Wisconsin Hockey 21-22: Your Guess Is As Good As Mine

[Timothy A]

A telling sign of the internal chemistry will be if any of the current players go into the portal.

 

[WiscTJK]

My note to Jason King stated the neutering of Eaves with his assistants that last year did nothing except reduce the buyout and slowed the rebuild. Unfortunately, by all measurements Granato has done worse. Worse record, more losing seasons, less NCAA tourneys, worse pairwise, less butts in the seats, shrinking paid attendance that is coming (this year is going to lose a bunch of season ticket holders), etc. I just can't believe they don't see the same thing happening 6 years later... The program is running in the red and will continue to do that until they start winning year in and year out. As one of the few programs in the nation and one of three programs at UW that can contribute positive revenue (versus program expenses) to the athletic department (besides BB and football), it is imperative that we have a winning program. It's a double whammy when they run in the red. But alas as Gary Shuchuk once said, I am just an idiot fan....

 

[WiscTJK]

Does anyone get this tweet? https://twitter.com/BadgerMHockey/status/1503881479734140932

 

[GoBucky18]

That tweet makes no sense...or are they trying to be metaphorical saying they are lost but will find themselves...I can't give the program that much credit for thought depth, though.

Leave it to their prgm to talk about a Disney+ series instead of focusing on hockey. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot / FUBAR / choose your acronym, this is rediculous.

 

[GoBucky18]

In my mind, first step is to reassign hockey to AD level and/or fire King. We havent won an NCAA tourney game in 14years. And each time got blown out since to NODAK, UMass_Lowell, and Bemidji. Brutal.

McIntosh should take a deep look at taking on the hockey prgm, and effing figure it out.

 

[solovsfett]

In my mind, first step is to reassign hockey to AD level and/or fire King. We havent won an NCAA tourney game in 14years. And each time got blown out since to NODAK, UMass_Lowell, and Bemidji. Brutal.

McIntosh should take a deep look at taking on the hockey prgm, and effing figure it out.

Agreed. The associate AD should have never been in charge of men’s OR women’s hockey.

Ultimately, this is on McIntosh though. He’s perpetuating the downfall of UW hockey.

we all thought Barry made the right choice (finally!!!) but now that we see it’s a mistake it should be rectified quick. But yeah, what do us (ticket buying, concessions buying, blue line, oops that’s gone) fans know, we’re idiots right?

 

[sunprairie]

Zoom in to the guy on the top left in the poster. He’s wearing a Wisconsin Hockey shirt. It’s just a fun tweet about the program showing up somewhere unexpected. I think some of the folks here need to step away from their anger for a little bit. Taking things a bit too serious, fellows. It’s still college hockey and they are allowed to have fun.

Does anyone get this tweet? https://twitter.com/BadgerMHockey/status/1503881479734140932

 

[WiscTJK]

Zoom in to the guy on the top left in the poster. He’s wearing a Wisconsin Hockey shirt. It’s just a fun tweet about the program showing up somewhere unexpected. I think some of the folks here need to step away from their anger for a little bit. Taking things a bit too serious, fellows. It’s still college hockey and they are allowed to have fun.

At least I understand it now. But let's keep in mind this is the same Twitter feed that quit posting the score at Minnesota after 0-4. Never posted again in the 0-8 loss.

I got an email today from Wisconsin Athletics thanking women's hockey fans for the year. Where is that from the men's side? Never got one...... just not a great look.

 

[sunprairie]

Again, you’re letting your anger get the best of you and shaping how you’re perceiving things. I received an email with almost the exact same thank you language as the women’s email (I’m a season ticket holder for both) from the men’s team on Feb. 17 - four days after the last home game. Had a video message thanking fans from Granato and a number of the seniors. Check your in box.

At least I understand it now. But let's keep in mind this is the same Twitter feed that quit posting the score at Minnesota after 0-4. Never posted again in the 0-8 loss.

I got an email today from Wisconsin Athletics thanking women's hockey fans for the year. Where is that from the men's side? Never got one...... just not a great look.

 

[GoBucky18]

Anger is warranted sometimes. If Paul Christ ripped off four 5-7 seasons, one 7-5 season, and one 8-4 season, would you not have some very pointed questions amd concerns for the program?

