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Why does playoff turnout everwhere seem so low?

Re: Why does playoff turnout everwhere seem so low?

I've never gone to the Hockey East tournament, because, as many have mentioned, I would prefer to stay home and watch all the tournament games on Direct TV. Friday was a glorious 7+ hour of non-stop college hockey including the Hockey East tournament. We've usually gone to Worcester or Manchester for the regionals, but I decided this year to stay home and watch as much as I can. I don't have to worry about Harvard making it to Lake Placid as long as Donato is the coach, but have gone there a couple of times in the past, including them winning the tournament in the early 90's, and that's enough. Nice place to visit once or twice, but Albany is a much better place to travel to, a reasonable trip from Boston. Wondered why there were tournaments in both Minneapolis and St. Paul, wouldn't that bring the attendance down at each arena?
 
Re: Why does playoff turnout everwhere seem so low?

I suppose that makes sense. But as someone who used to fly for work all the time, you get used to it. It was my job, no point in complaining about it (if that's what he was doing). I just think that when you travel, you know that there's a chance of flight delays, or cancellations. Hell, if they're flying charter, that's even easier than having to go through what regular passengers do at the airport.
Me too. 50K plus for years, upgrades, clubs - almost as good as it could be flying commercial other than paying for 1st class. I didn't mind it, have some great stories, met some good people sharing rented cars to drive home from socked in NYC area airports, was actually on the west coast on 9-11. Wouldn't change a thing, but do not miss it one bit especially in the TSA era. Love my own, bed!

When relaying the story, the announcers made a point of saying he wasn't complaining or making excuses, just stating facts.
 
Re: Why does playoff turnout everwhere seem so low?

When you take the two biggest fan bases in the old WCHA and split them into 2 conference tourneys, this i what you get. Nobody should be surprised by the attendance numbers at the western tournaments.

I agree this has a lot to do with it. I'm not sure if you were including WI in this statement but either way, I agree. And with the Badger BBall team being placed in Milwaukee for the NC$$'s, that drew fans away from Minneapolis. But with NoDak in a different conference than Minnesota and UW, the fan base for conference tournaments - even when they are held in the same metro region - will be watered down. If they could only find a way to hold the B1G and NCHC conference tournaments at the same time in the same facility, that would make for quite an event.
 
Re: Why does playoff turnout everwhere seem so low?

I've never gone to the Hockey East tournament, because, as many have mentioned, I would prefer to stay home and watch all the tournament games on Direct TV. Friday was a glorious 7+ hour of non-stop college hockey including the Hockey East tournament. We've usually gone to Worcester or Manchester for the regionals, but I decided this year to stay home and watch as much as I can. I don't have to worry about Harvard making it to Lake Placid as long as Donato is the coach, but have gone there a couple of times in the past, including them winning the tournament in the early 90's, and that's enough. Nice place to visit once or twice, but Albany is a much better place to travel to, a reasonable trip from Boston. Wondered why there were tournaments in both Minneapolis and St. Paul, wouldn't that bring the attendance down at each arena?

Harvard fans didn't travel to Lake Placid or Albany. Even in 1994, when they won it all, they were outnumbered by all three other schools in attendance. You'll find Cornell, RPI, Clarkson, and SLU fans at any ECAC championship, so why not put it in a location that's central for all of them (except Cornell, but their fans travel anywhere).
 
Re: Why does playoff turnout everwhere seem so low?

When you take the two biggest fan bases in the old WCHA and split them into 2 conference tourneys, this i what you get. Nobody should be surprised by the attendance numbers at the western tournaments.

They split Minnesota and Michigan???
 
Re: Why does playoff turnout everwhere seem so low?

Give me a break. You could have gotten into the building for 60 bucks for all 4 games. That is 15 bucks a game. You could have then gone down to the lower level. Instead YOU CHOSE to spend that money at the bar. There was no price point that would have brought you in if 15 bucks a game was too expensive.

