Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVIII: This could be a banner year, but how would we know?

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVIII: This could be a banner year, but how would we know?

I am concerned about the third line... I'm not sure what needs to be done there, but it is concerning. With 20/20 hindsight it's easy for me to say that with Paape dogging Ambroz all weekend we might have been much better off. On the other hand, if Besse is going to come along, develop and contribute, he has to play...
Anybody have any suggestions as to how to shake things up there?

I don't have a problem with the third line personally. They were the line that set the tone for the Kerdiles goal Saturday. That line (and Besse specifically) controlled offensive zone time for about a minute and a half, changed, Kerdiles' line came on the ice, Faust stole the puck and set up the eventual goal that put UW up 2-1. Even though Besse wasn't on the ice when the goal was scored it, his lines play set the tone during that stretch that they scored on.

Eaves did shake things up a bit during the game with the lines at times. There were a few shifts when Meuer centered Besse and Little and Dahl went between Navin and Soleway. Towards the end of the game Kerdiles even saw some shifts with Zengerle.

I'm not a huge fan of the plus/minus stat, but only one of Wisconsin's bottom six forwards (Dahl) is a minus player at this point in the season, and he's a -1. Everyone else is an even player or better, including Besse at +1. If they were giving up goals I'd be concerned, but they aren't.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVIII: This could be a banner year, but how would we know?

Wisko - I give a crap about winning the B1G also.

However, I'd like to have a good enough regular season that we are in the NCAA Tourney without having to win our conference tourney as that's a tall order to rely upon.

Agreed. I'm just saying let's not panic.

The top sixteen last year finished with an average of over 15.5 non wins. (losses plus ties) Only Q and MN finished with single digit losses. (8 & 9). St Cloud had 16 losses. Yale won it all and entered the NCAA's with a 19-12-3 record...

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVIII: This could be a banner year, but how would we know?

The Pairwise doesn't care when the 4-5-1 type run happens in the season, just that it happened. UW fans know better the dangers of being on the bubble more than any other fanbase after the last 6 or 7 seasons and how Saturday's game could come back to bite them at the end of the year but it's far to early to write off the whole season just because of a lackluster start. It's important to remember that very few teams can go wire-to-wire as the number one team without some hiccup, although it is far easier to weather those hiccups (both as a fan and as a player) when you already have a track record of winning that season.

It's also completely unfair to place any of the blame for Sauer's final 8 seasons on Eaves. If you want to hang the man, at least have the decency to use his record while as head coach to do it.

I take it you're referring to my earlier comments w/the Sauer thing. I was asked by EODS to draw a comparison of Sauer's final teams against Eaves' track record. I think it's worth noting that between Sauer's final years and the entire Eaves era UW has NOT been a national power in hockey on an annual basis since 1993-94. That to me is shocking.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVIII: This could be a banner year, but how would we know?

No one should be happy with 4-5-1, but they have played the second toughest schedule in the country to this point. That fact seems to be lost on some.

I think it may have been viewed as tough looking at it in pre-season but we're finding Miami is no longer ranked, BU is 7-6-1, NMU and LSSU are teams UW needs to beat (especially given the banging of the drums as to how good UW would be). So really it's BC and MN as the real measuring sticks thusfar.

Now they've got some easy teams coming in, I'd like to see them go 7-1 there but we'll see.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVIII: This could be a banner year, but how would we know?

I really don't get the blow up on the program today after one conference series. Were you guys expecting to sweep Minnesota and Miami on the road? Because I sure wasn't. Especially considering they are probably statistically the two toughest places to play in the country.
We split Miami convincingly. Say what you want about Friday but yesterday we give the goofs 5 straight PP's and are tied ON THE ROAD with 30 seconds left. Nothing to be ashamed of there. So is it because Mersch turns over the puck and we lost? Is that what we're all fired up about?

Or is it still the Boston Massacre? Didn't see it, can't explain it. But it's getting late to be still be *****ing about it now.

I honestly don't get why today.

