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Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC
- Thread starter ExileOnDaytonStreet
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Chuck Schwartz
New member
Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC
Here is the line chart from Derek Stepan's first game as a Badger -- 4th line right wing. Finished the season second on the club in scoring. Absolutely ridiculous that Mike Eaves would bury him on the 4th line as an 18 y/o to ease him into college hockey. I wonder what the heck he was thinking there. Probably going to rot on the 4th line for the next four seasons because he's actually talented.
Believe it or not, these guys behind the bench know a thing or two about coaching hockey.
Here is the line chart from Derek Stepan's first game as a Badger -- 4th line right wing. Finished the season second on the club in scoring. Absolutely ridiculous that Mike Eaves would bury him on the 4th line as an 18 y/o to ease him into college hockey. I wonder what the heck he was thinking there. Probably going to rot on the 4th line for the next four seasons because he's actually talented.
Believe it or not, these guys behind the bench know a thing or two about coaching hockey.
solovsfett
Registered User
Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC
CHUCK! don't take criticism of Eaves too personally!...of course they know a thing or two about college hockey that's in part why they're coaches
if you also notice Ben Street (senior) is on the 4th line. I disagree with both Stepan and Street on the 4th line, in fact if you look at all 4 lines there in that sample you gave, there's a LOT to disagree with in terms of who is starting where (namely Street, Stepan and Mitchell). I mean thinking about that bit of history now...Street and Stepan on the 4th line is an absolute waste of their talents. they just weren't 4th line guys
but back to the subject at hand. I maintain Besse should be a 2nd line player to start and deserves every bit of a shot at it
CHUCK! don't take criticism of Eaves too personally!...of course they know a thing or two about college hockey that's in part why they're coaches
if you also notice Ben Street (senior) is on the 4th line. I disagree with both Stepan and Street on the 4th line, in fact if you look at all 4 lines there in that sample you gave, there's a LOT to disagree with in terms of who is starting where (namely Street, Stepan and Mitchell). I mean thinking about that bit of history now...Street and Stepan on the 4th line is an absolute waste of their talents. they just weren't 4th line guys
but back to the subject at hand. I maintain Besse should be a 2nd line player to start and deserves every bit of a shot at it
ExileOnDaytonStreet
Drunkard
Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC
Going back to Gorowsky: I know he grew a lot in his last two seasons, but isn't it also in part because IIRC he was put in a good situation being lined with Stepan and Davies for a good chunk of the year?
Going back to Gorowsky: I know he grew a lot in his last two seasons, but isn't it also in part because IIRC he was put in a good situation being lined with Stepan and Davies for a good chunk of the year?
Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC
So letting a true 18 year old frosh straight out of high school level competition (and that's all Shatuck is....glorified high school hockey) playing his first college game at a sold out BC (which just happens to be one of the premier college programs) ease into things with a senior center on the 4th line is a bad thing? I can't speak for that game specifically (I'm old and my pornographic....errr....ahhh....photographic memory escapes me sometimes), but Eaves doesn't exactly play his 4th line likes it's the pro's where his 4th line might get only a shift or two a period...he has traditionally rolled all 4 when he has deepish teams like that one was. Whatever Eaves did with Stepan....seemed to work out just fine. He ended up just a little shy of a point a game as a frosh and just over a point a game in his 2 years and I think most would have considered it a significant suprise that he managed to go straight from Madison to an NHL lineup in only 2 years with no precollege junior and not a single day in the AHL.
I get the frustration with Eaves...but lets direct it toward the right places. Unless he pulls a rabbit out of his hat and comes up with a couple ready made college upper classmen (transfers?) and a couple high end impact frosh (of which I'm not sure they are out there at this point minus a late bloomer), next season is lining up to be the third round of bust in the boom and bust cycle that has been the hallmark of Eaves tenure. Veteran fairly deep teams that have success (which should be the case this year), followed by a couple years of very young teams having at best mediocrity for results.
