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Wisconsin Hockey 2019-20 Part II: Civil War

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Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2019-20 Part II: Civil War

Great article by Todd. Twitter comments are interesting.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">In each of the first three seasons under coach Tony Granato, the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Badgers?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Badgers</a> were one game over .500 at the break. They're 7-8-1 with only games at Michigan State left in 2019 — not quite what many expected from this season. More in today's notes:<a href="https://t.co/MOhTLGftig">https://t.co/MOhTLGftig</a></p>— Todd Milewski (@ToddMilewski) <a href="https://twitter.com/ToddMilewski/status/1201622669252276230?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 2, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2019-20 Part II: Civil War

Coaching Records and Winning %:

Bob Johnson 1966–82 367-175-23 .670
Jeff Sauer 1982–02 489-306-46 .609
Mike Eaves 2002–16 267-225-66 .538
Tony Granato 2016– 55-60-11 .478
 
Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2019-20 Part II: Civil War

I have an idea. You won’t like it but...sit Caufield, Turcotte and Miller for Friday night’s game. Send a message that it doesn’t matter where you’re drafted you play 200 feet today or you ride the pines.
 
Bonin21 said:
Two programs, both alike in history
In fair North, where we lay our scene

What we are seeing here are two traditional hockey programs dealt an excruciating blow by the formation of a stupid hockey conference no one really wanted or likes more than the old one, combined with holding onto coaches way too long because of long ago national championships.

Granato and Motzko were left with empty cupboards, and it's evident that given the circumstances they'll probably both get at least five years before being fired becomes a possibility. If Motzko fails to make the tournament the first four years, I believe the discussion should be happening though he'd likely get at least another year. This is year 4 for Granato.
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*Couldn't agree more.
 
Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2019-20 Part II: Civil War

Off topic a bit... I watched a documentary on Michael Lekrone. They had an approx 15 minute segment on how important the band was at hockey games. They used to. only allow so many band members, now we have a new band director, more than enough room, and nobody shows up. It just added to the morgue like atmosphere, I guess.
 
Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2019-20 Part II: Civil War

solovsfett said:
I have an idea. You won’t like it but...sit Caufield, Turcotte and Miller for Friday night’s game. Send a message that it doesn’t matter where you’re drafted you play 200 feet today or you ride the pines.
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Anyone not playing the way they should be should indeed ride the pine. I don't care if they only dress 10 F and 4 D then.
 
Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2019-20 Part II: Civil War

MadCityRich said:
Off topic a bit... I watched a documentary on Michael Lekrone. They had an approx 15 minute segment on how important the band was at hockey games. They used to. only allow so many band members, now we have a new band director, more than enough room, and nobody shows up. It just added to the morgue like atmosphere, I guess.
Click to expand...

I actually hoped the attention to hockey would improve with the change, but boy was I wrong! Emailing and twittering them gets absolutely no response. It still makes me mad, but I am forcing myself not to get crabby about it and just accept it. But I am crabby now.
 
Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2019-20 Part II: Civil War

MadCityRich said:
Off topic a bit... I watched a documentary on Michael Lekrone. They had an approx 15 minute segment on how important the band was at hockey games. They used to. only allow so many band members, now we have a new band director, more than enough room, and nobody shows up. It just added to the morgue like atmosphere, I guess.
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And when you say "nobody," it really is nobody. I know no one expects the new director to be Leckrone, who seemed to impossibly be literally everywhere all the time. But I've only seen the new director at two hockey games this year. If he's not making it a priority, why would the band members? I also assume that Leckrone's exit is a reason for there not even being an alumni band organized for this weekend's games. (I know that the alumni band got shafted for their annual football game once Leckrone was gone. They weren't even allowed to march out on the field during pregame this year to meet the current band members. Wonder if Barry went ahead and cancelled any kind of free alumni band tickets for hockey games that the regular band wasn't going to be at.) The Kohl Center crew choosing to play a Christmas Vacation clip over On Wisconsin after Cole's goal Sunday late in the game was just ridiculous. Down 2-0, the Kohl Center is dead quiet, Cole lights the lamp with 5 to go and it was a perfect time to fire up the crowd, which On Wisconsin and a good rolling "Sieve!" cheer will do.

