are there for longer.

 

[markwojo]

Re: Wisconsin Recruiting Vol. III - Building a better tomorrow...today!

BREAKING NEWS: @MassimoRizzo28 has committed to the @bchllive Vees and will wear number 13 when the puck drops next season #veesnation #BCHL