Who will be the NC$$ Champ?

[pgb-ohio]

Re: Who will be the NC$$ Champ?

vic,

I enjoyed your full post! May have some more to add later. For now, a couple of quick takes...

...Walker Arena what a place to watch a game as Joe said. You had to stand in line for an hour or so outside the arena in the bitter cold and snow if you wanted your choice of seating. And then when you got in the place you froze your arse off until the arena filled up and the over head heaters (the few there were along the sides) came on. I remember one game I was sitting behind the Clarkson bench. From your shoulders up you were above the glass behind the bench. One of the players was ****ed off at something that happened on the ice and he came in and slammed the shaft of his stick against the glass where I was standing and I caught the butt end of his stick just below my eye. Had a shiner there for a few days.

It was certainly a different time. Pretty sure today's coaches & players are under much stricter orders not to have such "interactions" with the crowd!

... I also every few years have tried to make a road trip to see the men or women. You mentioned that Clarkson men played at Ohio State one year. My wife and I were there for that series. Played at I think the Schottenstein Center. Way too big for the crowd that was there. Mike Walsh was the goalie for Clarkson. I remember one of the Buckeye skaters brushed by Walsh and he went down like the kid shot him. The Buckeye skater was called for the penalty. After the game talking to Mike when asked about the play he just winked his eye.

Also a fine series. But the one I mentioned came at an earlier point in time. Todd White's Golden Knights were pre-1999, and thus played at the OSU Ice Rink.

Of course you're right about the Schott. That was probably before they curtained off the upper deck, which has made things a little better. It's still an issue, however.

 

[joecct]

Re: Who will be the NC$$ Champ?

1991 #4 East Clarkson at #1 West (&#1 overall) Lake State NCAA QF. Please forgive the misspellings.

https://people.clarkson.edu/~cupband/history.html#four

 

[vicb]

Re: Who will be the NC$$ Champ?

........
OK, tell me all about Sergi's Pizza. I missed out on that because the rest of the family insisted on the Gluten-Free Bakery, by the Bookstore.

.......

Sergi's has been around forever. Your typical family pizza and spaghetti place.

Downtown Potsdam and Clarkson today are way different than in the 70's. In the 70's the hill campus had the dorms and you went to class by walking or driving across the Racquette River to the classrooms just off to the side of the main down town area. More bars than anything else down town. On the weekends you go downtown to drink, listen to Double Axle (I wonder if that band is still playing there), dance with the girls from Potsdam State to "Stairway to Heaven" , play pool and sometimes get into fights with a rival fraternity. I remember one time I was downtown in a bar with a few of my fraternity brothers. Really crowded. Some guy comes in who was drunk as a skunk with a few guys and he is carrying a metal ball on a chain. He was obviously having one hell of a bachelor party. As I said it was crowded, the guy bumps into and said something to one of my brothers girlfriend, my brother said something to him and of coarse the kid hits my brother in the head with the ball. All hell breaks loose with all of us wanting to kill the kid. Somehow they get the kid out of the bar, I'm not even sure how and my brother ends up in the ER with a concussion.

Now classes are up on the hill with the dorms. Very few bars downtown.

 

[FireKnight]

Re: Who will be the NC$$ Champ?

Sergi's has been around forever. Your typical family pizza and spaghetti place.

Downtown Potsdam and Clarkson today are way different than in the 70's. In the 70's the hill campus had the dorms and you went to class by walking or driving across the Racquette River to the classrooms just off to the side of the main down town area. More bars than anything else down town. On the weekends you go downtown to drink, listen to Double Axle (I wonder if that band is still playing there), dance with the girls from Potsdam State to "Stairway to Heaven" , play pool and sometimes get into fights with a rival fraternity. I remember one time I was downtown in a bar with a few of my fraternity brothers. Really crowded. Some guy comes in who was drunk as a skunk with a few guys and he is carrying a metal ball on a chain. He was obviously having one hell of a bachelor party. As I said it was crowded, the guy bumps into and said something to one of my brothers girlfriend, my brother said something to him and of coarse the kid hits my brother in the head with the ball. All hell breaks loose with all of us wanting to kill the kid. Somehow they get the kid out of the bar, I'm not even sure how and my brother ends up in the ER with a concussion.

