When Will The BHHC start up?

[uaafanblog]

Re: When Will The BHHC start up?

The 'BHHC' would be a very viable BTHC rival, given that the schools it would contain all would all have the needed resources and desire to compete in college hockey at the highest level. A BHHC would would be freed from the non-profitability of diluted league schedules full of non-attractive opponents. Sure, the travel costs would be a little higher for the BHHC, but that would be more than offset by more attractive scheduling, more TV interest and revenue, bigger brand power and a better recruiting platform.

So because DU has a hard time finding 6,000 fans in a metro area of over 1 million people to come see Mankato; then DU should jump ship and make a new conference with UND, Miami and Notre Dame? Seems to me that some actual marketing of the existing product is less of an investment than redesigning, retooling and then marketing a new product. Especially, if you're doing so in a competitive market.

So what inducements is DU going to offer to say UND to join the BHHC? Let's imagine something. While DU is out trying to market the BHHC, UND suddenly gets inquiries and offers to join a proposed AFWHC (Another Fake Western Hockey Conference). UAA and UAF offer them 25 plane tickets per trip and hence the ability to play the two extra games in front of 11,000 fans at the Ralph. Do you think the cachet of playing DU and Miami and Notre Dame 4 times a year is going to sway them to the BHHC? Hmmm ... I can see all three of those schools being interested in the AFWHC offer.

In a BTHC only world, UAA and UAF may be happy to maintain some sort of status quo in their existing affiliations. In a BTHC/BHHC world, I promise you they will assert themselves. The NCAA doesn't care how UAA and UAF "dole" out the exemptions ya know? Both schools have a long history of providing airfare for the sake of the sport.

Of course, there would be collateral damage to the schools left behind in the wake of a BHHC, and there is no question that there would be some abdication of moral responsibility if the shunned WCHA and CCHA schools do not band together in a time of crisis. However, in this day of voracious revenue needs and long-term program viability, the Big 10 doesn't seem to worry about leaving us remaining WCHA and CCHA programs to scramble for the remaining lifeboats. And when that particular load of crap hits the fan, would be wise to have built the best possible lifeboat instead of trying to survive in a life-vest, bobbing for survival in the mid-major waters.

Two wrongs make a right? Because the BTHC does it then what is there to stopping DU, UND, Miami and Notre Dame?

In other words, the BTHC formation will set off a classic Darwinian food-chain struggle. As a Pioneer fan with 60 years of tradition and hundreds of millions invested to stay as an elite program, I expect my school to look out for it's best interests after being screwed by the BTHC. And it's interests are better served by banding together with other like-minded, well-resourced programs. If DU doesn't try to better its situation, it will become a mid-major rather than stay as a power program.

Sure, DU (and everyone else) has got to look out for themselves first.

That said, if this were really about banding together for the sport, the Big 10 schools wouldn't leave in the first place or at the very least, they would find a "Big 10 cup" alignment that works within the the existing WCHA and CCHA leagues, as they Ivy league does within the ECACHL.

And every word that has come out of the Big Ten offices has been tailored to alleviate that fear. There is no reason that Big Ten schools can't get the necessary leeway from their current conferences to contest their championships from within today's alignment. It's clearly a viable option and one which nobody has ruled out (well .. except the DU fans pushing the BHHC idea).

Unfortunately, in the world of revenue college sports, business interests have to come first. We've seen it in football and basketball with the BCS and conference re-alignment. Now it is hockey's turn, as our fragile 58 team ecosystem is damaged by the BTHC pullout.

So suddenly college hockey revenue is going to jump to levels which will induce the same greed we see in college basketball and football? The Big Ten network that today doesn't broadcast Big Ten games which it could is suddenly going to find an audience? Women's Basketball viewers are converting to ice hockey? I guess I don't see where this revenue that isn't being accessed by programs today is going to come from tomorrow.

Allow me to restate that your characterization that the Big Ten doesn't care has been addressed by the Big Ten officials who've commented. They were quite specific about being concerned with it's impact on the rest of college hockey. How believable their statements are can certainly be brought into question. But, so far they've said the right thing in that regard.

