When will Union finally move beyond Barcomb?

[CrossCheck]

Re: When will Union finally move beyond Barcomb?

Not joining the NESCAC (if that was really even an option at some point) seemed to work out for Union, what with the men's NCAA championship and all. I'm sure they'll take that over a good women's program any day (as would pretty much any hockey school).

I'll take USNWR analysis over your biased opinions of the lower tier NESCAC schools - acceptance rates and test scores aren't everything either and their criteria are a little broader and more objective. To be clear, though, all the NESCAC schools are excellent schools as is Union.

Your opinion is bubkiss.....So years and years of lousy hockey [followed by ONE championship] is all worth it? Go talk to some of the Union profs about that one...or the Admissions Dept. It was a stupid, shortsighted move that they have and will regret for a looooong time. If you live on the east coast in particular, the difference [real or perceived] between the NESCAC and non-NESCAC simply can't be understated. It's a huge difference. [and I like Union and have several relatives who attended]

 

[hkypassion]

Re: When will Union finally move beyond Barcomb?

Typically I have found that knowledgeable folks (including prep school college counselors) rank Union as comparable academically to the lower tier of NESCAC schools (Trinity, Conn College, Bates) and the USNWR data seems to confirm that. Union is not comparable to Williams, Amherst, Middlebury, Bowdoin academically though - and girls who are candidates for Union do indeed sometimes opt for one of those schools over Union if the opportunity at both is available.

Why would any smart talented female hockey player opt for Union (low end ECAC) if they had a chance to compete for a potential national championship at an upper NESCAC school?!!! Amherst, Middlebury and Bowdoin are always in the upper tier of the NESCAC standing and Williams is coming on strong. Unless some are SO blinded by the D1 moniker I'd advise anyone that would be the better way to go to get the best of BOTH! Who doesn't want to compete for a national title?!!!

 

[HockeyEast33]

Re: When will Union finally move beyond Barcomb?

You answered your own question, there are many strong D3 players that choose D1 because it's D1. Last I checked there are many great Dr's, Lawyers, Business Leaders, Educators... Etc. Coming out of many different types of schools. The reason for Union inability to compete at the D1 level is because it recruits D3 players. Put Union at D3 level and they're juts that a strong D3 program. As the depth of D1 players grows so will Union. On the men's side there are way more strong D1 players that opt for an Ivy or a Union. These schools are less likely to lose players early to NHL so they tend to be older. Claudia and staff are doing the best they can given the student athlete they have to work with. Give them Minnesota's line-up or BC's and they're likely to win a heck of a lot more games then they are now.

Claudia and staff picked the student athletes they have, so they don't get a pass if they aren't very good - it's all on them. They've had 8 years to find a formula for success and have produced nada. That's WAY more than any other school or program would have allowed. BC is successful because they had a good coach who recruited quality players and then coached them well. They once were unsuccessful like Union - difference is they got better.

 

[HockeyEast33]

Re: When will Union finally move beyond Barcomb?

Your opinion is bubkiss.....So years and years of lousy hockey [followed by ONE championship] is all worth it? Go talk to some of the Union profs about that one...or the Admissions Dept. It was a stupid, shortsighted move that they have and will regret for a looooong time. If you live on the east coast in particular, the difference [real or perceived] between the NESCAC and non-NESCAC simply can't be understated. It's a huge difference. [and I like Union and have several relatives who attended]

Admission departments are VERY happy with D1 athletic programs because they produce publicity even if they aren't very good and consequently applications and money. Professor's should like because it allows them to keep their job (much as they hate to admit it). The admissions department this year should be ecstatic because a D1 championship produced a lot of national recognition for the school.

 

[Cali]

Claudia and staff picked the student athletes they have, so they don't get a pass if they aren't very good - it's all on them. They've had 8 years to find a formula for success and have produced nada. That's WAY more than any other school or program would have allowed. BC is successful because they had a good coach who recruited quality players and then coached them well. They once were unsuccessful like Union - difference is they got better.

Another factor is that the facilities are sub-par and the school is located in the cesspool called Schenectedy. Those certainly weigh in the decision.

 

[ARM]

Re: When will Union finally move beyond Barcomb?

BC is successful because they had a good coach who recruited quality players and then coached them well. They once were unsuccessful like Union - difference is they got better.

It's a stretch to compare the coaching jobs at BC and Union. Yes, Katie King Crowley has done a great job, but she inherited a team that was coming off a Frozen Four appearance, provides athletic scholarships, and is one of the most recognizable brands in the college hockey world. The big change in the picture for BC was not the hiring of one coach, but the realization that BU was adding hockey as a varsity program and the athletic department needed to start investing in the program or get beat regularly by its biggest rival on the men's side.

 

[CrossCheck]

Re: When will Union finally move beyond Barcomb?

Admission departments are VERY happy with D1 athletic programs because they produce publicity even if they aren't very good and consequently applications and money. Professor's should like because it allows them to keep their job (much as they hate to admit it). The admissions department this year should be ecstatic because a D1 championship produced a lot of national recognition for the school.

ok...so you think winning a men's hockey championship equals big money for the school?? Now I know you're delusional.

You have to remember that this ain't SEC football or big-time college hoops. My guess is they barely covered their own expenses. And as for any 'carry-over' effect....I'd say marginal at best. In a year or two, nobody outside this forum will [if they ever did] remember that Union won anything....and the rest of the NESCAC schools will be just fine as always at the top of the D-3 world.

