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Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

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WiscDC said:
Andy Baggot wrote a follow-up to that article about attendance -

Badgers hockey fans sound off on declining attendance
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All the issues come down to losing, all the complaints stem from the fact that going to the game isn't a good value. They can make attending a game a better value for everyone only by dropping the price and winning more games. Every other option trades one fans enjoyment for another fans.
 
Almington said:
All the issues come down to losing, all the complaints stem from the fact that going to the game isn't a good value. They can make attending a game a better value for everyone only by dropping the price and winning more games. Every other option trades one fans enjoyment for another fans.
Click to expand...

I agree that price is the main driving force to the attendance decline. I'm a student so I don't need to pay to park, but I will in the future and $15 to park is just ridiculous. Why not give season ticket holders a large discount on parking? Also, I think that if they drop ticket prices, especially season ticket prices (student and non-student), the other minor complaints that people have will become obcelete because the price of admission is more affordable. I would love to become a regular season ticket holder after I graduate, but I think current prices are just too much, even for the die-hard fan I consider myself to be.
 
Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

Almington said:
All the issues come down to losing, all the complaints stem from the fact that going to the game isn't a good value. They can make attending a game a better value for everyone only by dropping the price and winning more games. Every other option trades one fans enjoyment for another fans.
Click to expand...

Winning is always the biggest factor in attendance changes in spectator sports. (Of course, fans of sports teams doing will for a long time act like their fan base is the best, forgetting times when their attendance was garbage, as they're subject to those fluctuations too.) There are other factors, too, that push attendance changes one way or another. From what I understand, it was all that Bill Wirtz did in addition to the losing that caused low attendance in Chicago. You can see when Wirtz died just by looking at this graph.

The article mentions 2006-07 had the highest average attendance (not including the Camp Randall Classic in 2010), as more people buy tickets in the wake of massive success. In my opinion, a little more could be done keeping fans informed on what's going on with the team. I seemed like most casual fans didn't have a clue how fast the Badgers were climbing the standings after the horrible start last year.

Lastly, Mark Johnson's name did not make nearly enough appearances in the comments! :D
 
Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

For reference, I also talked about attendance issues during the season. Needless to say, the team played much, MUCH better than I expected down the stretch. Regardless, the attendance comments are still noteworthy, IMO. LINK
 
Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

Bonin21 said:
If I'm understanding the site, full season tickets are only about $400-$500 each? Makes the attendance woes sting a little worse, in my opinion.
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Actually $200 each for 10 games so two tickets is $400. $4 off of the face value of $24. Plus there is a $25 fee. But they raised the prices of the programs and didn't lower the outrageous parking cost of $15 per game. I normally park in the city ramp for $5.
 
WiscTJK said:
Actually $200 each for 10 games so two tickets is $400. $4 off of the face value of $24. Plus there is a $25 fee. But they raised the prices of the programs and didn't lower the outrageous parking cost of $15 per game. I normally park in the city ramp for $5.
Click to expand...
I was thinking in terms of buying both packages plus the donations and fees. It seems like parking is a hot issue. At the U, there are many free or cheaper options for those willing to walk a bit. Is that not the case there? You pointed out one example for $5 which seems reasonable.
 
Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

Chuck Schwartz said:
For reference, I also talked about attendance issues during the season. Needless to say, the team played much, MUCH better than I expected down the stretch. Regardless, the attendance comments are still noteworthy, IMO. LINK
Click to expand...

Again, with a team that consistently wins, all the other issues will go away because people will be far more willing to pay to see wins and the games become a much better value. The only other thing that is an improvement for everyone is dropping the cost(s) of actually attending the games.

Every other option has a trade off: for the group who wants alcohol, you have another group who doesn't want to deal with drunken idiots. Crack down on the students for swearing and others will lament the decline in the atmosphere. Fewer early departures may help prevent some of the down seasons from being so low, but that elite talent also tends to be the most offensively gifted resulting in more exciting games (for the casual fans at least).

The AD can do some things related to the costs of attending the games, but Eaves needs to string together 4 or 5 seasons of 20+ wins and NCAA appearances (or just win the NCAA title next season and not fall off the cliff in 2014-15) before the results will convince people to start attending the games again.
 
Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

Bonin21 said:
I was thinking in terms of buying both packages plus the donations and fees. It seems like parking is a hot issue. At the U, there are many free or cheaper options for those willing to walk a bit. Is that not the case there? You pointed out one example for $5 which seems reasonable.
Click to expand...

I'm a student, so I haven't looked into this extensively. There are options for those willing to walk, but it's not that many. Here's a quick link to the Kohl Center on Google maps for reference.

If you look south and east of the arena, there are lots that I assume are paid lots. Moving a block or two up Lake St., there are a couple parking garages that have the event parking setup. I'm not sure if the one between University and State on Lake (by the post office) becomes event parking or if it's business as usual on game days. There's a small lot that I passed every time a few blocks west of the Kohl Center on Dayton Street, with the $15 parking in effect.