Not talking about me per se but more so about the casual fan/family with kids in hockey/etc. They are highly unlikely to want to go downtown and deal with scalpers. Let them lock in at a lower price up front and you might get them to lock in for the weekend. I'm not a big fan of dealing with scalpers either particularly when you have a group of people going. Yes, you can get in for cheaper. Yes, you can absolutely move around once you get in. And then yes, you can pay $7+ per beer and eat crap food and we're still dealing with a sterile atmosphere.

If the attendance numbers were truly around 10,000 paid (doesn't matter if they were there or not) and we assume most went the $130 package route, then you're talking $1.3M in ticket revenue. Simple math says we'd need to see that number jump to 13,000 to get the same ticket revenue if they dropped the package to $100. Although you'd see higher in arena revenues with that increase which would be great for the Target Center but I don't believe the league gets a cut of that. Could totally be wrong on that.

And the more I think about it, they probably get to 13,000 at the current rate as long as you get SCSU or UMD in the tourney. In this league, that will never be a given. You could think about offering the discounted rate for earlier purchasers but those people are the most likely to pay full boat. Offering a steep discount to the johnny come latelys would then upset your core. Tough marketing equation the league has to deal with.
 
Re: Why does playoff turnout everwhere seem so low?

Well, let's take a look at just how convenient it is to fly & bus upon arrival in Hockey East land:

UVM to Burlington International ........................3.5 miles
UNH to Pease International ............................11.3 miles
Maine to Bangor International ........................12.5 miles
UConn (XL Center) to Bradley International ......16.2 miles
BC to Hanscom Field (Bedford) .......................17.7 miles
BU to Hanscom Field ....................................20.2 miles
UMass-Lowell to Hanscom Field .....................20.6 miles
Northeastern to Hanscom Field ....................21.7 miles
Merrimack to Hanscom Field .........................29.5 miles
UMass to Bradley International .....................46.9 miles

PC uses transporters. Like Star Trek.
 
Re: Why does playoff turnout everwhere seem so low?

Who knows, maybe HEA wasn't Jackson's choice, but the ND administration thought it was the place to be.

One of the worst kept secrets around Notre Dame is that Jackson absolutely wanted to go with the NCHC after the first 5 publicly teams bolted the CCHA. In fact his first choice after the formation of B1G Hockey was that no one else would leave the CCHA and it would have kept going, but once that wasn't in the cards, he was more interested in keeping a couple of old rivalries and re-igniting a few older ones that preceded his time in South Bend. Notre Dame was the last domino that fell that off season. The NCHC tells it a little differently claiming they rejected Notre Dame, and since most people around here don't care about the facts, I guess they get to say what they want. I'm sure I'm not the only one around here who has seen the initial private correspondences where Notre Dame is listed as one of the founding members of the NCHC. The NCHC's public "rejection" happened only after Notre Dame eventually decided to go elsewhere and the ink was already dry on their contract with Hockey East.

Initially I hoped for the NCHC too, then eventually after the dominoes were repositioned I was happy with Hockey East. But now, after a season of only having one road game within easy reach and attending a conference tourney not being a realistic proposition, I am back on the fence. Many of the fans I know felt similarly. All this crap isn't over IMO as well. In another five years there will be a couple of schools that drop hockey, the NCAA is going to undergo another round of huge seismic shifting led by the large football conferences, and I believe we're going to revisit the summer of 2012 all over again.
 
Re: Why does playoff turnout everwhere seem so low?

I wonder what Notre Dame's HEA exit clause is? Who knows, but in a few years if things don't turn out as expected and they decide to bolt, I suspect Bertagna negotiated a sweet windfall for HEA.

I'd certainly be all for Notre Dame joining the NCHC.

We'd need another team, though, to round things out to 10 teams.

How about plucking Air Force (who, if you can believe it, gets the honor of opening UNO's new arena to start the '15-'16 season) out of Atlantic Hockey? They are great logistical fit and would then supply us with at least one cannon fodder team in the league. :D

Hell, you can pretty much ride your bicycle between Air Force and CC's arenas. What is it, 15 miles, maybe? To say nothing of DU being less than an hour away.

