Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

I agree with this but they have not yet been able to bring in their forwards in mass....leaving their identity in limbo. I think starting in 2019-2020 they will have enough of the type of forwards they want on the roster to play to the identity they want to have.

Perhaps that's true, but that does leave me a little uneasy. There were probably 9-11 F's on this roster that will play pro hockey, so I would think you could get something out of them that is more recognizable. In other words, if we can really only play the way we want to when we can get a dozen first rounders on the ice -- well, that's an overall plan that makes me a bit nervous, especially given the NHL's drastically increased appetite for young players. (was surprised that they offered to burn a year off of Mittlestadt's ELC to get him signed, for example)

FTR, I'm behind Tony 100%. I just think he's too smart and too competitive not to win here. It just feels to me a little like the steepness of the learning curve got him a little this year. When it's March and he's saying "Man, I just can't believe we're an under .500 team." It kinda leaves the impression that he doesn't know why that happened and that's not a good thing. Whether you're winning or losing, hopefully you know why.

It's still hard to fathom that we were 10-7-1 and then could only manage 4 wins the last 18 games. We've all joked about "Climbing the Mountain" a million times, but it's originally a Badger Bob saying, and the one thing that was pretty constant over the years here was that unlike a number of pretty good gopher teams I can think of, the Badgers were consistently a better team in March than they were in December. Not this year. And that's a hard thing to get around.

 

[Rodhotter]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

Makes me wonder if something was amiss in the locker room.

 

[DPlaya]

The D will be in place to make good outlet passes this year so that part of the equation should be better this year. Perhaps that was more of an issue than the forwards.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

Makes me wonder if something was amiss in the locker room.

I thought that for a good portion of the year.

Originally I wasn't concerned in the least with Tony and the Olympics, but with the passing of JJ, it obviously not only took a personal toll on Tony, but significantly increased the demands on him and his time. Added to the apparent fragility of the team's mindset, perhaps that all played a significant role in the results as well.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

The D will be in place to make good outlet passes this year so that part of the equation should be better this year. Perhaps that was more of an issue than the forwards.

As Almington said, better D = better G.

Better D also hopefully means better puck recovery, turnaround and outlets to transition, which can than = better F's.

 

[WiscTJK]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

I thought that for a good portion of the year.

Originally I wasn't concerned in the least with Tony and the Olympics, but with the passing of JJ, it obviously not only took a personal toll on Tony, but significantly increased the demands on him and his time. Added to the apparent fragility of the team's mindset, perhaps that all played a significant role in the results as well.

I'm hoping there is an Adam Burish type guy in the incoming freshman to be a toughness leader. Two guys coming in are captains on their USHL team.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

Makes me wonder if something was amiss in the locker room.

What are the two big things that changed last year? DG/MS deal and the Hayton/Jurusik deal. Both of those could have been catalysts of discord, we will never know the answer.

I'm not convinced better D = better G in this case. UW has always had highly recruited G's, which equals talent. Opilka was UW's last highly recruited G. Lebedeff has played on Finland's U16/U18/U20 team, that is a good sign and he is projected to get drafted, another good sign. I'm not sure how highly recruited he was and where he is playing now is a little suspect. We'll have to see.

 

[Almington]

What are the two big things that changed last year? DG/MS deal and the Hayton/Jurusik deal. Both of those could have been catalysts of discord, we will never know the answer.

I'm not convinced better D = better G in this case. UW has always had highly recruited G's, which equals talent. Opilka was UW's last highly recruited G. Lebedeff has played on Finland's U16/U18/U20 team, that is a good sign and he is projected to get drafted, another good sign. I'm not sure how highly recruited he was and where he is playing now is a little suspect. We'll have to see.

Regardless of the goalie’s talent, you put a better D in front of him and you will get better G play. Get a fundamentally sound and mentally tough goalie and put them in front of a positionally strong D with good decision making and you will get above average goalie play and strong team defensive results.

Where a goalie plays and if he is drafted is highly irrelevant to how they perform at the college level. Trying to project out skaters is hard enough, goalie is even worse.