Let's be honest though...the Wisconsin Men's Hockey twitter feed is more interested in a random Disney+ shoutout to WI than Wisconsin Hockey.

It's the bargain with the devil...the business of Wisconsin comes before the success of Wisconsin hockey.

 

[WiscTJK]

Again, you’re letting your anger get the best of you and shaping how you’re perceiving things. I received an email with almost the exact same thank you language as the women’s email (I’m a season ticket holder for both) from the men’s team on Feb. 17 - four days after the last home game. Had a video message thanking fans from Granato and a number of the seniors. Check your in box.

I missed it and deleted it by accident, or didn’t get it.

I am angry. It was an awful season and other than last year, this staff has failed miserably (and I could argue that even then, with all that talent, in the end, they underperformed). And since no changes are being made I’m left with giving up my Friday season tickets as the only recourse remaining.

I gave up Saturday seats during the last few years of Eaves and only have one night anymore. I’m not giving the AD further money until we have a winning team year in and year out.

I’ve had student or regular season tickets since 1993. 1998 thru about 2013 I had both nights.

When the die hard fans like myself and several here give up on the program, the death spiral may not be able to be reversed for a long, long time.

 

[GoBucky18]

And I apologize for the typos....I meant *Chryst

 

[Almington]

a once proud program is a joke now. Getting their doors blown off by teams who’ve navigated the “new landscape” just fine.

cannot win WITH talent: Turcotte, Caufield, Miller, Holloway in 19-20 season and they certainly can’t win without talent as 4 losing seasons in 6 years proves.

Let me ask a question: What was the last season that UW's results EXCEEDED the talent level on the team? For me that was back in Eaves 2nd or 3rd season? Where most of those players were recruited by the previous staff.

To me, that is an indictment of the the culture of UW hockey program over the past 20 years. Sauer was replaced because "the game had past him by" and that was likely true. But instead of building a culture of excellence and sacrifice in the pursue of team goal Eaves developed a with a culture of talent over team claiming that it was the new era. When Eaves failed, it was blamed on him not recruiting enough talent (but UW was consistently losing to less talented teams, at least on paper) and being far to inflexible and conservative. Granato and Co doubled down on the "talent above all else" idea and sold the idea that it would work if you "opened up the system". Clearly this has not worked given the overall lack of success.

To me, it appears that the current staff is running the program like a professional operations where personnel decisions are short term and players are interchangeable whenever they want. It could be argued that is how things are moving with the transfer portal, but I suspect that teams with a strong culture will continue to lose fewer players than teams with weaker cultures AND thus continue to have more success.

Given the fact that over the last 20 years, recruiting at UW has focused mostly on how being at UW can help players prepare for the next level and what you have is a collection of players who come in with a mercenary mindset and don't remember their time at UW fondly because it wasn't a formative experience but just a stepping stone to bigger things and the on-ice success was limited. People wonder why the team alumni don't speak up the way that players from the 80s and 90s did? To them UW isn't all that different than any minor league or junior team that they played on. You think any of those players really care about what happens at their USHL or BCHL teams 5-10 years after they leave? Nope.

What UW has lacked over the past 20 seasons is a coaching staff that can build a team and not just recruit talent. They may all be fine in-game coaches and salesmen when recruiting, but they have struggled to develop players and seem to recruit talent above intangibles and roles. Until those things change, success will always be fleeting and elusive for this staff.

 

[sunprairie]

So, here’s the thing. I think that is actually what the athletic department wants. and if that’s the case, maybe it’s time we just either lean in or leave - either fine choices. I mean, this week that is what was pushed by the football team’s instagram stories - that Wisconsin is “the pro pipeline.” (They even highlighted Hockey’s success in that approach with a card with Cole’s picture and the hundreds of NHL draft picks the program has recruited.)

And UW isn’t alone in that.

So, perhaps that is how the teams are being judged and as fans we need to shift our approach. Look, college sports of the 1990s isn’t coming back. So much has changed. I miss the WCHA, too, and we can’t dismiss what that did to all the teams involved culture and legacy wise. Now, NIL means the sport is transactional now and that isn’t going to change. I think it’s time to stop thinking that Badger hockey will ever be what it was then and either be angry and leave (which is a totally fine response) or lean in and appreciate what it can be now. Because simply being angry that the team isn’t the program of the early 1990s is futile and that kind of anger isn’t good for anyone.

