Why does playoff turnout everwhere seem so low?

[BCeagle]

Re: Why does playoff turnout everwhere seem so low?

It was a ludicrous idea to have Notre Dame join Hockey East in the first place. There is nothing remotely "east" about Notre Dame. EVERY team in Hockey East is in New England and is less than a five-hour ride from Boston (only because of Vermont and Maine) - all of the others are less than an hour (except for UMass which is only 70 miles). What did they expect they were going to get? 2000 ND fans? These people are delusional.

I liked the 3-game series each season but now it's only 2 games with so many teams. I liked that rubber match game. Never liked ND joining HE with the distances involved agree South Bend is no where close to NE. Makes more sense for PSU to join since it's closer but not really.

 

[Split-N]

Re: Why does playoff turnout everwhere seem so low?

I don't blame him. Like I said, why aren't they in a conference in the middle of the country? It's ridiculous. Oh...that's right. It's all about money. Well then they reap what they sow.

It's because there is no conference in the middle of the country not named B1G.

Actually, ND has it relatively easy compared to--

--Miami (NCHC), which has to travel to Minnesota, North Dakota, Nebraska, and Colorado, none of which were anywhere near southern Ohio last time I looked.
--Bowling Green (WCHA), which has to travel to Alabama, Alaska, and Minnesota, none of which were anywhere near northern Ohio last time I looked.

ND has the resources to fly charter directly from South Bend to (or at least close to) wherever they're playing (not sure about Orono). And since they're chartering, they get to bypass most of the TSA hassle, don't have to wait for delayed connecting flights, don't have infants in the next seat slobbering all over them, but do have luxury buses hauling them around at their destination. So cabin pressurization puts them at a competitive disadvantage? Give me a break!

I'm guessing Miami and BG fly (probably scheduled rather than charter) to the far outposts of their leagues but I'm guessing there are some long bus trips too. Maybe someone from Ohio can comment on this (and also how their guys handled cabin pressurization).

 

[The Rube]

Re: Why does playoff turnout everwhere seem so low?

When any questions like this come up, follow the dollar Simple as that.

 

[Red Cows]

Re: Why does playoff turnout everwhere seem so low?

Nothing against the B1G, but it will take half a generation for college hockey to recover from realignment, perhaps never fully doing so. It must suck for MN, ND(x2), etc. to have their main rivals now out of conference. Nothing against the Irish, but HockeyEast? Really? Indiana is in the east? This is a peeve of mine as are schools in coast conferences that are nowhere near coasts, in pacific conferences nowhere near any ocean let alone the pacific and conferences with numbers in their names where the number of schools in the conference is not equal to the number in the name.

What conference should ND have joined and don't get me started on the whole does the NCHA need to exist because I think it would have been nice to somehow keep the WCHA and CCHA.

As a UNO fan, and I think I speak for a lot of us here, we miss the CCHA.

When we joined the WCHA for the '10-'11 season, throwing out Minnesota State Mankato, who we have had an every season series going with until this season because of their proximity to us, and Bemidji State, who joined when we did, UNO had played a grand total of 30 games in the history of the program against all the other teams in the league combined. We had NEVER played North Dakota to that point. Minnesota, CC, & AA? All one time, EVER, each.

I laugh when I hear references to the NCHC being made up of 6 WCHA teams and 2 CCHA teams because UNO has far more in common with Miami and Western Michigan than they do with the other WCHA teams. UNO has still played more games against Western Michigan (30) and Miami (31) than they have against any former WCHA school in the NCHC. By a ton.

I bet if I asked you what one team has UNO played the most times in program history, by far, you'd be very hard pressed to come up with the correct answer (Alaska, 50 times!). They were UNO's travel partner every year we were in the CCHA so we played them every season at least 4 times.

Personally, I'd have rather stayed in the "new" WCHA, since UNO has vastly more history with those schools than they do their new brethren.

We've done a good job with starting some new rivalries (with UMD and North Dakota in particular) but, as you said, it is going to take some time before we get to the point that the mere mention of a team in our conference makes our blood boil. We are North Dakota's travel partner in the NCHC so we are the only team that gets them home and away every season and I think that one will end up being the real biggie for us as a result.

FWIW, I think Notre Dame should have joined the NCHC. They would have been joining 3 other teams they have extensive histories with, Miami, Western Michigan, and UNO.