 

[sunprairie]

I think the Hayton/Jurusik deal was unfortunately a game changer for this team’s chemistry- and perhaps one that Granato wouldn’t see coming as he was still learning how to be a college coach. Sure these players at this level know they need to compete for position, but after Jurusik was pretty much brought in before he was ready to save Eaves’ butt - and did pretty well considering his youth in platoon with Berry (even despite the injuries) - I think the locker room was already on edge when Hayton was brought in and Jurusik was pretty much dumped on his behind unceremoniously (even though he was a popular guy in the locker room, and close with so many of the guys.) For Granato, losing in the Big 10 tourney his first year was a big disappointment. But we have to remember that for so many of the Badgers who had suffered through the debacles of the previous two Eaves years, last year was the greatest of successes. They had reached a peak they couldn’t have imagined the year before and were deep into preparing for even greater success this season through postseason practices and summer training, when one of the guys who had been a big part of that turnaround was kicked out for a supposed ringer who was the wrong kind of cocky (and seemingly a real opposite of Jurusik and Berry temperament and camaraderie-wise). So, the chips were already stacked against Hayton when he arrived, but had he actually been all he was promised to be, I think things would have gelled simply due to success. But when he faltered (and actually performed worse than Jurusik), I imagine that didn’t help locker room chemistry. Sure, this is all pure conjecture from a mere view from the stands, and sure at this level players need to know the best guy gets the gig, but there is also a certain kind of season-to-season chemistry that is very different at the college level than in the NHL (so many of these guys aren’t just teammates, but are classmates and roommates with a bond that’s different than professionals) and I wonder if TG didn’t learn that lesson the hard way with the Hayton deal - ie just because a player has talent doesn’t mean he’ll gel with a team, especially when adding him cuts a wound into an existing chemistry.

What are the two big things that changed last year? DG/MS deal and the Hayton/Jurusik deal. Both of those could have been catalysts of discord, we will never know the answer.

I'm not convinced better D = better G in this case. UW has always had highly recruited G's, which equals talent. Opilka was UW's last highly recruited G. Lebedeff has played on Finland's U16/U18/U20 team, that is a good sign and he is projected to get drafted, another good sign. I'm not sure how highly recruited he was and where he is playing now is a little suspect. We'll have to see.

 

[MadCityRich]

I can't disagree with the previous posts regarding the locker room. But I'd like to also add the fact that Granato was with the Olympic team for a few stretches. They can say they it wasn't a distraction, but everything points to that it WAS.

On a sidenote, I've been watching the early departures for the AHL/NHL this spring. MORE THAN EVER BEFORE, is the NCAA just a minor league system for the AHL/NHL?

 

[WiscTJK]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

What are the two big things that changed last year? DG/MS deal and the Hayton/Jurusik deal. Both of those could have been catalysts of discord, we will never know the answer.

I'm not convinced better D = better G in this case. UW has always had highly recruited G's, which equals talent. Opilka was UW's last highly recruited G. Lebedeff has played on Finland's U16/U18/U20 team, that is a good sign and he is projected to get drafted, another good sign. I'm not sure how highly recruited he was and where he is playing now is a little suspect. We'll have to see.

He's not even the best goalie on his own team. He is statistically equal if not slightly worse than the guy he has been sharing time with in Janesville. Not a good sign, IMO. Hopefully he can come in and compete. I try not to rip a kid who has been offered and signed, but here are the stats:

7th Nieto 30 GP, 2.07 GAA, .927 SP
10th Lebedeff 29 GP, 2.32 GAA, .923 SP

 

[bucky15]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

He's not even the best goalie on his own team. He is statistically equal if not slightly worse than the guy he has been sharing time with in Janesville. Not a good sign, IMO. Hopefully he can come in and compete. I try not to rip a kid who has been offered and signed, but here are the stats:

7th Nieto 30 GP, 2.07 GAA, .927 SP
10th Lebedeff 29 GP, 2.32 GAA, .923 SP

Tough crowd on Lebedeff. It's interesting all the negativity around him and I bet no one has even seen him play.

It will be interesting to see the comments on him 10/12 months from now.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

Tough crowd on Lebedeff. It's interesting all the negativity around him and I bet no one has even seen him play.

It will be interesting to see the comments on him 10/12 months from now.

Lebedeff had a bit of a slow start on the year which isn't a big surprise for a kid coming in from another country. He has been terrific in his last 15 games since early December. One team meltdown a couple of weeks ago in the opener at #1 Fairbanks when they had 7 against. He bounced back nicely though and held them to 2 in regulation before eventually losing it in OT a couple nights later.

Has given up only 1 or 0 goals against in 10 of his other 14 starts and just 3 against in the remaining ones. Have a friend that watches the Jets quite a bit and Lebedeff has been the better of the two. Nieto is a year older and has been doing enough to deserve his chances too, though. Good position for the Jets to be in with two guys going strong.


I'm not really ready to completely give up on Jack the Giant Killer yet either. He has had some really spectacular performances, specifically in the B1G tournament where he gave up just 2 in 146 minutes; vs. MN this year in which he just carried the whole team to a win; shutting out Notre Dame and ending their 16 game winning streak. Hindsight says that had Jack just been given the net every night, while he may have had a few more bad starts, he'd have had a lot more good ones too, and we probably would have won more games.

