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Why do we have Goal Judges?
- Thread starter WildShawn
- Start date
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: Why do we have Goal Judges?
I think that game is the only time I've heard both bands play Three Blind Mice in the same game.
The goal judge is there to turn on the red light so that the fans will know when it's time to cheer.
More seriously, I can recall an incident some years back when a goal judge turned on the red light, but the referee signaled "no goal." After making his signal, the referee went behind the net and consulted with the goal judge, then skated back out in front and once again, emphatically signaled "no goal."
There was an NCAA rule prohibiting the media from talking to the on-ice officials after the game, but the rule did not prohibit talking to any off-ice official. After the final buzzer, a newspaper reporter went to the goal judge and asked what he had said to the referee. Had he told him he wasn't sure about his decision to light the red lamp?
The goal judge said no, that wasn't the case at all. He had told the referee that he had seen the play clearly, the puck had gone completely across the line, and the goal should count.
The goal judge said he had no idea why the referee had bothered to consult him when the ref so obviously didn't care to listen to what he had to say.
I think that game is the only time I've heard both bands play Three Blind Mice in the same game.
Re: Why do we have Goal Judges?
You put Anderson and Shephard back there and there will be a lot of 0-0 ties in the WCHA and Shots at Goal Judge will become a new stat.
You put Anderson and Shephard back there and there will be a lot of 0-0 ties in the WCHA and Shots at Goal Judge will become a new stat.
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Third Family Member
Registered User
Re: Why do we have Goal Judges?
Hmmm. Technology being what it is today, why can't we just put a little microchip in the puck that will set off the goal light when it completely crosses a little microchipped goal line??? And then we could eliminate goal judges, as long as the microchips could also turn on the goal light so the fans would know when the puck crossed the line. And after that, we will figure out a way to coat all the players and sticks with electronically charged saran wrap, so when someone gets cross checked or slashed or tripped, it sets off alarm bells, and a penalty could be assessed. And then we could do away with referees. So far, I haven't figured out how to get rid of the linesmen for icing, though we could put infrared lines across the ice to deal with offsides.
Okay, that was all sarcasm. After this weekend, when our nifty new digital sound board took a dump during sound check and we had to rely on the old fashioned sound board, I think I am qualified to answer that question. Technology can find ways to fail, and you need a backup system. And even 800 year old guys who sit in a goal judge chair are a better back up system then absolutely nothing. Rome, NY is obviously glad for back up systems that are old and creaky.
Hmmm. Technology being what it is today, why can't we just put a little microchip in the puck that will set off the goal light when it completely crosses a little microchipped goal line??? And then we could eliminate goal judges, as long as the microchips could also turn on the goal light so the fans would know when the puck crossed the line. And after that, we will figure out a way to coat all the players and sticks with electronically charged saran wrap, so when someone gets cross checked or slashed or tripped, it sets off alarm bells, and a penalty could be assessed. And then we could do away with referees. So far, I haven't figured out how to get rid of the linesmen for icing, though we could put infrared lines across the ice to deal with offsides.
Okay, that was all sarcasm. After this weekend, when our nifty new digital sound board took a dump during sound check and we had to rely on the old fashioned sound board, I think I am qualified to answer that question. Technology can find ways to fail, and you need a backup system. And even 800 year old guys who sit in a goal judge chair are a better back up system then absolutely nothing. Rome, NY is obviously glad for back up systems that are old and creaky.
Re: Why do we have Goal Judges?
A back up system for what? Their being there does absolutly nothing. When a goal judge sees a puck clearly go in the net, and neither of the refs see it and because of the angle of the overhead camera and the position of the goaltender's glove, the cameras don't pick it up (even though its a foot over the line), what are they backing up?
(And fwiw, the goal judges at this arena range in age from 20s to 60s)
A back up system for what? Their being there does absolutly nothing. When a goal judge sees a puck clearly go in the net, and neither of the refs see it and because of the angle of the overhead camera and the position of the goaltender's glove, the cameras don't pick it up (even though its a foot over the line), what are they backing up?
(And fwiw, the goal judges at this arena range in age from 20s to 60s)
Re: Why do we have Goal Judges?
That actually wouldn't be to expensive to implement. The biggest cost with that will probably be in terms of convincing puck manufacturers to put the microchips in the pucks. With a few sensors in the net say at all the corners and the middle of the post they would be able to triangulate the puck with enough accuracy to determine a goal and the time the puck crossed the net. It probably will happen at some point at all major levels with next 15-20 years. Starting at the NHL and filtering its way down to NCAA D1, Major Juniors, and Minn HS hockey.
That actually wouldn't be to expensive to implement. The biggest cost with that will probably be in terms of convincing puck manufacturers to put the microchips in the pucks. With a few sensors in the net say at all the corners and the middle of the post they would be able to triangulate the puck with enough accuracy to determine a goal and the time the puck crossed the net. It probably will happen at some point at all major levels with next 15-20 years. Starting at the NHL and filtering its way down to NCAA D1, Major Juniors, and Minn HS hockey.
