Who's Next for a Move Down from D1, or Drop Hockey Altogether?

[Sol Diablo]

And the AIC announcement starts this thread......
https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2024/11/12_AIC-Dropping-Program-Back.php

 

[beaverhockeyfan]

Could this start a chain reaction that would lead to the rebirth of D-II hockey? I mean, there is going to be a growing divide between the haves and the have nots once all the possible NIL dollars and the scholarship split (18 vs 24) get sorted out.

 

[ecachawkeyfan]

I worry about a school like Union long-term. It's a small, D3 school that's only D1 in hockey. The new facility should help some and they can offer scholarships now, but I just see smaller schools like that at risk in the long-run. That's not a good thing for college hockey. I could see Union back in D3 long-term.

 

[Drew S.]

The three schools in the northeast I’m interested in are Bentley, UVM, and UConn. Bentley is in the same situation athletically as AIC but they do have a new rink and I believe are in a better financial position. UVM and UConn are both great basketball schools that have struggled in hockey. They’re also the two newest schools in hockey east so it might be a little easier decision than it would be for the other hockey east teams.

 

[RaceBoarder]

Lake State is one to keep an eye on as well. They are one of the smallest athletic departments to field a D-1 hockey team, and the school as a whole is facing some serious attendance issues (around 2,000 for enrollment overall) that has been trending downward for a while now.

 

[QUAlum2004]

AIC situation is a lot different from everyone else in that the university may not even survive in the future.

 

[lakersparty]

Lake State is one to keep an eye on as well. They are one of the smallest athletic departments to field a D-1 hockey team, and the school as a whole is facing some serious attendance issues (around 2,000 for enrollment overall) that has been trending downward for a while now.

Lake State's problem isn't hockey or a small athletic department. Funding is there. They wouldn't have recently upgraded the video board, lighting, and some cosmetics if there was no money. No, they don't have buckets of money to throw around, but the athletic department is being properly managed and the men's basketball team doing better also is helping.

It's been school viability. There are sometimes rumors floating around that LSSU is seeking affiliation with a larger school, but that could just be small town gossip. I actually think LSSU is in a little better shape than the worst times, though. I think they survived the actual bottom. The school added back an MBA program recently, which is a positive sign since they haven't had Master's level courses in awhile.

 

[Snively65]

The three schools in the northeast I’m interested in are Bentley, UVM, and UConn. Bentley is in the same situation athletically as AIC but they do have a new rink and I believe are in a better financial position. UVM and UConn are both great basketball schools that have struggled in hockey. They’re also the two newest schools in hockey east so it might be a little easier decision than it would be for the other hockey east teams.

That other six Div 2 hockey teams in the Northeast are Assumption, Franklin Pierce, St. Anselm’s, St. Michael’s, and SNHU (all Div 2 in other sports and part of the NE10 conference), and Post, which is in the CACC. At least adding AIC to the Northeast Div 2 conference will make up for the loss of Stonehill, which surprisingly to me went Div 1 after the 2022.2023 season. I think that you are correct about Bentley being in a better financial position than AIC, and many other schools, too. After all, Bentley’s Board is composed of a lot successful business alums, who were instrumental in getting a very nice rink built on campus. Do not let anyone hoodwink you into thinking that the admin built the rink on campus under pressure from today’s students, who make up a small percentage of attendees at games other than when HEA teams come to play in Waltham.

 

[MichVandal]

Lake State's problem isn't hockey or a small athletic department. Funding is there. They wouldn't have recently upgraded the video board, lighting, and some cosmetics if there was no money. No, they don't have buckets of money to throw around, but the athletic department is being properly managed and the men's basketball team doing better also is helping.

It's been school viability. There are sometimes rumors floating around that LSSU is seeking affiliation with a larger school, but that could just be small town gossip. I actually think LSSU is in a little better shape than the worst times, though. I think they survived the actual bottom. The school added back an MBA program recently, which is a positive sign since they haven't had Master's level courses in awhile.

My dad used to refer to Lake State as Soo Tech- was there a previous tie to Mich Tech?

