Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

[solovsfett]

What exactly is your definition of a "national power"? Seriously, what are your criteria?

Going back 24 years puts as in the 93-94 / 94-95 range. Yeah, that was a great stretch from 87-88 to 94-98. 8 years in a row of making the tournament, 1 championship. 24 or more wins every year.

I would argue that there have been other stretches, and certainly other years where we have been a power.

I'll admit, that stretch from the late 80s to mid 90s was amazing. Who knows if it will ever happen again...but I would disagree with the notion that we haven't been a "national power" in over 2 decades. But we all know that I'm the apologist, glass is half full, everything is fine guy...so take that with a grain of salt.

My definition of national power is consistent NCAA championship contender, period. From 1971 to 1994 that's what Wisconsin hockey was. Even in years where they missed the tourney: see Ranheim, Tuttle, Granato, they were **** good and we could sense the team was RIGHT THERE.

Since 1994, Sauer's recruiting fell off and Eaves had about 2-3 great seasons, some good seasons and a few terrible ones. So this last 24 years? No, Wisconsin has not been a national power. Just an occasional spark.

Another way to say it is over the last 24 years look at: Denver, Michigan, North Dakota, Boston College and to lesser degrees Minnesota, St. Cloud, Duluth, Boston University.

Wisconsin has been OUT of the conversation more often than not for almost a quarter century now.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

My definition of national power is consistent NCAA championship contender, period. From 1971 to 1994 that's what Wisconsin hockey was. Even in years where they missed the tourney: see Ranheim, Tuttle, Granato, they were **** good and we could sense the team was RIGHT THERE.

Since 1994, Sauer's recruiting fell off and Eaves had about 2-3 great seasons, some good seasons and a few terrible ones. So this last 24 years? No, Wisconsin has not been a national power. Just an occasional spark.

Another way to say it is over the last 24 years look at: Denver, Michigan, North Dakota, Boston College and to lesser degrees Minnesota, St. Cloud, Duluth, Boston University.

Wisconsin has been OUT of the conversation more often than not for almost a quarter century now.

Nobody can argue with a straight face that the recent level of success at Wisconsin is acceptable.

Having said that though, the game has changed. In the last 10 years 15 different teams have played for the title. (BC 3 times and perennial super powers Duluth and Quinnipiac, twice each.) In the 10 years prior to that only 8 different teams played for the title. College hockey then and earlier was what the women's game is now. Totally dominated by a handful of programs. BC was the last men's dynasty of note, and unless something changes within the game, nobody will go on a run like that again in the foreseeable future. Too many good players and too much talent leaves early.

Ranheim, Tuttle, and Granato all played 4 years. Granato is a one and done today. Maybe two years out of Ranheim and Tuttle if you're lucky. Can you put 15-20 draft picks on a team today and have a bunch of them sit or just play 4th line minutes until they get their chance? Hard to imagine today, but that's more the way it was. Unless something changes in the upcoming CBA, building another dynasty is a long shot. The talent level of 18 year old stars is just not enough to consistently overcome 23-25 year old players with maturity, hockey sense, and great work ethic. By the time it is, the youngsters are gone because it saves the NHL money on salaries. Maybe something will change there but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

Serious inquiry guys, do you think the Badgers sub-500 season is due mostly to a failure in coaching or are the players mostly to blame? Thanks.

Who knows. If you read my posts I believe the constant line-up changes created on ice chemistry issues @ forward. Hayton's rough season doomed them, but no one could have predicted that. Mark Stroebel was a curious hire to replace Don Granato, they are not in the same league. Special teams were below average. I guess I'm voting coaching.

 

[druzy192]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

Maybe good ole Tony Granato is still getting used to college hockey. Constantly changing lines and having players looking over their shoulders is an NHL thing I assume. Maybe that approach will work for the team eventually... or maybe he'll have to change it up to make it more college friendly.

It's Tony Granato. Olympic coach. Former NHL coach. Charismatic guy who can obviously recruit. I have a very hard time believing that he will have sustained losing at this University. I think he'll figure it out. If he has to fire coaches or do whatever... I don't think he's leaving Wisconsin as a loser.

That being said this season was a dumpster fire sh*t storm and the team looked tri-polar. So hopefully he figures it out soon. Like next year.

And they should work on winning face offs.

 

[Schmitty]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

I vote hope. I don’t need my potential grad school team to be as depressing as my undergrad.

 

[MadCityRich]

My definition of national power is consistent NCAA championship contender, period. From 1971 to 1994 that's what Wisconsin hockey was. Even in years where they missed the tourney: see Ranheim, Tuttle, Granato, they were **** good and we could sense the team was RIGHT THERE.

Since 1994, Sauer's recruiting fell off and Eaves had about 2-3 great seasons, some good seasons and a few terrible ones. So this last 24 years? No, Wisconsin has not been a national power. Just an occasional spark.