 

[shelfit]

Re: When will Union finally move beyond Barcomb?

Look at Union's history on this site. Their best season as a DIII team was their final year as a DIII team when their record was 11-14-1. They should never have gone up to DI. Biggest mistake they ever made. The 3 head coaches since the transition to DI have had terrible records each year since then. Last year was their best at 9-24-1. Their record as a DI program is 49-302-23 for a .162 winning percentage. The numbers tell the story very vividly and it's not a good one.

 

[HockeyEast33]

Re: When will Union finally move beyond Barcomb?

ok...so you think winning a men's hockey championship equals big money for the school?? Now I know you're delusional.

You have to remember that this ain't SEC football or big-time college hoops. My guess is they barely covered their own expenses. And as for any 'carry-over' effect....I'd say marginal at best. In a year or two, nobody outside this forum will [if they ever did] remember that Union won anything....and the rest of the NESCAC schools will be just fine as always at the top of the D-3 world.

It equals increased applications which increases student body quality and the opportunity to pay less financial aid/earn more money, so yes it does pay out for them.

Also - to another poster - Schenectady is WAY improved over where it was 10-20 years ago (when is definitely was a cesspool). Downtown is actually pretty nice now with historic Stockade district being very attractive and safe (and increasingly expensive). The state of NY and GE have poured a lot of money into the city to improve it.

 

[vicb]

Re: When will Union finally move beyond Barcomb?

Look at Union's history on this site. Their best season as a DIII team was their final year as a DIII team when their record was 11-14-1. They should never have gone up to DI. Biggest mistake they ever made. The 3 head coaches since the transition to DI have had terrible records each year since then. Last year was their best at 9-24-1. Their record as a DI program is 49-302-23 for a .162 winning percentage. The numbers tell the story very vividly and it's not a good one.

And I bet former Union President Roger Hull is very proud of them.

 

[NotSoPartialObserver]

Re: When will Union finally move beyond Barcomb?

ok...so you think winning a men's hockey championship equals big money for the school?? Now I know you're delusional.

You have to remember that this ain't SEC football or big-time college hoops. My guess is they barely covered their own expenses. And as for any 'carry-over' effect....I'd say marginal at best. In a year or two, nobody outside this forum will [if they ever did] remember that Union won anything....and the rest of the NESCAC schools will be just fine as always at the top of the D-3 world.

As long as the guys who were on that team keep succeeding at the next level Union will get attention. I don't see it dying out with Ghost and Grosenick as part of that group.

 

[CrossCheck]

Re: When will Union finally move beyond Barcomb?

As long as the guys who were on that team keep succeeding at the next level Union will get attention. I don't see it dying out with Ghost and Grosenick as part of that group.

For hockey nuts on this forum...probably true. For 99.99999999999999% of the rest of the country? ZERO effect....and i do mean zero.

Same for the argument about increased money, attention, applications and admissions standards going up....Not a chance...Again, you are looking at this as a hockey nut, not some 12th grade girl in Nebraska [or any other state]....hockey has virtually zero [there's that word again] visibility on the national scene...

 

[Plus-Minus]

Re: When will Union finally move beyond Barcomb?

I think it's time that the Athletic Director reviews her contract and her buy out clause.

 

[HockeyEast33]

Re: When will Union finally move beyond Barcomb?

I think it's time that the Athletic Director reviews her contract and her buy out clause.

Well, yeah!?

Here's a comparison point: Brown finished in last behind Union this season and the coach is gone because she had 4 seasons to change things there and failed. This is only the second time in 10 years Union hasn't finished last and Barcomb is still there. How can that be?

 

[Call It]

Re: When will Union finally move beyond Barcomb?

Who could turn this program into a winning program? Remember the new coach can't give scholarships and will have a hard time getting players through admission. Seriously... WHO?

 

[HockeyEast33]

Re: When will Union finally move beyond Barcomb?

Who could turn this program into a winning program? Remember the new coach can't give scholarships and will have a hard time getting players through admission. Seriously... WHO?

Hey, Brown (and Harvard, Princeton, Cornell, Dartmouth, and Yale) all face the same issues and apparently they expect to have a coach who can win. Why shouldn't Union?

 

[Call It]

Hey, Brown (and Harvard, Princeton, Cornell, Dartmouth, and Yale) all face the same issues and apparently they expect to have a coach who can win. Why shouldn't Union?

Not really an even playing field. Ivy vs non. Two houses both the same but 1 is on the water... Who can sell non-waterfront as waterfront? I'm not arguing that a change might be needed but who can the AD get that is better than Claudia? Not many quality coaches on the women's side.

 

[123kidd]

Re: When will Union finally move beyond Barcomb?

Are you suggesting a certain WCHA coach to take over at Union? I don't think Means would be interested.

 

[Plus-Minus]

Re: When will Union finally move beyond Barcomb?

Anyone would be better than Claudia. Perhaps the librarian? Maybe even their mascot...

RIT is in the same boat as Union, but they are far more successful, so no, scholarships/financial aid is not the issue. I think Union can find better coaching, and coaching is clearly the real issue.

 

[Flarrow]

Re: When will Union finally move beyond Barcomb?

If Jim McLaughlin doesn't want to go to far out on a limb ( and clearly after 8 years, he doesn't), how about this: replace Assano with Julie Chu. She's aging off the US team, has been Union Assistant Coach, might want a stable couple of years, AND hire her a quality Assistant Coach.