And, by golly, they actually have more hockey legacy than UNO does.:rolleyes:
 
Re: Why does playoff turnout everwhere seem so low?

I'd certainly be all for Notre Dame joining the NCHC.

We'd need another team, though, to round things out to 10 teams.

How about plucking Air Force (who, if you can believe it, gets the honor of opening UNO's new arena to start the '15-'16 season) out of Atlantic Hockey? They are great logistical fit and would then supply us with at least one cannon fodder team in the league. :D

Hell, you can pretty much ride your bicycle between Air Force and CC's arenas. What is it, 15 miles, maybe? To say nothing of DU being less than an hour away.

And, by golly, they actually have more hockey legacy than UNO does.:rolleyes:

Do you know ANYTHING about college hockey? Air Force left the CHA to join Army (service academies; which if you want a tinfoil hat, started this whole mess in the first place) and NaCHo courted ND in the first place, which ND denied and followed the money, which led to the NaCHo courting Western and SCSU.
 
Re: Why does playoff turnout everwhere seem so low?

Quote Originally Posted by FireKnight View Post

Harvard fans didn't travel to Lake Placid or Albany....


They don't travel to the Beanpot, either.


Nor their home rink, Bright Center, which is just across the Charles River. :eek:
 
Re: Why does playoff turnout everwhere seem so low?

People are scared of financial uncertainty. The last business I would EVER get into would be one that depends on the spending of discretionary dollars. It's one thing if everyone KNEW they were going to save that wonderful $2500 on their health care annually. But not only will THAT not happen, costs are likely to double or quadruple. So health-care costs come first, and that slams the doors on going out to dinner, going to hockey games like these, going to the movies, and most certainly jetting off to Orlando to go to Disneyworld where the daily cost for one person to pass through the turnstiles is $99. No wonder Disney bought ESPN with its guaranteed revenue stream from everyone's cable bill.

Discretionary spending is crashing at about the same fever that mandatory spending is skyrocketing. Things everyone NEEDS are costing more...way more. And after you get done shelling out cash for all those things you need, what you might 'want' evaporates. Ergo, empty arenas. And how you KNOW this is happening is when NFL games aren't selling out. There are more and more games with empty seats with each passing year, because along with the ticket price comes parking and food. And before you know it, you realize that your big-screen TV is a pretty good substitute. As I will this weekend, instead of going to Worcester. I **AM** going to be one of those empty seats at the DCU Centre. I don't begrudge anyone who WILL end up going, but don't you dare get on my case for NOT going.
 
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Re: Why does playoff turnout everwhere seem so low?

Interesting historical graphic of conference attendance. Big hit this year.
http://www.uscho.com/2014/03/25/int...urnament-down-40-percent-from-a-year-earlier/

Attendance figures to me anymore are simply a figment of the imagination of the PR people in charge. For many of these box scores and announced crowds there is no basis in fact. It is not tickets sold. We all know one of the huge reasons for drops in attendance is the high cost of tickets. I don't see how anyone can logically argue that this ISN'T the case. Yet year after year as we see more and more empty seats, everyone says that attendance figures supposedly represent tickets sold. There is no way, as tight as most people's budgets are nowadays, that more than 7000 people shelled out the $$$ to BUY B1G tickets on Thursday, then 5 or 6000 of them simply decided not to go. Anyone who saw the crowd for the PSU/UM game KNOWS there weren't 2000 people in the building. And since there were separate tickets required for the second game, you can't say it was the OSU and MSU fans just not showing up yet.