Now classes are up on the hill with the dorms. Very few bars downtown.

All these years I've known you, you never told me you were in a fraternity. I hope you weren't fighting with my brothers.

 

[FireKnight]

Re: Who will be the NC$$ Champ?

Since we're suddenly in the off-season for Women's Hockey, how about a story or two from your days on campus? I've been to Potsdam once, but I'll but many on the board have never made it.

You could tell us what the rink is like, your favorite game, best place for a post-game pizza or beverage, and so on. With the 2018 title, Clarkson has a moment in the limelight. Educate & Entertain Us!

To get the puck moving, I've got a Clarkson memory from a couple of decades ago. The Clarkson Men's Hockey team played a series here in Columbus. The best of the Golden Knights was a player by the name of Todd White. Had a chance to briefly chat with Todd after one of the games. Great player, even better person. I've had a positive impression of Clarkson ever since.

Dishing the puck off to vicb...

Todd White was a great ambassador for Clarkson hockey and the epitome of student athlete. He was a bit behind me in school, but because I adopted a double major, I actually ended up in a project group with him in my senior year. He was smart, never skirted out on anything because he was playing or on a road trip, etc. He used the bus trips as times to study and get work done.

As far as the Clarkson experience goes, my brethren here have explained a lot about the Walker Arena, the awesome former home of our Golden Knights. I first visited Potsdam in 1991 and while on campus, I got to see the opening of Cheel Arena and a Clarkson win over Boston College. Cheel is a beautiful arena and can be very loud, although it's very stale like most new arenas; definitely not Walker's aura and mystique. It's a well designed arena, allowing everyone to be close and there isn't a bad spot in the house to see a game. In it's heyday, we'd pack in 3400 or 3500 every night. After playing in the pep band for a couple of years, I was forced to leave, mainly because I was working 3 jobs to get enough money to pay my expenses. I also was a member of the Potsdam Rescue Squad, a source of another of my fond memories of Cheel (although rather graphic). In 1995, Clarkson and SLU had a quarterfinal playoff series at Cheel. Craig Conroy made a big hit on one of the SLU players, causing a compound fracture to his leg. We had to get the kid off the ice and bring him to the hospital.

My fondest memories of Clarkson hockey and what I think makes it different from a lot of the big schools is how close the campus is as a group. The guys who played hockey when I was there were top level players, in some of the most successful seasons in their history. However, they didn't really walk around like big men on campus. They'd talk with you, hang out with you, and remember your name. They'd sit down and have a beer with you at the bar (if of age and out of season, of course). To this day, I'll run into guys that played during my time there and they'll remember me by name and have a conversation. That small town atmosphere is what attracted me to Clarkson and what keeps me going back there over 20 years after graduation.

 

[vicb]

Re: Who will be the NC$$ Champ?

My final salute to the 2018 Frozen Four.

A Salute to the 2018 Women’s Frozen Four

It was a Friday in Minneapolis
To the Ridder Arena they came
Four teams on a mission
Only one would win their last game

Clarkson was number one
The Ohio State stood in their way
A goaltending dual was played
By Tiley and Sauve

A Buckeye goal in Regulation
A laser shot by Jincy Dunn
But the referee called a penalty
The Buckeyes did not lead by one

Back and forth into overtime
Who would be the hero
Pejzlova to Giguere to Gable
Clarkson wins by one to zero

Wisconsin was the number two seed
A victory would make their fans dance
Colgate was number three
They did not stand a chance

But Colgate was on a mission
On Sunday they wanted to play
And meet the Champions Clarkson
For an all ECAC day

The goals went back and forth
Regulation ended three to three
In OT Wilson-Bennett scored
Colgate wins, whoopeeeeeeeeeeeee

Sunday in Minnesota they met
An NCAA title on the line
For Clarkson number three
Colgate their first would be fine

The first goal was scored by Vinkle
And Clarkson was in the lead
But Schneider tied it in the second
Zafuto with a beautiful feed.

One to one was the score
Another goaltending dual being played
Vandyk and Tiley were on
The goal scorers were dismayed

To overtime they battled
Who would score the next one
Elizabeth Giguere of Clarkson
Goal number two and Colgate was done

To Colgate, Wisconsin and The Ohio State
I salute your dedication and play
And to the coaches of these fine women
A championship may come some day

To my Golden Knights I have followed
Since the beginning in 2004
Thank you Thank you Thank you
Each year you make my spirits soar.