Skeeterman
Bob is making me nervous
We have goal judges for the same reason we have 4 refs--jobs for friends and family members of conference officials. In the case of the WCHA- the head of officials has 2 sons reffing. They had remarkably fast tracks to reffing the bigger games. Whatever.
du78
Gunning For 10
Re: Why do we have Goal Judges?
What you are describing isn't a problem with having a goal judge, but a failure on the part of the ref to confer with the goal judge. Before you gave your example, I could remember an overhead view in a college game that was blocked by the goalie so thought that justified the goal judge. I have seen HS refs confer with goal judges, but can't remember a time in the last 10 years where I've seen it happen in a college game. (I do remember it happing longer ago than that, I think.) But the light going on for the fans idea is another good reason. I was at a HS game this year when a team tied the game at the buzzer, and we knew immediately it was in on time, because the goal light was on (And they won't go on once the time is up). So i would say they are usefull, and maybe refs need to be reminded to talk to them when things are inconclusive. (Now that I think about it, I have seen a ref look up at a goal judge light before signaling a goal in a college game, so even though words weren't exchanged, the ref clearly appeared to use the goal judge call as confirmation of what he thought he saw.)
What you are describing isn't a problem with having a goal judge, but a failure on the part of the ref to confer with the goal judge. Before you gave your example, I could remember an overhead view in a college game that was blocked by the goalie so thought that justified the goal judge. I have seen HS refs confer with goal judges, but can't remember a time in the last 10 years where I've seen it happen in a college game. (I do remember it happing longer ago than that, I think.) But the light going on for the fans idea is another good reason. I was at a HS game this year when a team tied the game at the buzzer, and we knew immediately it was in on time, because the goal light was on (And they won't go on once the time is up). So i would say they are usefull, and maybe refs need to be reminded to talk to them when things are inconclusive. (Now that I think about it, I have seen a ref look up at a goal judge light before signaling a goal in a college game, so even though words weren't exchanged, the ref clearly appeared to use the goal judge call as confirmation of what he thought he saw.)
DU GOAL
People love bells and whistles.
Erix_The_Red
is filling his stein.
Re: Why do we have Goal Judges?
Hell I remember a demo of similar tech that instead put a yellow tail behind the puck when viewing on TV. Icing wouldn't be difficult to detect either. Throw chips on every players blade and offsides would be a breeze.
Hell I remember a demo of similar tech that instead put a yellow tail behind the puck when viewing on TV. Icing wouldn't be difficult to detect either. Throw chips on every players blade and offsides would be a breeze.
Re: Why do we have Goal Judges?
Oh lord, the "FoxTrax" glowing puck, with the comet tail that changed color as the speed increased. Extremely annoying.
Re: Why do we have Goal Judges?
Yep, goal judges, time keepers, and penalty box handlers make out financially. Some even get free parking, a ticket or two and maybe even a slice of pizza! WOW!!!
Yep, goal judges, time keepers, and penalty box handlers make out financially. Some even get free parking, a ticket or two and maybe even a slice of pizza! WOW!!!
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: Why do we have Goal Judges?
I would think the league would reimburse costs for these officials given their mandate, but you're right in that it's usually the same people at each site that do the job.
BTW, regarding your location, I thought according to MTU's band, in heaven there are no refs...
I would think the league would reimburse costs for these officials given their mandate, but you're right in that it's usually the same people at each site that do the job.
BTW, regarding your location, I thought according to MTU's band, in heaven there are no refs...
Russell Jaslow
Registered User
Re: Why do we have Goal Judges?
They use actual referees in the playoffs. Same in Division III.
It is kind of odd that an important position is filled by the local help. This is probably why most refs don't bother conferring with goal judges. I know some are very honest, but when dealing with the ones filled with students on work study porgrams, you have to wonder.
Last year, while covering a game in Geneseo, there was a close call where Potsdam appeared to have scored, but the refs waved it off. The refs actually did confer with the goal judge and kept the call as is. Later, while watching the team's video, it clearly went in just under the crossbar (but I can understand how difficult the call was to make in real time). What was also evident was the Geneseo student goal judge was clearly talking on his cell phone when the play occurred!
They use actual referees in the playoffs. Same in Division III.
It is kind of odd that an important position is filled by the local help. This is probably why most refs don't bother conferring with goal judges. I know some are very honest, but when dealing with the ones filled with students on work study porgrams, you have to wonder.
Last year, while covering a game in Geneseo, there was a close call where Potsdam appeared to have scored, but the refs waved it off. The refs actually did confer with the goal judge and kept the call as is. Later, while watching the team's video, it clearly went in just under the crossbar (but I can understand how difficult the call was to make in real time). What was also evident was the Geneseo student goal judge was clearly talking on his cell phone when the play occurred!
Russell Jaslow
Registered User
unhpuckfan2001
Local Fire Extinguisher
Re: Why do we have Goal Judges?
WildShawn:
Goal judges are to say to me, after the game, "I don't know. I don't want to talk about it."
I hear your pain, my man . . . it was CLEARLY a goal, but Federico was out of position.
WildShawn:
Goal judges are to say to me, after the game, "I don't know. I don't want to talk about it."
I hear your pain, my man . . . it was CLEARLY a goal, but Federico was out of position.