One of my favorite Badger teams, the '83 champs started 6-5-2 splitting the gophers and getting crushed by UND 6-2 and 4-0. (I'm partial to them because it was my first WCHA tournament, my older brother having been in college and taking me.) If I recall, consensus was strong that the Badgers were the third best team there. I've recounted how Chelios put us into the finals over UND elsewhere. We proceeded to blow away #1 Minnesota 5-1 and came back the next day to down them 3-2 in a packed St Paul Civic Center. We weren't the best team in November by a long shot, but we were the Champs by the end of March, which is all that matters.

Big difference there is that in 1983 UW was a power, they'd just won it all in 81 and were runner's up in 82. I think that start may have had some people grumbling a bit about the new coach but I don't think there was ever a doubt they had the horses. Not saying they don't have the horses (though I do feel they're 2-3 guys short of being Boston College good) to make a run but the track record in the last 2-3 seasons building to this season doesn't really make much of a statement.

 

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVIII: This could be a banner year, but how would we know?

I think it may have been viewed as tough looking at it in pre-season but we're finding Miami is no longer ranked, BU is 7-6-1, NMU and LSSU are teams UW needs to beat (especially given the banging of the drums as to how good UW would be). So really it's BC and MN as the real measuring sticks thusfar.

Now they've got some easy teams coming in, I'd like to see them go 7-1 there but we'll see.

I was basing it off fact so far. Based on the computers Wisconsin has faced the second hardest schedule by both the KRACH ranking and the RPI.

FWIW, here are the RPI's and KRACH rankings for the opponents so far.

Minnesota -- RPI (1) KRACH (1)
Lake Superior State -- RPI (7) KRACH (10)
Boston College -- RPI (11) KRACH (8)
Miami -- RPI (12) KRACH (12)
Boston University -- RPI (25) KRACH (24)
NMU -- RPI (30) KRACH (32)

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVIII: This could be a banner year, but how would we know?

I think it may have been viewed as tough looking at it in pre-season but we're finding Miami is no longer ranked, BU is 7-6-1, NMU and LSSU are teams UW needs to beat (especially given the banging of the drums as to how good UW would be). So really it's BC and MN as the real measuring sticks thusfar.

Now they've got some easy teams coming in, I'd like to see them go 7-1 there but we'll see.

He's talking about current strength of schedule in RPI / Miami is 14th in RPI and LSSU 7th. BC 10th.


EDIT: What Chuck said.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVIII: This could be a banner year, but how would we know?

I was basing it off fact so far. Based on the computers Wisconsin has faced the second hardest schedule by both the KRACH ranking and the RPI.

FWIW, here are the RPI's and KRACH rankings for the opponents so far.

Minnesota -- RPI (1) KRACH (1)
Lake Superior State -- RPI (7) KRACH (10)
Boston College -- RPI (11) KRACH (8)
Miami -- RPI (12) KRACH (12)
Boston University -- RPI (25) KRACH (24)
NMU -- RPI (30) KRACH (32)

interesting, is that as of today? or pre-season? Either way I look at it though with Wisconsin being built up to be this frozen four contender "this is the year" type stuff I'd look at those RPI/KRACH numbers and say sweep NMU, beat BU, split at Miami, lose to BC, sweep LSSU and split at Minnesota. 7-3 sound right? I know you don't care for the negativity on this team but at this point I'm a show me the $ guy, they need to get out there and win games, period.

 

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVIII: This could be a banner year, but how would we know?

interesting, is that as of today? or pre-season? Either way I look at it though with Wisconsin being built up to be this frozen four contender "this is the year" type stuff I'd look at those RPI/KRACH numbers and say sweep NMU, beat BU, split at Miami, lose to BC, sweep LSSU and split at Minnesota. 7-3 sound right? I know you don't care for the negativity on this team but at this point I'm a show me the $ guy, they need to get out there and win games, period.

Those are the numbers up to the minute that I just pulled from SiouxSports.com (Jim Dahl does a great job compiling rankings).

I'm not saying yours (or anyone's) analysis that this team has under performed through 10 games is wrong. I actually agree with that 100 percent. The team and coaches would agree with you.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVIII: This could be a banner year, but how would we know?

say sweep NMU, beat BU, split at Miami, lose to BC, sweep LSSU and split at Minnesota. 7-3 sound right? .

It's today I believe. But regardless I'd say that this sounds very reasonable. It's hard to say about LSSU, as they're looking pretty good outside of us shaking them up, so I could maybe live with the tie. So that would make it 6-3-1.