CHUCK! don't take criticism of Eaves too personally!...of course they know a thing or two about college hockey that's in part why they're coaches
if you also notice Ben Street (senior) is on the 4th line. I disagree with both Stepan and Street on the 4th line, in fact if you look at all 4 lines there in that sample you gave, there's a LOT to disagree with in terms of who is starting where (namely Street, Stepan and Mitchell). I mean thinking about that bit of history now...Street and Stepan on the 4th line is an absolute waste of their talents. they just weren't 4th line guys
but back to the subject at hand. I maintain Besse should be a 2nd line player to start and deserves every bit of a shot at it
So letting a true 18 year old frosh straight out of high school level competition (and that's all Shatuck is....glorified high school hockey) playing his first college game at a sold out BC (which just happens to be one of the premier college programs) ease into things with a senior center on the 4th line is a bad thing? I can't speak for that game specifically (I'm old and my pornographic....errr....ahhh....photographic memory escapes me sometimes), but Eaves doesn't exactly play his 4th line likes it's the pro's where his 4th line might get only a shift or two a period...he has traditionally rolled all 4 when he has deepish teams like that one was. Whatever Eaves did with Stepan....seemed to work out just fine. He ended up just a little shy of a point a game as a frosh and just over a point a game in his 2 years and I think most would have considered it a significant suprise that he managed to go straight from Madison to an NHL lineup in only 2 years with no precollege junior and not a single day in the AHL.
I get the frustration with Eaves...but lets direct it toward the right places. Unless he pulls a rabbit out of his hat and comes up with a couple ready made college upper classmen (transfers?) and a couple high end impact frosh (of which I'm not sure they are out there at this point minus a late bloomer), next season is lining up to be the third round of bust in the boom and bust cycle that has been the hallmark of Eaves tenure. Veteran fairly deep teams that have success (which should be the case this year), followed by a couple years of very young teams having at best mediocrity for results.
Timothy A
Let's go RED!
Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC
Exactly. If you stick a scorer on the 4th line with guys who don't have the ability set him up or don't have the ability to get into position to finish what the scorer sets up, how is the scorer going to score? Plus the 4th line generally gets the lowest amount of ice time.
My point is that Besse can't end up there long-term, (but can start there short term). I'm just being paranoid about the 4th line thing from what we've all seen in the past in regards to some players. I think he'll end up on the 3rd line sooner than later, but you never know.
Player development.....I give Eaves little credit when a highly touted guy comes in and delivers. I want to see more John Mitchell/Adam Burish type development out of players like Navin, Meuer, Paape, Cavallini and McGuire. Not all these guys will get to that level, but UW needs more than 1 to make that next step in development. Aside from Mitchell and Burish, who has taken the next step under Eaves? Maybe Woods would have, had he not left. And I am critical of Eaves when a guy like Gorowsky comes in and doesn't deliver. If he was a bad skater, coach him out of it. A guy with that much talent should be an easy teach.
3 days from live free hockey.....mega excited.
Exactly. If you stick a scorer on the 4th line with guys who don't have the ability set him up or don't have the ability to get into position to finish what the scorer sets up, how is the scorer going to score? Plus the 4th line generally gets the lowest amount of ice time.
My point is that Besse can't end up there long-term, (but can start there short term). I'm just being paranoid about the 4th line thing from what we've all seen in the past in regards to some players. I think he'll end up on the 3rd line sooner than later, but you never know.
Player development.....I give Eaves little credit when a highly touted guy comes in and delivers. I want to see more John Mitchell/Adam Burish type development out of players like Navin, Meuer, Paape, Cavallini and McGuire. Not all these guys will get to that level, but UW needs more than 1 to make that next step in development. Aside from Mitchell and Burish, who has taken the next step under Eaves? Maybe Woods would have, had he not left. And I am critical of Eaves when a guy like Gorowsky comes in and doesn't deliver. If he was a bad skater, coach him out of it. A guy with that much talent should be an easy teach.
3 days from live free hockey.....mega excited.
G
Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC
Maybe we should chill and see how things play out? Maybe?