 

[goldy_331]

Re: When Will The BHHC start up?

I missed it, so when did the mods let Donald back in? Why did he want to get back in? I thought he was too good for this mess.

 

[uaafanblog]

Re: When Will The BHHC start up?

I guess when you've been banned for calling people names and then the place turns into a complete circus of name calling during my four year (or whatever it was) absence that they realized I wasn't so bad?

I did fully expect that my registration would be denied. I used my blog email address and real name so they'd know it was me.

As to why? Because once again I saw some general disinformation popping up here and there about UAA that nobody else was taking the time to correct.

 

[Dirty]

Re: When Will The BHHC start up?

Don't people have to talk about UAA for there to be disinformation about them?

 

[uaafanblog]

Re: When Will The BHHC start up?

Very astute of you Dirty. Yes. And they were.

 

[Farce Poobah]

Re: When Will The BHHC start up?

If i were giving away free passes to the best post in a thread .. you'd be on your way to free UAA Hockey games ...

First prize is one free pass.
Second prize is two free passes.
Etc.

 

[uaafanblog]

Re: When Will The BHHC start up?

First prize is one free pass.
Second prize is two free passes.
Etc.

Oh I get it. Because it would suck to win passes to a UAA game because the Seawolves suck.

That's a knee slapper.

Oh yeah ... that's why I returned here. All the witty banter.

 

[Dirty]

Re: When Will The BHHC start up?

Oh I get it. Because it would suck to win passes to a UAA game because the Seawolves suck.

That's a knee slapper.

Oh yeah ... that's why I returned here. All the witty banter.

Well your blog certainly doesn't have it, so you need to get it somewhere.

 

[uaafanblog]

Re: When Will The BHHC start up?

Well your blog certainly doesn't have it, so you need to get it somewhere.

So you really think the Soo train will work for UND as a replacement for the hostile and abusive name you guys have to change? I don't see it. From what I can tell ... the Soo trains never went through North Dakota. The Zephyrs did however travel across North Dakota (as fast as they could mind you) quite often.

And since the subject of the thread is the BHHC, I'll try to return to that despite your weak sauce fishing trip. Do you really think that UND will jump into bed with DU and Miami and Notre Dame? I really can't feature that either.

UND's entire history (nay ... a great part of it's identity) is wrapped up with the Gophers. I'm guessing the UND folks will do whatever they need to do in order to keep their relationship with da gophs as similar as possible to the current one. Don't you think?

The 500,000K or so payday that two extra gates provides is a pretty strong inducement even for the ever so rich UND program.

Or is this all just too hard for you to follow?

 

[goldy_331]

Re: When Will The BHHC start up?

As to why? Because once again I saw some general disinformation popping up here and there about UAA that nobody else was taking the time to correct.

So, was someone coming on early each season to tout the returning and new UAA players, hype their talents and heart and predict a top half finish in the league? I can see where one would want to correct that kind of disinformation.

 

[Dirty]

Re: When Will The BHHC start up?

So, was someone coming on early each season to tout the returning and new UAA players, hype their talents and heart and predict a top half finish in the league? I can see where one would want to correct that kind of disinformation.

Replace UAA with UM and it still works!

 

[goldy_331]

Re: When Will The BHHC start up?

Replace UAA with UM and it still works!

Yeah, those Michigan posters are always doing that!

 

[4four4]

Re: When Will The BHHC start up?

Replace UAA with UM and it still works!

After seeing coach Lucia this past weekend the Gophers will no doubt be a better hockey club. Bank on it.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: When Will The BHHC start up?

... the Big 10 doesn't seem to worry about leaving us remaining WCHA and CCHA programs to scramble for the remaining lifeboats.

If we're left with the remaining lifeboats that means the Big Ten took the first ones. And we know who goes to the life boats first: women and children.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: When Will The BHHC start up?

... the Gophers will no doubt be a better hockey club.

Given where they're coming from that still leaves a rather broad range of possible performance.