From there we have the loss to BU where we doubled them up in shots, and didn't have Rumps. Didn't see it. Maybe we get waxed anyway. Should not have lost.

Then that leaves yesterday's game... Freakish finish but we lost, and a loss is a loss. I'm disappointed too, but not devastated.

Our expectations aren't that different solo, I'm just easier on the puck bounces or something I suppose. Either way, we agree we have to get out there and win this week.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVIII: This could be a banner year, but how would we know?

I don't have a problem with the third line personally. They were the line that set the tone for the Kerdiles goal Saturday. That line (and Besse specifically) controlled offensive zone time for about a minute and a half, changed, Kerdiles' line came on the ice, Faust stole the puck and set up the eventual goal that put UW up 2-1. Even though Besse wasn't on the ice when the goal was scored it, his lines play set the tone during that stretch that they scored on.

Eaves did shake things up a bit during the game with the lines at times. There were a few shifts when Meuer centered Besse and Little and Dahl went between Navin and Soleway. Towards the end of the game Kerdiles even saw some shifts with Zengerle.

I'm not a huge fan of the plus/minus stat, but only one of Wisconsin's bottom six forwards (Dahl) is a minus player at this point in the season, and he's a -1. Everyone else is an even player or better, including Besse at +1. If they were giving up goals I'd be concerned, but they aren't.

I'm with you on the part before Kerdiles goal. I think that my feeling is that over the last four games we are not seeing as much of that type of play as I expected, or we need. That line has got to do just what they did there consistently. I'm completely open to the idea that they need more ice time. I noticed the changes, but I can't say if they were situational or just Eaves shuffling to try to get something more going. If not situational then I'd say Eaves is still looking for the right combo on the bottom six as well...

 

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVIII: This could be a banner year, but how would we know?

I'm with you on the part before Kerdiles goal. I think that my feeling is that over the last four games we are not seeing as much of that type of play as I expected, or we need. That line has got to do just what they did there consistently. I'm completely open to the idea that they need more ice time. I noticed the changes, but I can't say if they were situational or just Eaves shuffling to try to get something more going. If not situational then I'd say Eaves is still looking for the right combo on the bottom six as well...

Forgot to note Besse should have had an assist Saturday -- he set up Soleway with a dandy of a pass to the back door that should have been an easy tap in during the first period. Soleway whiffed on the puck...must have got excited looking at all that open net. I think it was at the tail end of Wisconsin's only power play.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVIII: This could be a banner year, but how would we know?

Forgot to note Besse should have had an assist Saturday -- he set up Soleway with a dandy of a pass to the back door that should have been an easy tap in during the first period. Soleway whiffed on the puck...must have got excited looking at all that open net. I think it was at the tail end of Wisconsin's only power play.

I was out of the recliner on that one... but of course, it doesn't count.
I mean if Eaves didn't seem to be confused about my remaining eligibility, I'm pretty sure I would at least have had one more assist this weekend, too. Just sayin' me and Besse are pretty much in the same boat on that...

I'm hopeful that this long home stand is really helpful to Besse and Soleway. I think Dahl has got to center that line, (experience, attitude, face off ability) but it's a big task bringing along these two freshman, especially Besse. I think earlier Gurt made the comparison to the Goofs freshman contributing right away... As far as Besse compares: Kloos was 2012 Mr. Hockey, then played a full USHL season where he was 2nd in scoring overall. Fasching played the last two on the US development squad. Connor Reilly is 21yr old Freshman, out like Zullnick last year, a year in BCHL and a year in USHL prior to that. Big difference in what Besse is trying to do.

(It's the best excuse I can think of at the moment Gurt. But give me time! )

 

[markwojo]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVIII: This could be a banner year, but how would we know?

The script has yet to be written on what will be of this team. While I expected a big season coming in, and the start has been slightly....off, there is no reason that this team still can't have a great season. Up to this point, there has been a disjointed road heavy schedule against some pretty good competition. For this to be a "great" season....good competition will need to beaten when all is said and done. I did not like the way the team got blown out at BC, nor how lopsided the score was against BU (sorry but more shots, possessed the puck more, or had an off night in goaltending are hard to equate with a lopsided score), nor how we couldn't manage any points against a very young rodent team (and I get it was in their barn and that they are a pretty good team). All that said, I like the depth and experience on this team and hopefully we find our groove and go on a nice run of success.