It's only going to get worse IMO. People's spending habits are changing rapidly and substantially when it comes to live sporting events. More and more they have decided this isn't a good value for the price. The Big Ten will do no better in Detroit next near based on the huge dropoff in the interest in the CCHA tournament in Detroit. Van Andel wasn't a total disaster this year due to a decent number of Ferris fans turning out to watch their top seeded team win, but there were still 8 or 9000 empty seats for all the sessions. How many will be in tow next year in the twin cities, especially if the Bulldogs have a down season? Hockey East will now be the standard bearer and did OK based on the absense of any Boston based teams, but there isn't any reason to believe it will improve over time with the way this is trending. It has dropped thousands per session since the early and mid 2000s.

What's worse is I don't see the conferences EVER admitting the conference tournaments are a mistake, no matter how bad this gets. I can envion the day when there are hundreds of people in the stands for some of these games, and yet we will still see box scores that claim there were 5000 there.

It seems to me that instead of having confernence tournaments that have no excitement and don't generate substantial revenue, the leagues should eliminate them and petition the NCAA for a small lengthening of the regular season, perhaps one or two weekends. Another home game or 2 would be much more interesting to most fans than a conference tournament played in a stale and sterile atmosphere, one that nearly every single person who attends a team's home games won't bother to attend.

For leagues that don't expect a second bid as well, the upside is you are sending your best team to the NCAAs. While the gap is closing between the bigger and smaller leagues, it hasn't shut completely. A 6th place DU or an 8th place Notre Dame winning this weekend won't be a total shock, but a middle of the pack Atlantic Hockey team is a much longer shot. If I am Atlantic Hockey I certainly want my best team, one that proved that over more than 2 dozen games, to give the leagues best shot in the NCAAs. Had 1st place Niagara played Notre Dame instead of a last place UAH team that got hot over three days, perhaps CHA would have had a huge upset victory in regular time instead of a double OT loss.

Fans are voting with their wallets and their feet. But the arrogance of those who run college sports means admitting what you are doing isn't working and needs big change will never happen.
 
Re: Why does playoff turnout everwhere seem so low?

One of the worst kept secrets around Notre Dame is that Jackson absolutely wanted to go with the NCHC after the first 5 publicly teams bolted the CCHA. In fact his first choice after the formation of B1G Hockey was that no one else would leave the CCHA and it would have kept going, but once that wasn't in the cards, he was more interested in keeping a couple of old rivalries and re-igniting a few older ones that preceded his time in South Bend. Notre Dame was the last domino that fell that off season. The NCHC tells it a little differently claiming they rejected Notre Dame, and since most people around here don't care about the facts, I guess they get to say what they want. I'm sure I'm not the only one around here who has seen the initial private correspondences where Notre Dame is listed as one of the founding members of the NCHC. The NCHC's public "rejection" happened only after Notre Dame eventually decided to go elsewhere and the ink was already dry on their contract with Hockey East.

But I guess I'm still a moron, right Brenthoven?
 
Re: Why does playoff turnout everwhere seem so low?

People are scared of financial uncertainty. The last business I would EVER get into would be one that depends on the spending of discretionary dollars. It's one thing if everyone KNEW they were going to save that wonderful $2500 on their health care annually. But not only will THAT not happen, costs are likely to double or quadruple. So health-care costs come first, and that slams the doors on going out to dinner, going to hockey games like these, going to the movies, and most certainly jetting off to Orlando to go to Disneyworld where the daily cost for one person to pass through the turnstiles is $99. No wonder Disney bought ESPN with its guaranteed revenue stream from everyone's cable bill.

Discretionary spending is crashing at about the same fever that mandatory spending is skyrocketing. Things everyone NEEDS are costing more...way more. And after you get done shelling out cash for all those things you need, what you might 'want' evaporates. Ergo, empty arenas. And how you KNOW this is happening is when NFL games aren't selling out. There are more and more games with empty seats with each passing year, because along with the ticket price comes parking and food. And before you know it, you realize that your big-screen TV is a pretty good substitute. As I will this weekend, instead of going to Worcester. I **AM** going to be one of those empty seats at the DCU Centre. I don't begrudge anyone who WILL end up going, but don't you dare get on my case for NOT going.

As foreboding as what you say is, you are dead right, sir!
 
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