 

[Sean Pickett]

Re: When Will The BHHC start up?

So because DU has a hard time finding 6,000 fans in a metro area of over 1 million people to come see Mankato; then DU should jump ship and make a new conference with UND, Miami and Notre Dame?

I believe that Puck Swami is refering to the level of the on ice competition that Denver needs to play to remain an elite program.

So what inducements is DU going to offer to say UND to join the BHHC? Let's imagine something. While DU is out trying to market the BHHC, UND suddenly gets inquiries and offers to join a proposed AFWHC (Another Fake Western Hockey Conference). UAA and UAF offer them 25 plane tickets per trip and hence the ability to play the two extra games in front of 11,000 fans at the Ralph. Do you think the cachet of playing DU and Miami and Notre Dame 4 times a year is going to sway them to the BHHC? Hmmm ... I can see all three of those schools being interested in the AFWHC offer.

I think that UND would take 12 games a years vs DU, Miamia and the other UND over 4 "extra" home games over UAA and UAF.

In a BTHC only world, UAA and UAF may be happy to maintain some sort of status quo in their existing affiliations. In a BTHC/BHHC world, I promise you they will assert themselves. The NCAA doesn't care how UAA and UAF "dole" out the exemptions ya know? Both schools have a long history of providing airfare for the sake of the sport.

I agree, but it would have to be in mid-major waters.

Two wrongs make a right? Because the BTHC does it then what is there to stopping DU, UND, Miami and Notre Dame?

Nothing and they should be proactive and do it first instead of waiting and reacting.

Sure, DU (and everyone else) has got to look out for themselves first.

Agreed.

And every word that has come out of the Big Ten offices has been tailored to alleviate that fear. There is no reason that Big Ten schools can't get the necessary leeway from their current conferences to contest their championships from within today's alignment. It's clearly a viable option and one which nobody has ruled out (well .. except the DU fans pushing the BHHC idea).

That's not what I have infered from what little has been said on the matter. I fully expect to see the BTHC starting in 2014. Why else is PSU going to play as an independent for 2 seasons? If there will be no BTHC then PSU should apply to the CCHA now and ask to join the league for the 2012-13 season. Why wait two years then join the CCHA?

So suddenly college hockey revenue is going to jump to levels which will induce the same greed we see in college basketball and football? The Big Ten network that today doesn't broadcast Big Ten games which it could is suddenly going to find an audience? Women's Basketball viewers are converting to ice hockey? I guess I don't see where this revenue that isn't being accessed by programs today is going to come from tomorrow.

Maybe, maybe not, but the fact is a BTHC will be a major player and command a large portion of what TV revenue there is. And a BTHC will likely increase the casual college hockey fanbase which could help the sport to grow (whether or not that is a good thing has been debated on numerous threads over the years).

Allow me to restate that your characterization that the Big Ten doesn't care has been addressed by the Big Ten officials who've commented. They were quite specific about being concerned with it's impact on the rest of college hockey. How believable their statements are can certainly be brought into question. But, so far they've said the right thing in that regard.

I agree that the Big11Ten are concerned with the impact of a BTHC on college hockey. After all, what good is a BTHC to the Big11Ten if it causes DI hockey implode? It's one thing to be the big fish in the big pond and quite another to be the only fish in a drying watering hole.

Sean Pickett

 

[Beer Pong Horn]

Re: When Will The BHHC start up?

So you really think the Soo train will work for UND as a replacement for the hostile and abusive name you guys have to change? I don't see it. From what I can tell ... the Soo trains never went through North Dakota. The Zephyrs did however travel across North Dakota (as fast as they could mind you) quite often.

Fail.

The Soo Line did and does go across North Dakota, from Fairmount to Portal, though you'd have to call them the Fighting Soo d/b/a Canadian Pacifics . Besides, the Zephyrs never went further northwest than Minneapolis.

/train nerd, which is its own type of fail, but I digress

 

[Dirty]

Re: When Will The BHHC start up?

Fail.