 

[chickod]

Re: Why does playoff turnout everwhere seem so low?

ND has the resources to fly charter directly from South Bend to (or at least close to) wherever they're playing (not sure about Orono).

Yes....THEY do...but what about their fans? I know you will say that's the way it is in MOST parts of the country, but that's the point. That's what's unique about Hockey East. It's not a stretch to say that I could go to EVERY conference road game if I wanted to, and quite easily. And that's what sustains rivalries - GEOGRAPHIC proximity. My longest trip would be to Orono, Maine (about 5 hours). Burlinton, Vermont is next at 3 1/2 hours. ALL of the others are LESS THAN an hour and a half away from me.

Pitt in the <b>ATLANTIC</b> Coast Conference? Notre Dame in Hockey <b>EAST</b>? A couple of years ago Louisiana Tech in the <b>WESTERN</b> Athletic Conference? Do these people even care about the FANS? (rhetorical question, I know)...

 

[chickod]

Re: Why does playoff turnout everwhere seem so low?

FWIW, I think Notre Dame should have joined the NCHC. They would have been joining 3 other teams they have extensive histories with, Miami, Western Michigan, and UNO.

I agree!

 

[The Rube]

Re: Why does playoff turnout everwhere seem so low?

I agree!

You're a moron, then. Follow the dollar.

 

[claver2010]

Re: Why does playoff turnout everwhere seem so low?

Yes....THEY do...but what about their fans? I know you will say that's the way it is in MOST parts of the country, but that's the point. That's what's unique about Hockey East. It's not a stretch to say that I could go to EVERY conference road game if I wanted to, and quite easily. And that's what sustains rivalries - GEOGRAPHIC proximity. My longest trip would be to Orono, Maine (about 5 hours). Burlinton, Vermont is next at 3 1/2 hours. ALL of the others are LESS THAN an hour and a half away from me.

Pitt in the <b>ATLANTIC</b> Coast Conference? Notre Dame in Hockey <b>EAST</b>? A couple of years ago Louisiana Tech in the <b>WESTERN</b> Athletic Conference? Do these people even care about the FANS? (rhetorical question, I know)...

Of course the answer is no.

It's also a little different when ACC is pulling in $20 MM a year versus hockey.

Not only was ND ridiculous by itself, it also necessitated UConn. Looking forward to those games in a 1/5th filled XL center!

 

[aparch]

As a UNO fan, and I think I speak for a lot of us here, we miss the CCHA.

When we joined the WCHA for the '10-'11 season, throwing out Minnesota State Mankato, who we have had an every season series going with until this season because of their proximity to us, and Bemidji State, who joined when we did, UNO had played a grand total of 30 games in the history of the program against all the other teams in the league combined. We had NEVER played North Dakota to that point. Minnesota, CC, & AA? All one time, EVER, each.

I laugh when I hear references to the NCHC being made up of 6 WCHA teams and 2 CCHA teams because UNO has far more in common with Miami and Western Michigan than they do with the other WCHA teams. UNO has still played more games against Western Michigan (30) and Miami (31) than they have against any former WCHA school in the NCHC. By a ton.

I bet if I asked you what one team has UNO played the most times in program history, by far, you'd be very hard pressed to come up with the correct answer (Alaska, 50 times!). They were UNO's travel partner every year we were in the CCHA so we played them every season at least 4 times.

Personally, I'd have rather stayed in the "new" WCHA, since UNO has vastly more history with those schools than they do their new brethren.

We've done a good job with starting some new rivalries (with UMD and North Dakota in particular) but, as you said, it is going to take some time before we get to the point that the mere mention of a team in our conference makes our blood boil. We are North Dakota's travel partner in the NCHC so we are the only team that gets them home and away every season and I think that one will end up being the real biggie for us as a result.

FWIW, I think Notre Dame should have joined the NCHC. They would have been joining 3 other teams they have extensive histories with, Miami, Western Michigan, and UNO.

Western was in only added because Notre Dame said no to the NCHC. Western had an invitation from the WCHA, but started the Why Western campaign to whore themselves to the NCHC.