Another way to say it is over the last 24 years look at: Denver, Michigan, North Dakota, Boston College and to lesser degrees Minnesota, St. Cloud, Duluth, Boston University.

Wisconsin has been OUT of the conversation more often than not for almost a quarter century now.

I agree and I'm ****ing sick of being told to be patient. I expected better things this year, but I kind of had a feeling with the loss of Kunin and Don G, and Tony coaching the olympics. Absence of snipers, defense and goaltending (a total breakdown) marked doom for this team.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

my potential grad school

Do you know how to Polka, or are you willing to learn?

If you want to be a Badger, just come along with me,
By the light, by the light, by the light of the moon.
If you want to be a Badger, just come along with me,
By the bright shining light of the moon.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

Maybe good ole Tony Granato is still getting used to college hockey.

I think this.

He's the right guy but it's a different job. Like any new situation there's a learning curve. I believe' he'll produce winners.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

I agree and I'm ****ing sick of being told to be patient.

Oz was very much on this message the last post game and then later with a tweet about everyone expecting instant oatmeal. I kinda was disappointed by that. He knows the expectation is to win and to win and to win.

On assistants, I don't know Strobel well, but I know some hockey people that do and they all have a lot of respect for him, his work ethic, his enthusiasm and his hockey sense, not to mention his all out Badger-ness. Whether he's a step down from Donny-- well, a lot of people think Donny is going to be the next Blackhawks HC, so probably everyone is a step down. I'm not sure how that reflects poorly on Strobel though, as I can't think of any other NHL head coach people that are willing to be assistants at UW.

It's been suggested Steve Miller would have been so much better. True that Miller has been one of the premier assistants in college hockey, but Miller primarily made his name as the best recruiter in college hockey. In Oz we have what many people also consider to be the best recruiter in college hockey. If you hired Miller, who's going to be the recruiter in charge? I don't see how that makes sense, or how that works, or why either Oz or Miller would want to be in that situation.

 

[MadCityRich]

Oz was very much on this message the last post game and then later with a tweet about everyone expecting instant oatmeal. I kinda was disappointed by that. He knows the expectation is to win and to win and to win.

On assistants, I don't know Strobel well, but I know some hockey people that do and they all have a lot of respect for him, his work ethic, his enthusiasm and his hockey sense, not to mention his all out Badger-ness. Whether he's a step down from Donny-- well, a lot of people think Donny is going to be the next Blackhawks HC, so probably everyone is a step down. I'm not sure how that reflects poorly on Strobel though, as I can't think of any other NHL head coach people that are willing to be assistants at UW.

It's been suggested Steve Miller would have been so much better. True that Miller has been one of the premier assistants in college hockey, but Miller primarily made his name as the best recruiter in college hockey. In Oz we have what many people also consider to be the best recruiter in college hockey. If you hired Miller, who's going to be the recruiter in charge? I don't see how that makes sense, or how that works, or why either Oz or Miller would want to be in that situation.

I met Mark when he was a Badger, then again at the last WI Hockey Backers luncheon; only a 25+/- year spread! I may have posted here that after hearing him speak, I would go to war with him. I have NO idea how that translates to coaching college hockey, but we've got a year or two to find out. I'm really rooting for somebody with that much passion and hopefully, knowledge.

 

[MadCityRich]

Down go the goofettes. Nice going, ladies!!!

I'm watching Ped St @ Neuter Dame for a period before I head out. Who do you like/want? As much as I dislike NoDame, I HATE Ped St.(ESPN-U)

 

[digitalbooya]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

At least one Badger puck team knows how to kick the gophers azz.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

At least one Badger puck team knows how to kick the gophers azz.

They sure do play cohesively and they value puck possession, minimal blind passes and dump ins. It does suck that the rodents got a trophy last week, but 5-1 against them for the season and knocking them out of the ncaa works out ok.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

Watched the Badger Women destroy the gophers. The way they totally dominated the team they had just lost to is a good demonstration of how small the difference between being really good and losing is in hockey. Confidence and momentum mean everything. Just play two more like that Badgers!

Jake Linhart signed with the AHL Rochester Americans. I think Jake's a guy that wasn't blessed with all the natural physical abilities that a lot of other guys have and he's had to work harder than most to earn this opportunity at the next level. After a very successful Junior season as the puck mover on a pairing with Peter Tischke, Jake was asked to take on a totally different role this year as Oz matched upperclassmen with freshman. Had JD been available I don't doubt that Jake would have remained in place with Tischke and been much more productive. But as it was, Jake was asked to play the stay at home D with Kalynuk running the breakout, something I don't think Jake was particularly well suited for, but nevertheless, and to his great credit, he did his best in the interest of the team. Jake was counted on to play big minutes and clutch shifts all year and ended up blocking 52 shots on the season. Thanks for everything and congratulations Jake!