 

[lakersparty]

My dad used to refer to Lake State as Soo Tech- was there a previous tie to Mich Tech?

Yep. It was a branch of Michigan Tech until the early 1970s I believe. It seemed like a good move getting autonomy from Tech with the Soo growing. Somewhere along the line the Soo stopped growing and experienced decline actually. So there are 3 universities in the Upper Peninsula and there probably shouldn't be as much as I hate to say it since I think LSSU is probably the one that shouldn't exist in today's world.

So people float getting affiliation again, but I doubt it would be with Tech. They dream about the downstate schools but I don't see how it makes sense for any of them.

They think they can get more people back to Lake State with attracting students from Ontario again, which the pandemic made basically not a possibility with the border closed. So that really hurt.

Something really outside the box if the state of Michigan doesn't see a viable path for it as a public university is it becoming a tribal college with it being right there by the Sault Tribe and the Bay Mills Tribe, but that's another conversation and probably a stretch too.

 

[Split-N]

I believe the fears being expressed about hockey being dropped at certain schools are well founded. Let's not forget that the House settlement is not just about making the rich big schools richer and bigger, it's about making the football and hoops programs at the rich big schools richer and bigger. I do think that the existing hockey programs at the B1G are probably safe (but not certain), and expansion is likely out of the question. And smaller schools, especially those that have football, could well axe hockey if that's what it would take to keep football and basketball alive.

 

[lakersparty]

I believe the fears being expressed about hockey being dropped at certain schools are well founded. Let's not forget that the House settlement is not just about making the rich big schools richer and bigger, it's about making the football and hoops programs at the rich big schools bigger and richer. I do think that the existing hockey programs at the B1G are probably safe but not certain, and expansion is likely out of the question. And smaller schools, especially those that have football, could well axe hockey to keep football and basketball alive.

Won't major college football basically break away from the current structure? That's the SEC and Big Ten football schools and maybe a few more schools from the ACC as it collapses, which I think it will. For football we'll see the ACC get raided and the Big 12 will be seen as inferior. That will impact Arizona State (Big 12) and Boston College (ACC). Now I highly doubt BC with their history would drop hockey, but their overall athletic financials take a hit when the ACC collapses and the B1G and SEC aren't inviting BC into their conferences. ASU, despite their recent commitments, doesn't have the history with hockey. If ASU is shut out of the top level in football when the B1G/SEC break away, they will probably have to make some athletic department choices.

The B1G has helped subsidize the MAC for awhile in football with paying them a lot to come to their football stadiums for home games. Will the new B1G want to schedule the MAC any more or will TV dictate they play bigger schools? That could very well hurt Bowling Green, Miami, and Western Michigan who won't see the same amount of revenue if the B1G is playing the SEC in the non-conference instead.

So to me, the schools I most wonder about are Arizona State, Bowling Green, Miami, and Western Michigan. I feel like they are the ones most impacted by the winds of change in college sports.

The current little schools have always been little and faced dilemmas and challenges throughout time. They are used to it. But a faucet of money is about to be turned off for the schools I mentioned.

 

[lakersparty]

I also want to throw St. Thomas into the mix. They aren't next to drop hockey, but I don't think they exist 15-20 years from now. They will be a doormat in their new conference and they don't have enough fans to weather the storm. I remember a few teams trying to join the CCHA when it was dominant back in the day thinking they had good markets, like UIC, and they never won anything so they ended up dropping out. That's St. Thomas to me with visions of grandeur that won't actually happen.

 

[amkirby10]

I would be sad to see any more schools in addition to AIC drop hockey, as seeing the sport get smaller is never a good thing. But in particular, I would really hate to see schools that have previously won a national championship drop the sport altogether. For mentions in this thread that means Lake Superior, Union, and Bowling Green, and other small schools that have previously won titles like RPI naturally come to mind, at least for me, with the caveat that I don't know every school's exact circumstances. Seeing schools and programs that have previously ascended to the throne eventually bowing out altogether would be a real shame in my opinion.