Matt, Britini and Tony
You are the coaching staff supreme
And the women of Clarkson hockey
You are the meaning of the word team

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: Who will be the NC$$ Champ?

Thanks for all the great replies from the Clarkson posters. Good to get to know you better. Hope we can meet on the ice again soon.

Busy day today; will check back tonight...

 

[MAHOCKEY FAN]

Re: Who will be the NC$$ Champ?

Clarkson grad as well here. (late 80's). More details on the bell at Walker arena over the entrance to the ice for the visiting team (I think it was the TEK fraternity that was in charge of ringing that thing). at the start and end of each period that thing would br rung right over them as the entered/exited the ice...From my visits...i see the bell made it to cheel, but sadly it does not get rung. I agree that the players were one of us back then. They were in the dorms with us and in the same classes.

 

[rochnycsc]

Re: Who will be the NC$$ Champ?

My Best (and worst) Walker Arena memory is the 1981 NCAA Quarterfinals against Wisconsin. Clarkson College of Technology (CCT) the ECAC regular season champion was the #1 seed in the East and was arguably the #1 ranked team in the country with a 26–6–3 record. This was back when only 8 teams made the tourney and the quarterfinals were a 2 game aggregate series at the higher seeds rink, with the winners going to the semifinals in Duluth.
CCT who hadn't made the NCAA's since 1970 was #1 in the East played #4 in the west Wisconsin, who received an at-large bid for finishing tied for second in the WCHA.
CCT could score in bunches and thought they had finally found a reliable goalie in freshman Don Sylvestri. But some cracks had shown in their ECAC tourney loss to Providence.
In game 1 Walker arena was packed to the rafters & Clarkson pummeled the Wisconsin net, but goaltender Marc Behrend stood on his head and UW won game1 3-2, shocking the Golden Knights.
Game 2 was a classic, Wisconsin constantly answering every Clarkson goal and Behrend making key saves in the end to preserve a 6-6 tie, giving UW a 9-8 aggregate win.
Wisconsin ended up easily beating Michigan Tech and then Minnesota in the final to take the title. Marc Behrend was the tourney MOP.

 

[vicb]

Re: Who will be the NC$$ Champ?

My Best (and worst) Walker Arena memory is the 1981 NCAA Quarterfinals against Wisconsin. Clarkson College of Technology (CCT) the ECAC regular season champion was the #1 seed in the East and was arguably the #1 ranked team in the country with a 26–6–3 record. This was back when only 8 teams made the tourney and the quarterfinals were a 2 game aggregate series at the higher seeds rink, with the winners going to the semifinals in Duluth.
CCT who hadn't made the NCAA's since 1970 was #1 in the East played #4 in the west Wisconsin, who received an at-large bid for finishing tied for second in the WCHA.
CCT could score in bunches and thought they had finally found a reliable goalie in freshman Don Sylvestri. But some cracks had shown in their ECAC tourney loss to Providence.
In game 1 Walker arena was packed to the rafters & Clarkson pummeled the Wisconsin net, but goaltender Marc Behrend stood on his head and UW won game1 3-2, shocking the Golden Knights.
Game 2 was a classic, Wisconsin constantly answering every Clarkson goal and Behrend making key saves in the end to preserve a 6-6 tie, giving UW a 9-8 aggregate win.
Wisconsin ended up easily beating Michigan Tech and then Minnesota in the final to take the title. Marc Behrend was the tourney MOP.

I remember that series. Was talking with a buddy of mine who followed college hockey before that series. His comment to me was that Wisconsin deserved a higher seed in the West and that the National Championship would be decided by the winner of this series. He was spot on. That 1981 team was arguably the best in the history of Clarkson. Three All Americans in Bryan Cleaver, Ed Small and Sylvestri along with Steve Cruickshank the ECAC leading scorer & All American the following year. Sylvestri, Small and Cruickshank all made the 1980's ECAC All Decade Team.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: Who will be the NC$$ Champ?

LOL. Good one. I am not now or have I ever been an athlete. Love to play all the major sports growing up for fun with my friends. When I went to Clarkson, it was the first time I ever ice skated and after those years it was the last time.