Of all the things I worry about with Eaves, wasting talented players isn't one of them.
The problem is too often not having enough offensively talented players at the same time/on the same team. In addition of course to the points that Wojo makes.
I'm sure that Besse will be given every opportunity to move up the depth chart if he shows himself to be worthy.
Maybe we should chill and see how things play out? Maybe?
Of all the things I worry about with Eaves, wasting talented players isn't one of them.
The problem is too often not having enough offensively talented players at the same time/on the same team. In addition of course to the points that Wojo makes.
I'm sure that Besse will be given every opportunity to move up the depth chart if he shows himself to be worthy.
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Chuck Schwartz
New member
Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC
Novel concept. I have a hard time getting bent out of shape about lines they used in practice once before real practices can even take place.
Novel concept. I have a hard time getting bent out of shape about lines they used in practice once before real practices can even take place.
Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC
Actually doing that will keep some of us like me away. I was planning on making this trip but can't take two days off work for it. So I'll be missing this one and waiting for the press conference on BTN to interrupt coverage of te game on TV.
Actually doing that will keep some of us like me away. I was planning on making this trip but can't take two days off work for it. So I'll be missing this one and waiting for the press conference on BTN to interrupt coverage of te game on TV.
Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC
It's not that as many people will be interested in going to this as a Friday-Saturday series, but I think it will take less of a hit than another series moving to Thursday-Friday.
Actually doing that will keep some of us like me away. I was planning on making this trip but can't take two days off work for it. So I'll be missing this one and waiting for the press conference on BTN to interrupt coverage of te game on TV.
It's not that as many people will be interested in going to this as a Friday-Saturday series, but I think it will take less of a hit than another series moving to Thursday-Friday.
Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC
I feel odd quoting myself but here's the summary of the first couple Eaves teams:
Just look at his early classes and their draft position....Earl (6th round), Joudrey (8th), Dowell (5th), Burish (8th), Pavelski (7th)....all guys that have skated in the NHL and some with a great deal of success. Now realize that guys drafted outside the top couple of rounds have extremely long odds of ever playing in the NHL, and that is a pretty good track record. That was just the forwards, now if you want to talk D...undrafted guys like Drewiske, Piskula, and Wozniewski from Eaves first teams skated shifts in the NHL. Or for giggles, we can talk about John Mitchell who washed out of no less then 3 USHL teams in 2 years before ending up in Madison as a mid-term greyshirt that turned into a pretty good college player and has actually managed to earn AHL paychecks.
It's way more then just Burish and Mitchell. There is 8 names off just the first couple Eaves teams that stastically had no business playing in the NHL. I think the success rate of guys drafted outside the first 2 rounds is around 12% of ever playing in the NHL. And its not just those first couple teams....Eaves has gotten guys to the next level at an unparralleled rate. Eaves has also had a better then it should be success rate with guys drafted in the first and second rounds. The proof is in the results of guys making it to the next level on Eaves development track record. He has put the most guys into the NHL during his time at UW then anyone else in college. That, while not regularly being one of the top recruiters. UW recruiting has been solid, but during Eaves tenure....I think it would be awefully hard to argue he has not generally been behind Minnesota, North Dakota, Michigan, BC, and probably even Denver in terms of recruiting class rankings.
My complaints with Eaves is not player development...it's that he has not seemingly managed to leverage an impressive trackrecord of development into a better slot in the recruiting battles (again we've been good....but rarely in the top 5) nor has he balanced out his classes.
I feel odd quoting myself but here's the summary of the first couple Eaves teams:
Just look at his early classes and their draft position....Earl (6th round), Joudrey (8th), Dowell (5th), Burish (8th), Pavelski (7th)....all guys that have skated in the NHL and some with a great deal of success. Now realize that guys drafted outside the top couple of rounds have extremely long odds of ever playing in the NHL, and that is a pretty good track record. That was just the forwards, now if you want to talk D...undrafted guys like Drewiske, Piskula, and Wozniewski from Eaves first teams skated shifts in the NHL. Or for giggles, we can talk about John Mitchell who washed out of no less then 3 USHL teams in 2 years before ending up in Madison as a mid-term greyshirt that turned into a pretty good college player and has actually managed to earn AHL paychecks.