But no, we chase the absurd movie theme, the crowd gets confused, a smattering of folks try to yell Sieve, and any crowd momentum is lost. I know the team is not living up to expectations, which hurts attendance. But to that documentary's points about both football and hockey, the band is an important part of creating a differentiated - and exciting - environment that fans want to attend regardless of play on ice, and to the point with hockey, have actually previously played a key role in a resurgence of the hockey program during Badger Bob's tenure.
 
Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2019-20 Part II: Civil War

Nailed it, sunprairie.

Some focus group at some point told them to be more memeable and the Badger band doesn’t play into that.
 
Timothy A said:
Anyone not playing the way they should be should indeed ride the pine. I don't care if they only dress 10 F and 4 D then.
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Yup. Bring in the Donovan kid to play defense and sit one of the draft picks who keeps loafing, making stupid passes, and not picking up the open guy in the slot.

Sit Linus. I've seen him multiple times fail to pick up guys on the backcheck that led to the other team scoring.

The "talent" on this team isn't doing jack in the win column. So if the precious draft picks keep making stupid plays then bring in someone else. Just shuffling the same top three lines isn't doing anything.
 
Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2019-20 Part II: Civil War

Wisko McBadgerton said:
Since this came up on twitter, something about turnovers and strategy.

It has been shown for a long time that zone entries (entering with possession) highly correlates with more quality scoring chances and therefore more goals. So an offensive objective would obviously be to carry the puck into the zone much more often then you chip or dump and chase. A problem that has arisen though is that high zone entries also correlates very strongly with a high turnover rate. This makes sense of course, because players are reluctant to dump the puck when under pressure and they then give it up more often. Giving turnovers correlates even more strongly with high scoring chances and goals against, though. (Naturally, as turnovers often lead to odd rushes, or at the least, a scrambling, less organised back check.)

When you have a team like the Badgers, who began struggling with high turnover rates, it makes perfect sense then to chip and chase more in an attempt to reduce turnovers and goals against. They have (I think sensibly) moved on a bit from striving for high zone entries and gone more to working more of a controlled dump and chase. (Preferably you put the puck in a spot where you at least create a 50/50 battle for it. ) When they do so consistently, they don't turn the puck over a lot, but, they also aren't particularly adept at, or probably built for, playing that style and they aren't creating a lot of scoring chances. The majority of the top nine aren't really go into the corners against 6'5" D and dig out pucks kind of guys. They are mostly more carry the puck in and get quick scoring chance type of guys.

So what to do? I don't know, it's above my pay grade. Get better at zone entries without turnovers or get better at retrieving pucks, I guess. How they do that quickly I'm not too sure.
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Isn't that a sign that maybe despite the physical talent, these guys maybe just don't have the instinct/'hockey IQ' to be really successful? The decision making doesn't seem to be there. The 'young team' excuse might actually be valid here, as one might expect a bit of a learning curve as to what you can get away with/how close to cut it/how long to carry puck vs dumping. The question is, are we seeing any improvement in this area. I'm not sure we are. As to what to do, if this is the case, I think you have to allow them to try to enter with the puck, and hope they learn/make better decisions.
 
Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2019-20 Part II: Civil War

LordofBrewtown said:
Isn't that a sign that maybe despite the physical talent, these guys maybe just don't have the instinct/'hockey IQ' to be really successful? The decision making doesn't seem to be there. The 'young team' excuse might actually be valid here, as one might expect a bit of a learning curve as to what you can get away with/how close to cut it/how long to carry puck vs dumping. The question is, are we seeing any improvement in this area. I'm not sure we are. As to what to do, if this is the case, I think you have to allow them to try to enter with the puck, and hope they learn/make better decisions.
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Clearly the guys with the most talent and highest hockey IQ on this team have the least experience. Experience is probably the biggest factor in predicting NCAA hockey success. Upperclassmen win, underclassmen contribute. Yes there are frosh superstars, like Kyle Connor, Brock Boesser, Jack Eichel, et. al., but who are those guys paired with? Compher and Motte;(both in NHL) Caggiula and Schmaltz; (both in NHL) Rodriguez and O'Regan;(both in NHL)... Our guys don't have the luxury of playing on lines with seniors like Geoffrion and Davies, or Burish and MacMurchy, or even Zengerle and Mike Mersch right now. So I think they are climbing a very steep learning curve with a lot of extra weight on their shoulders. But it's always going to be that way for them. As long as they play hockey they will be under a lot of pressure to produce because they have talent. Might as well get used to it. The other guys we do have that are playing up top.. well, they're probably largely out of position and that has probably affected their games, and confidence, etc., but some guys just have to decide to suck it up and do the job.