Let me ask a question: What was the last season that UW's results EXCEEDED the talent level on the team? For me that was back in Eaves 2nd or 3rd season? Where most of those players were recruited by the previous staff.

To me, that is an indictment of the the culture of UW hockey program over the past 20 years. Sauer was replaced because "the game had past him by" and that was likely true. But instead of building a culture of excellence and sacrifice in the pursue of team goal Eaves developed a with a culture of talent over team claiming that it was the new era. When Eaves failed, it was blamed on him not recruiting enough talent (but UW was consistently losing to less talented teams, at least on paper) and being far to inflexible and conservative. Granato and Co doubled down on the "talent above all else" idea and sold the idea that it would work if you "opened up the system". Clearly this has not worked given the overall lack of success.

To me, it appears that the current staff is running the program like a professional operations where personnel decisions are short term and players are interchangeable whenever they want. It could be argued that is how things are moving with the transfer portal, but I suspect that teams with a strong culture will continue to lose fewer players than teams with weaker cultures AND thus continue to have more success.

Given the fact that over the last 20 years, recruiting at UW has focused mostly on how being at UW can help players prepare for the next level and what you have is a collection of players who come in with a mercenary mindset and don't remember their time at UW fondly because it wasn't a formative experience but just a stepping stone to bigger things and the on-ice success was limited. People wonder why the team alumni don't speak up the way that players from the 80s and 90s did? To them UW isn't all that different than any minor league or junior team that they played on. You think any of those players really care about what happens at their USHL or BCHL teams 5-10 years after they leave? Nope.

What UW has lacked over the past 20 seasons is a coaching staff that can build a team and not just recruit talent. They may all be fine in-game coaches and salesmen when recruiting, but they have struggled to develop players and seem to recruit talent above intangibles and roles. Until those things change, success will always be fleeting and elusive for this staff.

 

[GoBucky18]

NIL isnt the problem. That actually has helped college hockey and got rid of kids committing when they were 14yrs old, I consider that a positive.

Nothing wrong with promoting CC either. The guy was a legit phenom.

The difference is the football team can point to their draft picks AND on field success. That is a very important distinction and worth noting. Fans dont care about NHL draft picks, we care about a winning program. And the univ acting like it wants one thru ath dept committment, player development, committment, and great coaching.

Winning puts fans in the seats, NHL draftees do not. Plain and simple.

 

[D2D]

I gave up Saturday seats during the last few years of Eaves and only have one night anymore.

I've had student or regular season tickets since 1993. 1998 thru about 2013 I had both nights.

I in no way want to rub it in, but I would urge you to hang in there. It may take a while, but things do change. I've been a Gopher women's program season ticket holder (and donor) since 2015, and the men's since 1972 (49 years!), and I have no plans to give either up. This year our women's team came up short of where we expect them to be, but the men's team is still going strong. That order could easily reverse itself next season, but I'll be cheering both teams on to victory no matter what.

Good luck to both of your hockey programs, except when you'll be playing my Gophers!

 

[D2D]

Yes. Do it. Do it now. It sure is heck can't get any worse.

Yes, you could be Michigan State.

 

[Timothy A]

Yes, you could be Michigan State.

We already are.

 

[Almington]

So, here’s the thing. I think that is actually what the athletic department wants. and if that’s the case, maybe it’s time we just either lean in or leave - either fine choices. I mean, this week that is what was pushed by the football team’s instagram stories - that Wisconsin is “the pro pipeline.” (They even highlighted Hockey’s success in that approach with a card with Cole’s picture and the hundreds of NHL draft picks the program has recruited.)

And UW isn’t alone in that.

So, perhaps that is how the teams are being judged and as fans we need to shift our approach. Look, college sports of the 1990s isn’t coming back. So much has changed. I miss the WCHA, too, and we can’t dismiss what that did to all the teams involved culture and legacy wise. Now, NIL means the sport is transactional now and that isn’t going to change. I think it’s time to stop thinking that Badger hockey will ever be what it was then and either be angry and leave (which is a totally fine response) or lean in and appreciate what it can be now. Because simply being angry that the team isn’t the program of the early 1990s is futile and that kind of anger isn’t good for anyone.