As far as other places to park that aren't $15, there's nothing big that I can think of, but there are some small options. I'm not sure what would happen if everyone driving to the game went for these options, and it's probably necessary for plenty of people to use the paid parking options. That being said, a few more people could probably use the cheaper options. There's parking on a lot of the nearby streets, and there's a lot by Union South with empty spaces on game night. Memorial Union would be another option. There are actually lots of little lots on campus that become parking for football games, as there are no big lots right next to Camp Randall Stadium. Some of those wouldn't be available, but some are just open lots. One that I walked through on my way to the Kohl Center the last two years was the one by the dairy store. That's about a 15-20 minute walk, but there are nearer spots. Really, any parking areas on campus that you could park at regardless of what's going on at the Kohl Center would fit this mold. I'm not sure what it's like south of the arena.
 
Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

With regards to consistent winning, I want to pose this thought/question to everyone here.

We all know about the unbalanced recruiting classes and how that affects the team's performance in 4-year cycles. Based on what I've read over the past year or so, it seems that Wisconsin has gotten kids who are still in the 16-18 age range who are considered to be among the very best of the best of their age group. (I understand that for a high-end D-I NCAA program, all the players could be considered "best of the best," but I mean relative to other D-I prospects.) Does this next "wave" of underclassmen, who have already committed, look like it can compete with the rest of the league when they're still a "young team?" How does this compare to how fans felt about the last "wave" before they came in? I just want to get an idea of what that was like, and how it compares to now, from those with more knowledge and experience watching this team over the years.
 
Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

Almington said:
Every other option has a trade off: for the group who wants alcohol, you have another group who doesn't want to deal with drunken idiots. Crack down on the students for swearing and others will lament the decline in the atmosphere. Fewer early departures may help prevent some of the down seasons from being so low, but that elite talent also tends to be the most offensively gifted resulting in more exciting games (for the casual fans at least).
Click to expand...
Seven years ago, they had atmosphere. They didn't need alcohol and they didn't tighten the reins on the students. They had the same system then as now, the same lack of regular success as now.

I can only think of a select few things that have changed since then, but it's mostly my usual broken record list of petulant whining over why "people like me" aren't welcome in the Kohl Center. But the funny thing is, when any one of us thinks of the reasons that people are giving for leaving the Kohl Center in droves... how many of them are things that weren't there back when we had a better home average than several NHL teams?
 
Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

ExileOnDaytonStreet said:
Seven years ago, they had atmosphere. They didn't need alcohol and they didn't tighten the reins on the students. They had the same system then as now, the same lack of regular success as now.

I can only think of a select few things that have changed since then, but it's mostly my usual broken record list of petulant whining over why "people like me" aren't welcome in the Kohl Center. But the funny thing is, when any one of us thinks of the reasons that people are giving for leaving the Kohl Center in droves... how many of them are things that weren't there back when we had a better home average than several NHL teams?
Click to expand...

To me, the difference is hope and expectation. When Eaves had just started as HC, the team still had expectations of getting better and hope that they would return to greatness, it didn't hurt that they were winning roughtly every other game on the way to a 20+ win season, First round home ice, and a (relatively safe) NCAA bid in 2003-04 and 2004-05. Between the lack of consistent winning (sub 0.500 seasons, missed first round home ice), the mind-boggling inability to not lose OT games, and the generalized decline of the game day atmosphere (for reasons that have been hashed over many times and are likely to not change anytime soon) the fan base has become increasingly disaffected and demoralized.
 
Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

Parking is an excuse to mask what the real reason is which is results/on ice performance. People generally don't want to admit they are "fair weather" or "bandwagon" fans. The only reason I am a Badger season ticketholder is because of the aweful state the Blackhawks franchise had declined into. My cousins were splitting half a season ticket package and I would pick up 6 or 7 games a year for many years. When old man Wirtz refused to pay what it took to retain player after player and brought in garbage after garbage to replace what they let go, the on ice product was bad and it was time to find a different outlet for my hockey itch. I was not going to spend time, money, and energy for the priveledge of going to watch bad hockey in Chicago. I still followed the team and watched on tv....but with much less passion and interest.

If you want "cheap" parking, there are plenty of stalls in the big deck by state street for $5 flat on game day which is 3 blocks from the Kohl. Would I prefer the spots under the Fluno center were still $5 instead of $15 to cut down the walk a block...sure. Is that a real legitimate reason to not go to a Badger game...not even remotely. If I want free parking with in 2-3 blocks of the Kohl...it is certainly available and I use it often. Parking is an excuse....nothing more and nothing less.
 
Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

Per Baggot: Walk-on Spencer Bell has left team to focus on academics.
 
Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

All this talk about season tickets...

We're letting our Friday seats (4) go this year.

Reasons? It's not solely or even mostly the on-ice product/success. At least not directly for me as a fan.


First and foremost, we have 4 seats and my eldest is about to enter high school. His days of wanting to spend Friday night with the family at a Badger game were mostly done 2 years ago and it's only going to get more pronounced - and I don't blame him at all.

So we're left with 4 seats and only 3 people using them. Have eaten several single tix over the past few years and my second son likes to go, but not 10 times a season.


Secondly, it's expensive. $950 for the 4 tix and parking. We need close parking btw for reasons I'm not going to get into here.

We've been to so many games over the years that I've kinda been there, done that and the cost is not outweighed anymore by the benefit that I get sitting there watching in the arena.

Why is the benefit of being there no longer worth the cost? Let's count the ways...

1 - This was something we did with the kids and they're moving on in life - which is great.

2 - There's no one there anymore and the atmosphere (due to the vast emptiness) is more depressing than energizing. This is where the on-ice product is indirectly involved for me. The people aren't coming due to the on-ice product (or multiple reasons like me) which is ruining the games for me and contributing to me not needing to be there anymore.

3 - Neutering the band and students for more crap on the video screens. College events should be college events. I loathe the video screens at this point and quite honestly rarely pay attention to them, but it's hard to ignore them. Sometimes you just want to be able to have a conversation with the people around you and not be "entertained" every second.

4 - You should see my cave. Big screen, surround sound, bar, recliners, pool table, pole, memorabilia. There's more atmosphere in my basement than the KC these days.

5 - The monetary cost. We're not rich and that $950 can buy me a week on the lake, something for the house, etc. Things that I'll get far more enjoyment from.

6 - I'm jaded. I saw Heatley and Reinprecht. I saw the great 2006 team. It's been so many years and some great players and moments. At this point, I believe that the golden era for me as a fan has passed. That's not to say that there aren't many more great players and seasons to come. I'm just moving on. There are so many other things in life that are pulling on me that I just don't need to dedicate so much of my time to this anymore - retracing the same footsteps, walking the same paths.

7 - Nobody else wants these. It's easy to find buyers for my football tickets. Can't hardly ever find buyers for 4 hockey tickets when we can't use them so our unused tickets become a $100 waste of money each time.

8 - Other hockey. My son will be playing HS hockey for the next 4 years at a strong local program. I will be at those games, which I never really went to in the past (high school games, that is). His youth games were almost always during the day on weekends. The HS games will often be at night. In addition, I'm a bigger Hawks fan than I am Badger Hockey (not by a ton, but bigger) and I get Center Ice. Game days are mapped out all season and it's down to the cave. It gets to be a lot of hockey and making the effort to go to the KC in addition to those other options becomes too much.


Anyway, I just wanted to push back a little on the notion that it's all about the on-ice product. Even if we were defending Natty Champs right now, I'd still be dropping these tickets due to all of the reasons above.

We are keeping our pair of Saturday tix, so I'm not dropping it altogether. They're better seats, cost less and it's much easier to find buyers for them - no reason not to keep them at this point. We'll probably only go to 3-5 of the Saturday games and sell the rest.

When/if we want to take the whole fam, it's easy to just grab tix for individual games.



There you have it.
 
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Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

I think I've mentioned here why I'm not making my "special effort to go to Madison for a game or two" trips this season. It'd be a broken record for me to get into it, but your reasons #2 and #3 are the primary culprits, perhaps even moreso than having Baby EoDS in the house.
 
Re: Wisconsin Hockey Vol. XXVI: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Tolerate The BTHC

Gurtholfin said:
6 - I'm jaded. I saw Heatley and Reinprecht. I saw the great 2006 team. It's been so many years and some great players and moments. At this point, I believe that the golden era for me as a fan has passed. That's not to say that there aren't many more great players and seasons to come. I'm just moving on. There are so many other things in life that are pulling on me that I just don't need to dedicate so much of my time to this anymore - retracing the same footsteps, walking the same paths.
Click to expand...

After 36 years of both nights, we dropped our Friday tickets last year. I kinda think your reason #6 speaks for me as well. My first year of season tickets was the 1976-77 team that still stands as the best Badger team ever. So for me, it's all been downhill. :) But seriously, there have been great seasons and teams and players, and there will be more of all of those, but I'm just running out of energy. And yeah, living on my retirement hasn't exactly made tickets more affordable either. Part of me felt like death for dropping those Friday seats, but you know, I bet we ate half of those tickets anyways, so it's not that great a loss. It's also been fun to listen to more games on the radio. I think Brian Posick is a great broadcaster, and we're lucky to have him. Now my goal is to hang on to, and enjoy, the Saturday tickets for a couple more years. That nice round number of 40 seasons would be a satisfying place to wrap it up.
 
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