I don't think they will be able to carry the puck in much at all this week as MI St defends their blue line with all 5. Pretty much have to chip and chase and HAVE to retrieve the puck. They can transition Sparty and rush, but they've got to be selective and not just keep throwing it into traffic. Khodorenko might be the best 200' player in the conference and he alone will create turnovers and make you eat it if you are not confident, crisp, accurate and all playing on the same page. Something they just haven't been able to do with consistency game to game.
Which is of course the trademark of young teams.

I don't know. There's a lot of talent here, but they have a lot to learn still. A lot about how to play at your best every time the puck drops, especially. Sounds easy, but it just isn't.
 
Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2019-20 Part II: Civil War

Wisko McBadgerton said:
Clearly the guys with the most talent and highest hockey IQ on this team have the least experience. Experience is probably the biggest factor in predicting NCAA hockey success. Upperclassmen win, underclassmen contribute. Yes there are frosh superstars, like Kyle Connor, Brock Boesser, Jack Eichel, et. al., but who are those guys paired with? Compher and Motte;(both in NHL) Caggiula and Schmaltz; (both in NHL) Rodriguez and O'Regan;(both in NHL)... Our guys don't have the luxury of playing on lines with seniors like Geoffrion and Davies, or Burish and MacMurchy, or even Zengerle and Mike Mersch right now. So I think they are climbing a very steep learning curve with a lot of extra weight on their shoulders. But it's always going to be that way for them. As long as they play hockey they will be under a lot of pressure to produce because they have talent. Might as well get used to it. The other guys we do have that are playing up top.. well, they're probably largely out of position and that has probably affected their games, and confidence, etc., but some guys just have to decide to suck it up and do the job.
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This is interesting. A friendly discussional counter to this would be Heatley, who played with a role player Hukalo and stud Rhino.
 
Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2019-20 Part II: Civil War

This is going to be a long, cold winter. The paths the hockey and basketball teams are taking is almost laughable.
 
Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2019-20 Part II: Civil War

MadCityRich said:
This is going to be a long, cold winter. The paths the hockey and basketball teams are taking is almost laughable.
Click to expand...

Scene: Wisconsin Basketball forum

Commentor 1: "Ugh, that was yet another tough loss."

Commentor 2: "Sure, but the basketball team has a great recruiting class coming in next year, that will fix everything, RIGHT?!?"

Camera pans to corner of a the room where a small puppy is crapping on the carpet, he turns to the camera and a single tear falls from his eye.

...and scene...
 
Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2019-20 Part II: Civil War

Timothy A said:
This is interesting. A friendly discussional counter to this would be Heatley, who played with a role player Hukalo and stud Rhino.
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True that Hukalo, while a good enough player, was no superstar. It's interesting to me though that they basically take Rhino and Dustin Kuk off that 31 win team and the next year playing a not too difficult schedule, they are terribly inconsistent starting 7-0 then going 1-8. Basically a .500 team until they strung 5 wins together from the last week of Feb into March. Heater still gets his points, (well, because he's a year more experienced and probably the most talented F outside of MJ we ever had) but the team just doesn't play the same way. Kinda plays like this one a lot of the year.

I imagine Eichel would have had quite a few points playing with a couple of stiffs, probably nowhere near 70, but he was a dominating player, so a lot. There are quite a few of examples of 18 yr old stars that struggle as frosh though without strong upperclassmen to play with. Look through BU's recent rosters.

The '01 team is a good reminder though that even if you are only around .500 into late February, you're still not out of it if you can play good hockey and string some wins together at the end.

Coming into this season I didn't expect total domination. I expected that it would probably be a second half team if it was going to do anything with all these youngsters. So while I think they've definitely thrown away some wins, and also not played very well the last couple weeks, can't really write them off completely yet. Hopefully they play well this weekend whether they win or not, then the guys go the WJ and and everybody comes back better and ready to get some wins in the second half. Hopefully...
 
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