The Soo Line did and does go across North Dakota, from Fairmount to Portal, though you'd have to call them the Fighting Soo d/b/a Canadian Pacifics . Besides, the Zephyrs never went further northwest than Minneapolis.

/train nerd, which is its own type of fail, but I digress

So what you're saying is that I'm right and Donald is wrong? Not a surprise.

 

[Beer Pong Horn]

Re: When Will The BHHC start up?

So what you're saying is that I'm right and Donald is wrong? Not a surprise.

Saying that you're right would require me to read your blog.

EDIT: Or his. Either way, not worth it.

 

[uaafanblog]

Re: When Will The BHHC start up?

I believe that Puck Swami is refering to the level of the on ice competition that Denver needs to play to remain an elite program.

I don't disagree that may be a factor, but I've seen this part of the argument before and primarily the concern from the DU side has been filling the empty seats that are the difference between when UofM shows up at Magness and a "lesser" team. Generally, the DU folks overstate the impact (IMnotsoHO). Over a three year period the average difference between the two has been shown previously to be in the low hundreds. And sure, replacing the revenue loss that say 500 less fans over 8 or 12 games (a high maximum number) is a concern for DU. No doubt. Just not the difference between being (as they promote) and elite and a mid-major.

The average sports fan in Denver pays zero attention to DU. The average hockey fan in Denver doesn't have much more of a clue. DU's marketing is worse than UAA's.

I think that UND would take 12 games a years vs DU, Miamia and the other UND over 4 "extra" home games over UAA and UAF.

It has nothing to do with playing extra games versus UAA or UAF (I wasn't clear perhaps). It has to do with making a trip up here to play two games and how that earns the traveling team two exempt games against the NCAA limit. That's two home games they wouldn't otherwise have on their schedule.

Now do you think UND would value playing DU, Miami and Notre Dame more than they would the revenue that 22,000 folks filling the Ralph over an extra 2 nights? Do the math. 22,000 x ticket price = revenue they otherwise wouldn't see. I come up with just under half a million dollars. So my question was can a BHHC begin to match that revenue stream? If so, how?

I used UND in my question but the same applies to DU. They don't make half a million bucks for two extra games but 250K ain't anything to sneeze at. Especially, when it's compared to zero, which is the revenue that a BHHC provides over and above the norm.

My point (theory), which Swams fully understands ... is that in a scramble to form a new league ... a partnership between UAA and UAF would put a beatdown on DU in terms of lining up members. The AFWHC > BHHC in that sense.

UAA and UAF won't buck the status quo too much with the departure of Big Ten schools. But if that will spur DU, UND et al to bolt ... UAA and UAF will jump into the neo-alignment fray (together) and beat programs over the head with their leverage (the Alaska-Hawaii Exemption rule). DU (or any hopeful leader of a BHHC movement) can't compete with that potential revenue.

That's not what I have infered from what little has been said on the matter. I fully expect to see the BTHC starting in 2014. Why else is PSU going to play as an independent for 2 seasons? If there will be no BTHC then PSU should apply to the CCHA now and ask to join the league for the 2012-13 season. Why wait two years then join the CCHA?

Because a school that has never participated in D-1 hockey finds themselves with a surprise announcement and the weight of the entire college hockey landscape at their feet the next day. There's a big difference between you and I who have considered these very issues for years and a noob to the sport.

Delineating a cogent position to try to alleviate the fears of the masses while at the same time trying to appear like they know how to swim is a bit delicate. They didn't quite hit the mark. My interpretation is that they didn't want to close any doors and maintaining their independence is a reasonable default position considering their program was just days old when they made the statements.

Maybe, maybe not, but the fact is a BTHC will be a major player and command a large portion of what TV revenue there is. And a BTHC will likely increase the casual college hockey fanbase which could help the sport to grow (whether or not that is a good thing has been debated on numerous threads over the years).

How spending choices for limited disposable income changes from today's "meh" to tomorrows "wowz" doesn't compute for me. The fact is that a number of programming options are better choices for that network than putting on college hockey. That certainly could change to some degree however I don't see it being more than low percentage points.

I hope that clarifies my initial post.