Were you part of intramural hockey at Clarkson? Is intramural hockey a big deal there? Perhaps surprisingly, it is at Ohio State.

Granted OSU has a huge community of students & staff to draw from. But when I arrived I was pleasantly surprised that there were 4 levels of play, A through D. (D was the beginner league.) Also 2 separate seasons, Winter Quarter & Spring Quarter. I honestly don't know if OSU has maintained that. The two seasons are probably gone as OSU is now on Semesters. But given our geographic location and relatively mild winters, I thought the program was outstanding.

HUGOOOOO BELANGER!!

OK, we still need to hear this story. If it's fit for a public forum, that is.

...My fondest memories of Clarkson hockey and what I think makes it different from a lot of the big schools is how close the campus is as a group. The guys who played hockey when I was there were top level players, in some of the most successful seasons in their history. However, they didn't really walk around like big men on campus. They'd talk with you, hang out with you, and remember your name. They'd sit down and have a beer with you at the bar (if of age and out of season, of course). To this day, I'll run into guys that played during my time there and they'll remember me by name and have a conversation. That small town atmosphere is what attracted me to Clarkson and what keeps me going back there over 20 years after graduation.

I also have a D-3 school on my resume, and I certainly know what you mean. At the same time, you'd be surprised how a huge university can be collection of small, closer knit groups. That's certainly true at the graduate level. And a specific sport or other activity can generate the same thing.

Clarkson grad as well here. (late 80's). More details on the bell at Walker arena over the entrance to the ice for the visiting team (I think it was the TEK fraternity that was in charge of ringing that thing). at the start and end of each period that thing would br rung right over them as the entered/exited the ice...From my visits...i see the bell made it to cheel, but sadly it does not get rung. I agree that the players were one of us back then. They were in the dorms with us and in the same classes.

Thanks for joining the conversation, and telling the story of the Bell. Congratulations on your National Title, of course.

The "same classes" thing is probably what most divides the large school school experience from the small school experience. Most likely OSU students won't have athletes in their classes. And even if they do, the athletes might go unrecognized. With the obvious exception of the Football players...

My Best (and worst) Walker Arena memory is the 1981 NCAA Quarterfinals against Wisconsin. Clarkson College of Technology (CCT) the ECAC regular season champion was the #1 seed in the East and was arguably the #1 ranked team in the country with a 26–6–3 record. This was back when only 8 teams made the tourney and the quarterfinals were a 2 game aggregate series at the higher seeds rink, with the winners going to the semifinals in Duluth.
CCT who hadn't made the NCAA's since 1970 was #1 in the East played #4 in the west Wisconsin, who received an at-large bid for finishing tied for second in the WCHA.
CCT could score in bunches and thought they had finally found a reliable goalie in freshman Don Sylvestri. But some cracks had shown in their ECAC tourney loss to Providence.
In game 1 Walker arena was packed to the rafters & Clarkson pummeled the Wisconsin net, but goaltender Marc Behrend stood on his head and UW won game1 3-2, shocking the Golden Knights.
Game 2 was a classic, Wisconsin constantly answering every Clarkson goal and Behrend making key saves in the end to preserve a 6-6 tie, giving UW a 9-8 aggregate win.
Wisconsin ended up easily beating Michigan Tech and then Minnesota in the final to take the title. Marc Behrend was the tourney MOP.

I remember that series. Was talking with a buddy of mine who followed college hockey before that series. His comment to me was that Wisconsin deserved a higher seed in the West and that the National Championship would be decided by the winner of this series. He was spot on. That 1981 team was arguably the best in the history of Clarkson. Three All Americans in Bryan Cleaver, Ed Small and Sylvestri along with Steve Cruickshank the ECAC leading scorer & All American the following year. Sylvestri, Small and Cruickshank all made the 1980's ECAC All Decade Team.

I remember the 1981 season well, and was actually in Duluth for the 1981 "Hockey Final Four." (The term Frozen Four didn't come along until much later.) Very interesting to hear the Clarkson perspective on this.

From a Western point of view, that was the famous "Backdoor Badgers" team. UW was excellent all year, but shockingly lost in the first round of the WCHA Playoffs to Colorado College. All through the 1970's (and I believe earlier) if you lost in your league playoffs, you were done for the year. The WCHA & ECAC each produced two playoff champs, and those four teams went to the Final Four. The NCAA Playoff was expanded to 5 in 1979 to accommodate the CCHA. Then in 1981, the field grew to 8, and the at-large bid was born.