Jack has shown he can be extremely tough mentally, and that's a big deal for goalies in my book. I won't panic if he's the guy starting it off next year.

 

[MadCityRich]

He's not even the best goalie on his own team. He is statistically equal if not slightly worse than the guy he has been sharing time with in Janesville. Not a good sign, IMO. Hopefully he can come in and compete. I try not to rip a kid who has been offered and signed, but here are the stats:

7th Nieto 30 GP, 2.07 GAA, .927 SP
10th Lebedeff 29 GP, 2.32 GAA, .923 SP

Im not ripping him, but he's in the NAHL Tier 2 (count `em, TWO). You HAVE to consider his opponents.

Why isn't he in the Tier 1 USHL? You are who you are.

I don't think that it's so much negativity towards Lebedeff, but the inability of a team formerly known as "Goalie U", to land a Blue Chip goaltender.

 

[gwhinwi]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

Im not ripping him, but he's in the NAHL Tier 2 (count `em, TWO). You HAVE to consider his opponents.

Why isn't he in the Tier 1 USHL? You are who you are.

I don't think that it's so much negativity towards Lebedeff, but the inability of a team formerly known as "Goalie U", to land a Blue Chip goaltender.

Maybe they have seen some of the defensive issues that we've been dealing with over the past few years and have thought better than to come here as it would impact their future prospects.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

Im not ripping him, but he's in the NAHL Tier 2 (count `em, TWO). You HAVE to consider his opponents.

Why isn't he in the Tier 1 USHL? You are who you are.

I don't think that it's so much negativity towards Lebedeff, but the inability of a team formerly known as "Goalie U", to land a Blue Chip goaltender.

Watched a beer league goalie play in the NHL last week. That's like tier 43, but he was pretty good.

You kinda are ripping him. Based on where he is playing as an 18 year old goalie you're implying pretty strongly he must not be any good.

All the NCAA tournament teams except Cornell had commits in the NAHL in '16-'17. Cornell lost, so all 8 teams in the Regionals and all the Frozen Four teams had committed players in the NAHL then too. Same with all the teams that finished ahead of us in the B1G as well as almost every team ahead of us in the PWR.

Wisconsin didn't have any, of course. We're too good for those bums.

 

[WiscTJK]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

Tough crowd on Lebedeff. It's interesting all the negativity around him and I bet no one has even seen him play.

It will be interesting to see the comments on him 10/12 months from now.

I think your post is fair. I haven't seen him play. I hope he and Jack Berry are great. I am just not confident that they will be based on the last few years.

 

[MadCityRich]

Watched a beer league goalie play in the NHL last week. That's like tier 43, but he was pretty good.

You kinda are ripping him. Based on where he is playing as an 18 year old goalie you're implying pretty strongly he must not be any good.

All the NCAA tournament teams except Cornell had commits in the NAHL in '16-'17. Cornell lost, so all 8 teams in the Regionals and all the Frozen Four teams had committed players in the NAHL then too. Same with all the teams that finished ahead of us in the B1G as well as almost every team ahead of us in the PWR.

Wisconsin didn't have any, of course. We're too good for those bums.

I'm calling Bull **** on your post. Age has no bearing.....there are 16 and 17 year olds in the USHL. Chicago had a 6 to 2 lead and the Jets didnt give a ******. Scott Foster played the last 14 minutes and had 7 saves. Also, you better believe that Q told the D to step or they'll be dusters.

How many of those recruits you speak of were goaltenders? 1st liners? I've said it before, I'll say it again, you're 3rd or 4th chair trumpet player, 3rd or 4th string QB, 3rd or 4th assistant manager at a business OR in the NAHL for a reason.

I'll make a deal with you. You take guys from the NAHL and I'll take guys from the USHL. If you win one ****ing game, I'll buy you one Ian's Pizza a month for life. We just have to find more financial backing to start a couple teams.

This program should not have to look at Tier 2 programs for players and I didn't call them bums.

 

[WiscTJK]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

Ugly attendance data for UW hockey:

http://host.madison.com/wsj/sports/...cle_8196e185-74c5-58ed-bf83-7ac8a1c11a57.html

To be fair, bouncy ball was down too. It's probably never going to get back to what it was in 2006 - 2010.

 

[gwhinwi]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

Ugly attendance data for UW hockey:

http://host.madison.com/wsj/sports/...cle_8196e185-74c5-58ed-bf83-7ac8a1c11a57.html

To be fair, bouncy ball was down too. It's probably never going to get back to what it was in 2006 - 2010.

Actually, it was higher attendance this season, but lower numbers of tickets scanned. So... a bit of a good news, but until they start winning more consistently, it's going to be hard to get the crowds back.