What the hell was Mersch thinking? He had a chance to slide the puck behind the net initially (or hard wrap) and then on his mulligan he decides to put the puck into the middle of the ice in a tie game with 30 seconds left in your own zone.....sigh.

 

[WiscTJK]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVIII: This could be a banner year, but how would we know?

I guess I fall more toward the solosvett and gurt side of the coin. I am so sick of mediocrity being acceptable. So many down seasons since the 2006 NC. I am sick and tired of it. Against the good teams we have played, we are 1-5. And half of those games we didn't come prepared to play. Where is the coaching staff and player leaders on this team? How can you not be ready to play on a veteran team?

I want to be a national power house every year. I think our storied history demands this excellence. I also agree we now have a generation that hasn't seen Wisconsin Hockey as this powerhouse and that is truly a shame.

While this isn't as bad as the undisciplined last few years of the Sauer era, I have this continual feeling that the program continues a long slow decline since the early nineties. Eaves was the probably the right coach to replace Sauer (discipline vs no discipline) at the time, but his time has passed and it is time for new blood in my opinion. Someone that will raise this program back to where it truly belongs.

Maybe I am overreacting and overly negative, but I continue to see red flags. Which says nothing for the cluster we will have next year unless we find some hidden gems in the next few months of recruiting.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVIII: This could be a banner year, but how would we know?

What the hell was Mersch thinking? He had a chance to slide the puck behind the net initially (or hard wrap) and then on his mulligan he decides to put the puck into the middle of the ice in a tie game with 30 seconds left in your own zone.....sigh.

Looked to me like he had no legs and really was struggling to stride. Ironically, probably just wanted the puck off his stick so he didn't turn it over... Obviously better if he just fell on it. Like Chris Webber calling time out in the NCAA's... The play is just completely inexplicable.

If it had come from the other side and worked to Rumpel's gloveside, maybe he has a chance... but I doubt it. That one's going to hurt for a long time.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVIII: This could be a banner year, but how would we know?

Looked to me like he had no legs and really was struggling to stride. Ironically, probably just wanted the puck off his stick so he didn't turn it over... Obviously better if he just fell on it. Like Chris Webber calling time out in the NCAA's... The play is just completely inexplicable.

At this point, McCabe is thankful or his equally bad derp (where he fired it at the heels of his team mate right in front of our net) would be talked about. I can see a frosh doing that, but those two?

And Mersh always looks like he's pulling a sled out there. Dude is seriously slow.


It's good that he owned it though.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVIII: This could be a banner year, but how would we know?

I guess I fall more toward the solosvett and gurt side of the coin. I am so sick of mediocrity being acceptable. So many down seasons since the 2006 NC. I am sick and tired of it. Against the good teams we have played, we are 1-5. And half of those games we didn't come prepared to play. Where is the coaching staff and player leaders on this team? How can you not be ready to play on a veteran team?

This is probably what bothers me most.

You can't afford to take games off because you're going to lose some of the games that you play well.

 

[WiscTJK]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVIII: This could be a banner year, but how would we know?

One side note from the first big ten series is that I didn't think that the the officiating could get worse than the WCHA last year, but apparently I was wrong.

Gary Shuchuk noted Saturday after the game on the radio that the officials wouldn't even come over to the Badger bench to discuss the calls with the coaching staff.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVIII: This could be a banner year, but how would we know?

One side note from the first big ten series is that I didn't think that the the officiating could get worse than the WCHA last year, but apparently I was wrong.

Gary Shuchuk noted Saturday after the game on the radio that the officials wouldn't even come over to the Badger bench to discuss the calls with the coaching staff.

I don't what game Shuey was at, because after the Badgers one PP call they clearly showed Lucia and the ref next to each other discussing it!

Of course in Shuey's defense I'm not a lip reader... Lucia and Aaron were very probably discussing their dinner reservations.

EDIT: Also as far as Friday goes... we come out, score first, then the phantom whistlefest starts. You could say we didn't respond well... I'd agree with that, but like I said, it's hard to take much from that game either way.