There were no Pairwise calculations back in the day. It was not a given that a team's full body of work would be taken into account in at-large selections. There was a fair amount of sentiment in the West that by losing in the first round, UW had lost its chance to go to the national tournament that year. At the same time, there was also a fairly broad consensus that UW was one of the top two teams in the West, based on talent & regular season performance. I doubt that the exact rationale for the Badgers' seeding was ever publicly announced. But I've always believed it was a compromise between the two opposing viewpoints I've described.

Anyhow, you can make the case that the 1981 Badgers were the first at-large team in NCAA Hockey History. That it produced a classic UW/Clarkson series is certainly fitting.

 

[joecct]

Were you part of intramural hockey at Clarkson? Is intramural hockey a big deal there? Perhaps surprisingly, it is at Ohio State.

Granted OSU has a huge community of students & staff to draw from. But when I arrived I was pleasantly surprised that there were 4 levels of play, A through D. (D was the beginner league.) Also 2 separate seasons, Winter Quarter & Spring Quarter. I honestly don't know if OSU has maintained that. The two seasons are probably gone as OSU is now on Semesters. But given our geographic location and relatively mild winters, I thought the program was outstanding.

OK, we still need to hear this story. If it's fit for a public forum, that is.

I also have a D-3 school on my resume, and I certainly know what you mean. At the same time, you'd be surprised how a huge university can be collection of small, closer knit groups. That's certainly true at the graduate level. And a specific sport or other activity can generate the same thing.

Thanks for joining the conversation, and telling the story of the Bell. Congratulations on your National Title, of course.

The "same classes" thing is probably what most divides the large school school experience from the small school experience. Most likely OSU students won't have athletes in their classes. And even if they do, the athletes might go unrecognized. With the obvious exception of the Football players...



I remember the 1981 season well, and was actually in Duluth for the 1981 "Hockey Final Four." (The term Frozen Four didn't come along until much later.) Very interesting to hear the Clarkson perspective on this.

From a Western point of view, that was the famous "Backdoor Badgers" team. UW was excellent all year, but shockingly lost in the first round of the WCHA Playoffs to Colorado College. All through the 1970's (and I believe earlier) if you lost in your league playoffs, you were done for the year. The WCHA & ECAC each produced two playoff champs, and those four teams went to the Final Four. The NCAA Playoff was expanded to 5 in 1979 to accommodate the CCHA. Then in 1981, the field grew to 8, and the at-large bid was born.

There were no Pairwise calculations back in the day. It was not a given that a team's full body of work would be taken into account in at-large selections. There was a fair amount of sentiment in the West that by losing in the first round, UW had lost its chance to go to the national tournament that year. At the same time, there was also a fairly broad consensus that UW was one of the top two teams in the West, based on talent & regular season performance. I doubt that the exact rationale for the Badgers' seeding was ever publicly announced. But I've always believed it was a compromise between the two opposing viewpoints I've described.

Anyhow, you can make the case that the 1981 Badgers were the first at-large team in NCAA Hockey History. That it produced a classic UW/Clarkson series is certainly fitting.

RPI in 1964. 3rd place ECAC advanced over #2 SLU.
BU in 1966. 3rd place ECAC advanced over #2 Cornell.
BU in 1971. 3rd place ECAC tournament over #2 Clarkson

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: Who will be the NC$$ Champ?

RPI in 1964. 3rd place ECAC advanced over #2 SLU.
BU in 1966. 3rd place ECAC advanced over #2 Cornell.
BU in 1971. 3rd place ECAC tournament over #2 Clarkson

Didn't know that history. Before my time, I guess. Regardless, I am wrong about UW being the first at-large team.

But questions remain. Why were those selections made? Were schools passed over by "smoke filled room" decisions? Or did schools sometimes decline the opportunity to participate?

 

[joecct]

Didn't know that history. Before my time, I guess. Regardless, I am wrong about UW being the first at-large team.

But questions remain. Why were those selections made? Were schools passed over by "smoke filled room" decisions? Or did certain schools decline the opportunity to participate?