 

[aparch]

1. The "Netflix Effect." We have been quickly developing into a nation of slackers addicted to watching whatever it wants, whenever it wants to, and wherever it wants to. And if circumstances take you away from your ginormous big-screen TV, you can always catch what you're looking for on the tablet or smartphone (been to a bar or restaurant lately?) and that's before we ever get into time-shifting thru DVRs and the like. Attendance has been trending down for both hockey and hoops but seemed to accelerate this year as students/alums/casual fans asked themselves why they should trudge to the rink/gym in sub-zero weather when they could see the action in HD from their cozy dorm rooms/apartments/homes. What this portends for hockey and hoops in the future might make for an interesting off-season thread.

Smart teams/conferences find ways to monetize viewership. The WCHA sold streaming packages for all their conference games, and while revenue was kept private, it's been made public that the league was "pleasantly surprised" by the response.

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: Why does playoff turnout everwhere seem so low?

12,051 Hockey East
10,153 BiG10
8139 NCHC
4850 ECAC
3968 WCHA
1264 AHA

That's why all the hand-wringing over Notre Dame in Hockey East is misplaced, IMO. No, they're not likely to contribute much to ticket sales. But I don't think it matters. To the extent those numbers are still lower than usual . . . it's nothing that can't be cured by a resurgent BU or Maine. Whether either of them is up to it is fodder for another thread.

 

[Split-N]

Re: Why does playoff turnout everwhere seem so low?

Pitt in the <b>ATLANTIC</b> Coast Conference? Notre Dame in Hockey <b>EAST</b>? A couple of years ago Louisiana Tech in the <b>WESTERN</b> Athletic Conference? Do these people even care about the FANS?...

NO!!! See previous posts about the almighty dollar.

 

[wolverineTrumpet]

Re: Why does playoff turnout everwhere seem so low?

When comparing the Big Ten tournament to the old WCHA Final Five, as many fans have, number 4 is a gigantic factor. Minnesota, St. Cloud State, Minnesota State, Minnesota-Duluth, Bemidji State, North Dakota, Wisconsin, and Michigan Tech are all significantly closer to St. Paul than Michigan State, Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State. (Some local fans will recognize this, and expect the atmosphere to be inferior to what the Final Five had, which I suppose is related to number 3.) Next year, it will be in Detroit, and we'll see how the fans of former CCHA members decide to buy their tickets.

Next year, when the B1G tourney is in Detroit I will go. I will not worry about buying tickets ahead of time 'cause if I waste an hour driving to Detroit and can't get a ticket, I don't care. If I waste 10 hours driving to St. Paul I will care.

I've been spoiled in all my years as a hockey fan because the conference tournament was always just an hour away. Some of those years it was also just a Friday/Saturday thing so I didn't have to take time off work. And when it was the CCHA Super Six, I occassionaly would skip the Thursday games.

The all teams make it format of the B1G sucks because the tournament started on Thursday. For me, that means having to take 2 days off of work, spend money on a hotel room for 4 nights (I'd have to make part of the drive Wednesday night) and still possibly only see my team play 1 game. Worse yet, if my team loses, there is no underdog to cheer for in this conference. One could argue PSU, with their 2 years of D1 hockey, but it's still a huge school which for non-hockey reasons I don't want to cheer for. Where's my Alaska or Lake State that I can cheer for should my team fail? I don't even have enough hatred of any other B1G hockey team to actively cheer against any of them.

If you've been following a team all year, you've already seen your team play whoever they will play in the conference tournament. That's largely the reason that I've rarely attended conference tournaments.

Exactly, with the B1G conference, I've already seen every one of these teams play this season. I'm not spending huge $ to go see teams I don't care about that I've already seen. TV broadcast here I come.

 

[Split-N]

Re: Why does playoff turnout everwhere seem so low?

Smart teams/conferences find ways to monetize viewership. The WCHA sold streaming packages for all their conference games, and while revenue was kept private, it's been made public that the league was "pleasantly surprised" by the response.

Northeastern, Vermont, and others provide free HD streams, probably in an attempt to broaden the fan base. Whether or not this is a great marketing idea is up for debate. Both Northeastern (free stream) and New Hampshire (pay stream) had significant attendance declines this year. Sorry but I don't have the time to research any deeper than this. Maybe posters from other schools can add some substance.

 

[Jaws]

Re: Why does playoff turnout everwhere seem so low?

When you take the two biggest fan bases in the old WCHA and split them into 2 conference tourneys, this i what you get. Nobody should be surprised by the attendance numbers at the western tournaments.