It's way more then just Burish and Mitchell. There is 8 names off just the first couple Eaves teams that stastically had no business playing in the NHL. I think the success rate of guys drafted outside the first 2 rounds is around 12% of ever playing in the NHL. And its not just those first couple teams....Eaves has gotten guys to the next level at an unparralleled rate. Eaves has also had a better then it should be success rate with guys drafted in the first and second rounds. The proof is in the results of guys making it to the next level on Eaves development track record. He has put the most guys into the NHL during his time at UW then anyone else in college. That, while not regularly being one of the top recruiters. UW recruiting has been solid, but during Eaves tenure....I think it would be awefully hard to argue he has not generally been behind Minnesota, North Dakota, Michigan, BC, and probably even Denver in terms of recruiting class rankings.
My complaints with Eaves is not player development...it's that he has not seemingly managed to leverage an impressive trackrecord of development into a better slot in the recruiting battles (again we've been good....but rarely in the top 5) nor has he balanced out his classes.
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Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC
After the craptacular season that was last years "Saturday" season ticket package. I'm not going to complain about this year. The second package last year had a Sunday, Monday, no Minnesota (unless you wanted to pay obscene prices for an outdoor game), and you could pay seperate for a game in a delapitated building (but no attempt at trying to place you into a similar sightline or seat).
After the craptacular season that was last years "Saturday" season ticket package. I'm not going to complain about this year. The second package last year had a Sunday, Monday, no Minnesota (unless you wanted to pay obscene prices for an outdoor game), and you could pay seperate for a game in a delapitated building (but no attempt at trying to place you into a similar sightline or seat).
Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC
Tampa? What?
Tampa? What?
Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC
and Tampa just had a Frozen 4
and Tampa just had a Frozen 4
I was shocked too. Baggot tweeted it.
Badger Booster
Registered User
Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC
Why even have the illusion of a host school in a city with no college program nearby? As a Badger women's hockey fan, it really bothers me they are putting in a bid for a Tampa Frozen Four, but UW has never hosted a NCAA Women's Frozen Four (or even WCHA tournament).
Why even have the illusion of a host school in a city with no college program nearby? As a Badger women's hockey fan, it really bothers me they are putting in a bid for a Tampa Frozen Four, but UW has never hosted a NCAA Women's Frozen Four (or even WCHA tournament).
Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC
Alabama-Huntsville hosting in Tampa made a little sense, at least because they're the closest. If UW "hosts" it in Tampa and not Milwaukee, I'd be less than thrilled.
"Tampa, the site in 2012, asked if school would help it, too." - Baggot, Twitter
Alabama-Huntsville hosting in Tampa made a little sense, at least because they're the closest. If UW "hosts" it in Tampa and not Milwaukee, I'd be less than thrilled.
"Tampa, the site in 2012, asked if school would help it, too." - Baggot, Twitter
Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC
True. But it feels like because fans of this series are so hardcore that they can handle being punished with a Thursday game and still come back for more. Fans for this series should be rewarded for dedication by making it easier, not screwed over because enough people are willing to sacrifice just to see the game. Sucks but unfortunately the economics of it makes sense and it's the new reality.
Let's not forget AA hosting in Anahiem, CA. That one set the precedent for junk like this.
True. But it feels like because fans of this series are so hardcore that they can handle being punished with a Thursday game and still come back for more. Fans for this series should be rewarded for dedication by making it easier, not screwed over because enough people are willing to sacrifice just to see the game. Sucks but unfortunately the economics of it makes sense and it's the new reality.
Let's not forget AA hosting in Anahiem, CA. That one set the precedent for junk like this.
Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC
There are more hockey fans in Florida than in Wisconsin.
There are more hockey fans in Florida than in Wisconsin.
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