Until the PWR came out, it was the opinion of a lot of fans that the smoke filled room was in full use. There were a few years where the seedings were a bit head scratching.

On the women's side the only questions have been some of the 1st round pairings to minimize travel.

D3 men for a few years left heads scratching until some good investigative reporting by d3hockey figured out the process. Once you figured out the process, the selections made sense.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: Who will be the NC$$ Champ?

Didn't know that history. Before my time, I guess. Regardless, I am wrong about UW being the first at-large team.

But questions remain. Why were those selections made? Were schools passed over by "smoke filled room" decisions? Or did schools sometimes decline the opportunity to participate?

My recollection is that SLU declined in 1964. They had a barely over .500 league record. That was the year before I arrived at RPI, so I only recall what I read.

 

[Rightnut]

Re: Who will be the NC$$ Champ?

Looking at the next couple of recruiting classes for Clarkson and Colgate, on paper at least, it looks like these two schools will be battling for the ECAC championship (and possibly NCAA championship) for the foreseeable future.

 

[ne7minder]

Re: Who will be the NC$$ Champ?

Didn't know that history. Before my time, I guess. Regardless, I am wrong about UW being the first at-large team.

But questions remain. Why were those selections made? Were schools passed over by "smoke filled room" decisions? Or did schools sometimes decline the opportunity to participate?

Back in prehistoric times before the Web there was this thing called a 'listserv'. The simple explanation was if you were signed up for it you would get a copy of every email sent to it. There was one for college hockey. It was a very interesting group and they spent a lot of time trying to divine how the NC$$ picked teams for the tourney. There was a guy (He can reveal himself if he wants) who reverse engineered the process and created what we understand today to be PRW. Sometime after that (as I understand it) they officially agreed that this was pretty much how it was done and the process became less opaque.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: Who will be the NC$$ Champ?

Back in prehistoric times before the Web there was this thing called a 'listserv'. The simple explanation was if you were signed up for it you would get a copy of every email sent to it. There was one for college hockey. It was a very interesting group and they spent a lot of time trying to divine how the NC$$ picked teams for the tourney. There was a guy (He can reveal himself if he wants) who reverse engineered the process and created what we understand today to be PRW. Sometime after that (as I understand it) they officially agreed that this was pretty much how it was done and the process became less opaque.

So you're saying that this applies to the years we were discussing, meaning the 1960's and 1970's? I'd be surprised if that was the case. I'm not sure what the equivalent to e-mail would have been in those decades. But more to the point, until joecct pointed out the 3 exceptions, I wasn't aware that on-ice playoff results were ever overridden in the four team tournament years.

Then again, I've already admitted that I have no first hand knowledge of the NCAA tournaments of the 1960's. What little I know is just a matter of history. Guess I'm just not old enough. Now there's something I don't get to say very often.

Your description does ring true for the 1980's forward.

 

[Still Eeyore]

Re: Who will be the NC$$ Champ?

So you're saying that this applies to the years we were discussing, meaning the 1960's and 1970's? I'd be surprised if that was the case. I'm not sure what the equivalent to e-mail would have been in those decades. But more to the point, until joecct pointed out the 3 exceptions, I wasn't aware that on-ice playoff results were ever overridden in the four team tournament years.

The equivalent to email in those decades was email. The reverse engineering of PWR came about in the mid 1990s, if I remember correctly. My understanding is that the NCAA selection committee had been using it for a few years at that point, but not more than that. Before 1990, it was pretty much the smoke filled room.

 

[ne7minder]

Re: Who will be the NC$$ Champ?

The equivalent to email in those decades was email. The reverse engineering of PWR came about in the mid 1990s, if I remember correctly. My understanding is that the NCAA selection committee had been using it for a few years at that point, but not more than that. Before 1990, it was pretty much the smoke filled room.

Agreed but I understood the reverse eng was early 90s and that it tracked behavior at least in the mid to late 80s. I could be mistaken as I have never asked for details.

As for email, I sat at the console of a front-end processor in 1980 and exchanged messages with people across the country via a private network set up by the company I worked for. We didn't call it email and it wasn't the Internet but it would look familiar to people except no pretty graphical interface. Also, while at NASA, I attended a global video conference over the Internet in 1992, this stuff is a lot older than a lot of people understand