Also Captain Cameron Hughes has signed with the Providence Bruins. IMO the future is very bright for Cameron. I think he'll really excel playing a faster game with faster team mates. I'm sure this year wasn't all he'd hoped it would be but I can't fault him. He did everything that was asked of him without balking and was the definition of a team player. Coming off shoulder surgery that limited his physical development in the off season he played everywhere in the top nine, getting moved around constantly to try to help other guys get going. And then usually double shifting in with the top line late when things weren't gelling there either. After watching him for 4 years we easily forget that Hughes is essentially the same age as freshman Baker and Kalynuk. Can't find a better person anywhere and despite the overall results it's been a great pleasure watching Cam play 4 years here. Very proud to have him associated with Badger Hockey. Congratulations and thanks, Cameron!

 

[WiscTJK]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

On assistants, I don't know Strobel well, but I know some hockey people that do and they all have a lot of respect for him, his work ethic, his enthusiasm and his hockey sense, not to mention his all out Badger-ness. Whether he's a step down from Donny-- well, a lot of people think Donny is going to be the next Blackhawks HC, so probably everyone is a step down. I'm not sure how that reflects poorly on Strobel though, as I can't think of any other NHL head coach people that are willing to be assistants at UW.

It's been suggested Steve Miller would have been so much better. True that Miller has been one of the premier assistants in college hockey, but Miller primarily made his name as the best recruiter in college hockey. In Oz we have what many people also consider to be the best recruiter in college hockey. If you hired Miller, who's going to be the recruiter in charge? I don't see how that makes sense, or how that works, or why either Oz or Miller would want to be in that situation.

I hope you are right, but believe you to be wrong. We will see. Based on what I see, Tony didn't get the right assistant. Doesn't mean it should have been Steve Miller (just that the comparison with Ohio State based on previous jobs / replacements). I think an offensive minded person should have been a priority. And you can go out of the Wisconsin tree of coaches once and a while....

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

I hope you are right, but believe you to be wrong. We will see. Based on what I see, Tony didn't get the right assistant. Doesn't mean it should have been Steve Miller (just that the comparison with Ohio State based on previous jobs / replacements). I think an offensive minded person should have been a priority. And you can go out of the Wisconsin tree of coaches once and a while....

I would venture to say that Miller is a better recruiter than Oz, but not by a wide margin. And yes, it's ok to hire the best possible assistant, whether or not they have ties to UW. Oz and DG WERE the best possible hires when TG arrived.

 

[WiscTJK]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

I would venture to say that Miller is a better recruiter than Oz, but not by a wide margin. And yes, it's ok to hire the best possible assistant, whether or not they have ties to UW. Oz and DG WERE the best possible hires when TG arrived.

Definitely agree with that. Was Mark Strobel the best possible hire? I was the one who hated the hire of Gary Shuchuk and took lots of heat for arguing that. I will leave it alone from here.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

I would venture to say that Miller is a better recruiter than Oz, but not by a wide margin.

You can argue the point, but in 6 years here Ozzie recruited 22 guys who played in the NHL. In 20 years at DU Miller got 40 guys who played in the NHL. (The math says that extrapolating Oz's 6 years to 20 years would equal 73 NHLer's! )

Can't predict the future but in a year and a half back here I'd venture to say Oz signed up quite a few more that will play in the NHL. It's hard to make the case that anybody is really better than Oz at getting top talent, unless perhaps it's Quinn and his staff lately.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

Definitely agree with that. Was Mark Strobel the best possible hire? I was the one who hated the hire of Gary Shuchuk and took lots of heat for arguing that. I will leave it alone from here.

I think lots of people on this site questioned Shuchuk's hire.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

I just think scapegoating Strobel is an easy excuse. What's the beef? Offense wasn't good enough? PP wasn't good enough? Strobel's OSU PP was #1 in the country last year by a wide margin. (31.6%) so that would seem to indicate he's not incapable of coaching up a good PP.

Statistically speaking the O was worse, the D was worse, the PK was worse and the PP was worse as compared to last year. Strobel isn't in charge of everything.

If you look at the stats. the thing that really stands out this year is the 38 point swing in PP-PK differential. (Last year was +29. This year was -9) We took way to many stupid penalties on the year especially in key moments. 9 on the TEAM, plus 10 guys with 10+ penalties. Last year 4 guys had 10+. Linhart and Ess played similar minutes to Tischke and Kalynuk. Ess and Linhart had 9 combined penalties. Tischke and Kalynuk had freakin' 43 combined. Last year Besse had 28 points and 4 penalties. This year Dhooghe had half the points and 4x the penalties playing a similar spot. Inamoto had 18. (Only 6 after the break though to be fair.)



The number of times the Badgers shot themselves in the foot with a momentum killing undisciplined penalty is pretty large. If %'s are all the same, just that swing in pp-pk differential is worth at least 8-10 goals. Badgers lost 7 -1 goal games plus gave up 9 ENG on the year. In a season where 3-5 games made the difference of in or out...