 

[Hux]

Re: Why does playoff turnout everwhere seem so low?

It's because there is no conference in the middle of the country not named B1G.

Actually, ND has it relatively easy compared to--

--Miami (NCHC), which has to travel to Minnesota, North Dakota, Nebraska, and Colorado, none of which were anywhere near southern Ohio last time I looked.
--Bowling Green (WCHA), which has to travel to Alabama, Alaska, and Minnesota, none of which were anywhere near northern Ohio last time I looked.

ND has the resources to fly charter directly from South Bend to (or at least close to) wherever they're playing (not sure about Orono). And since they're chartering, they get to bypass most of the TSA hassle, don't have to wait for delayed connecting flights, don't have infants in the next seat slobbering all over them, but do have luxury buses hauling them around at their destination. So cabin pressurization puts them at a competitive disadvantage? Give me a break!

Well, let's take a look at just how convenient it is to fly & bus upon arrival in Hockey East land:

UVM to Burlington International ........................3.5 miles
UNH to Pease International ............................11.3 miles
Maine to Bangor International ........................12.5 miles
UConn (XL Center) to Bradley International ......16.2 miles
BC to Hanscom Field (Bedford) .......................17.7 miles
BU to Hanscom Field ....................................20.2 miles
UMass-Lowell to Hanscom Field .....................20.6 miles
Northeastern to Hanscom Field ....................21.7 miles
Merrimack to Hanscom Field .........................29.5 miles
UMass to Bradley International .....................46.9 miles

 

[Darius]

Re: Why does playoff turnout everwhere seem so low?

I think we understand the conference realignment reasoning - $$$. Y'all don't have to keep bringing that up.

I liked the 3-game series each season but now it's only 2 games with so many teams. I liked that rubber match game. Never liked ND joining HE with the distances involved agree South Bend is no where close to NE. Makes more sense for PSU to join since it's closer but not really.

I really missed the 3 game series this year as well. Not saying UNH would have beat BC or UML later in the year after losing to them twice early, but it would have been fun to try. Another suck factor is the 2 game road series. UNH played 2 at Merrimack, none vs. Merrimack at home. Merrimack is < 1 hour drive from Durham. Huh? Also, I used to really look forward to hosting OOC games. MI, North Dakota, etc. Last fall I was looking forward to seeing Union and UNO. Nothing against them, but by the time they came to Durham, I was done with OOC teams. Finally, I am not a fan of the all teams qualify, some with byes, single elimination playoff format either.

FWIW, I think Notre Dame should have joined the NCHC. They would have been joining 3 other teams they have extensive histories with, Miami, Western Michigan, and UNO.

I wonder what Notre Dame's HEA exit clause is. Who knows, but in a few years if things don't turn out as expected and they decide to bolt, I suspect Bertagna negotiated a sweet windfall for HEA.

 

[UMLFan]

Re: Why does playoff turnout everwhere seem so low?

According to last night's announcers, he's not using it as an excuse, but Jeff Jackson isn't all that thrilled with the Boston plane rides.

Just wondering ... did he not know where HE teams were located?

 

[Darius]

Re: Why does playoff turnout everwhere seem so low?

Just wondering ... did he not know where HE teams were located?

I think he was saying that the year was full of adjustments and towards the end of the year the travel every other week, travel 2 weeks in a row scenario got old. It will get better. Clearly they are able to make the best of travel logistics, but after a while even charter flights and luxury busses get old. You miss your own bed. Who knows, maybe HEA wasn't Jackson's choice, but the ND administration thought it was the place to be.

BTW someone referenced oWCHA, CCHA fans boycotting the B1G. Love it!

 

[UMLFan]

Re: Why does playoff turnout everwhere seem so low?

I think he was saying that the year was full of adjustments and towards the end of the year the travel every other week, travel 2 weeks in a row scenario got old. It will get better. Clearly they are able to make the best of travel logistics, but after a while even charter flights and luxury busses get old. You miss your own bed. Who knows, maybe HEA wasn't Jackson's choice, but the ND administration thought it was the place to be.

I suppose that makes sense. But as someone who used to fly for work all the time, you get used to it. It was my job, no point in complaining about it (if that's what he was doing). I just think that when you travel, you know that there's a chance of flight delays, or cancellations. Hell, if they're flying charter, that's even easier than having to go through what regular passengers do at the airport.