The AD is pointing out all the draft picks because they don't have any recent on-ice success to highlight. You think that is this team had won the NC last season they wouldn't have lead with that? When pro teams have terrible seasons, they always start touting the charity work that the players do in the community. The marketing wing of the athletic department is just putting the best spin they can on the program: "we may have sucked on the ice, but look at all out NHL draft picks". They just don't say the part befot the but out loud, but it is implied. Their are two ways, and only two ways to judge a colligate athletic program: Academic Achievement and Competition Achievement. Everything else is secondary, and being a waypoint to the pro ranks isn't even secondary.

When I talk about culture, I'm not talking about the FAN culture (which is a whole different novel), but the teams locker room culture. That has nothing to do with what conference the team is in or the overall alignment of college hockey. Successful teams with strong team first cultures survived and even thrived during the upheavals in the college hockey landscape over the past decade plus. Talent can overcome a lack of unity, but never with consistency. While you can see the flashes of greatness that the UW teams have been capable of over the past seasons, the painful inconsistency is the number one reason that success has been so elusive over the Granato era.

If double digits wins and NHL draft picks is how you want to measure a successful program, that is your choice. I do not and that is why I'm no longer anywhere near as emotionally (or financially or time) invested in this program as I have been in the past. I would rather step on LEGO bricks than watch this team, so that is what I do.

 

[sunprairie]

I’m pretty sure we are actually saying the same thing here. (Although, I will point out that it is the football program that is touting the athletic department as The Pathway to the Pros, featuring that aspect from all sports that have such pathways - and I think we can all agree that football is the program that is closest to the mouthpiece of representing what the whole AD’s perspective is).

My response was not disagreeing with you - it was pointing out that the bulk of the comments on this board (and why I don’t come here often anymore) are moaning about how the program is not the program of the “glory years.” That gets tiring.

No one is happy with the results of this season - the players, coaches or us. But, when I see the video that UW put out after the season, I see a coach recognizing that and presenting a plan to try to fix it. As a fan, that’s what I want to see. And I am excited for it. That’s my choice.

Your choice to not watch is a fine one, too, as I noted.

But sitting and complaining that a 2022 college hockey team is not ever going to be the kind of team the Badgers were in the college hockey environment of the 1990s or earlier is doing no good. It’s not going to happen. And it gets old. I guess just like this program has moved to a place where many here don’t see themselves as part of it, I don’t have it in me to always be angry - that’s not what I turn to sports for. So I will just step back from spaces like this and look forward to next season. If you are there, I’ll cheer along with you. If not, we’ll miss you, but we’ll cheer a little louder until we see you again. On Wisconsin.

The AD is pointing out all the draft picks because they don't have any recent on-ice success to highlight. You think that is this team had won the NC last season they wouldn't have lead with that? When pro teams have terrible seasons, they always start touting the charity work that the players do in the community. The marketing wing of the athletic department is just putting the best spin they can on the program: "we may have sucked on the ice, but look at all out NHL draft picks". They just don't say the part befot the but out loud, but it is implied. Their are two ways, and only two ways to judge a colligate athletic program: Academic Achievement and Competition Achievement. Everything else is secondary, and being a waypoint to the pro ranks isn't even secondary.

When I talk about culture, I'm not talking about the FAN culture (which is a whole different novel), but the teams locker room culture. That has nothing to do with what conference the team is in or the overall alignment of college hockey. Successful teams with strong team first cultures survived and even thrived during the upheavals in the college hockey landscape over the past decade plus. Talent can overcome a lack of unity, but never with consistency. While you can see the flashes of greatness that the UW teams have been capable of over the past seasons, the painful inconsistency is the number one reason that success has been so elusive over the Granato era.

If double digits wins and NHL draft picks is how you want to measure a successful program, that is your choice. I do not and that is why I'm no longer anywhere near as emotionally (or financially or time) invested in this program as I have been in the past. I would rather step on LEGO bricks than watch this team, so that is what I do.