 

[beaverhockeyfan]

I also want to throw St. Thomas into the mix. They aren't next to drop hockey, but I don't think they exist 15-20 years from now. They will be a doormat in their new conference and they don't have enough fans to weather the storm. I remember a few teams trying to join the CCHA when it was dominant back in the day thinking they had good markets, like UIC, and they never won anything so they ended up dropping out. That's St. Thomas to me with visions of grandeur that won't actually happen.

There are some very deep pockets among St. Thomas alums. I think they will be okay once their new arena is built. Plus, being in the Twin Cities, if they can develop and keep a decent enough program, they will draw casual fans as long as they don't price themselves out of the market. And with moving to the NCHC, a lot of those schools have alums in the Twin Cities, so that will help sell tickets as well.

Plus, St. Thomas football plays in the non-scholarship Pioneer League, so that helps keep the athletics budget in check. Hockey could become the sport they try to hang their hat on.

 

[Sol Diablo]

AIC situation is a lot different from everyone else in that the university may not even survive in the future.

That would suk for the alumni

 

[lakersparty]

There are some very deep pockets among St. Thomas alums. I think they will be okay once their new arena is built. Plus, being in the Twin Cities, if they can develop and keep a decent enough program, they will draw casual fans as long as they don't price themselves out of the market. And with moving to the NCHC, a lot of those schools have alums in the Twin Cities, so that will help sell tickets as well.

Plus, St. Thomas football plays in the non-scholarship Pioneer League, so that helps keep the athletics budget in check. Hockey could become the sport they try to hang their hat on.

Money doesn't guarantee success. Just look at the Big Ten's national championship drought. It's kind of crazy that Minnesota, Michigan, Michigan State, and Wisconsin aren't winning national championships any more with the resources they have. The last national championship of those four is still 2007 when MSU won. That's a long-time for four wealthy and hockey-loving schools.

But back to St. Thomas. I'm just not impressed with them. They've already burned bridges in the small college hockey world in just a short amount of time. I've seen no indication they have any sort of fan base. And it looks to me like they are building a basketball arena that a hockey team will play in.

 

[Sk8save!]

The Stonehill D1 experiment is not going to last long. No conference, no facility, no attendance, brutal travel schedule. Thy would be best served with the other D2 schools.

 

[Julius]

Thy would be best served with the other D2 schools.

Big difference with AIC is that the whole athletic program for Stonehill is now D-I, unlike AIC, which is still D-II. So it's either a D-I team or fold the team.

 

[Sol Diablo]

Won't major college football basically break away from the current structure? That's the SEC and Big Ten football schools and maybe a few more schools from the ACC as it collapses, which I think it will. For football we'll see the ACC get raided and the Big 12 will be seen as inferior. That will impact Arizona State (Big 12) and Boston College (ACC). Now I highly doubt BC with their history would drop hockey, but their overall athletic financials take a hit when the ACC collapses and the B1G and SEC aren't inviting BC into their conferences. ASU, despite their recent commitments, doesn't have the history with hockey. If ASU is shut out of the top level in football when the B1G/SEC break away, they will probably have to make some athletic department choices.

So to me, the schools I most wonder about are Arizona State, Bowling Green, Miami, and Western Michigan. I feel like they are the ones most impacted by the winds of change in college sports.

I think you are correct about the college football structure changing but there could be at least two other outcomes.

One is that the B1G & SEC raid the big sports media market schools. That helps ASU & BC being they are in 2 of the top 3 markets not currently captured by either conference.

Another, less likely (follow the money) outcome, is that the whole structure changes into a tier system like pro soccer or F1 racing, teams move up and down into different tiers per win/loss. Hard to say how that could affect hockey.

​​​Although ASU doesn't have hockey history to support it, it does have a helpful demographic - snowbirds, showing up at at the Tempe games when their teams play. H E double hockey sticks, half of Minnesota & NoDak is in AZ in the winter along with lots of people from Michigan, Ohio, Whisky, Indiana, Nebraska, Colorado, Alaska, even some from New England.......