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What the Fark???
- Thread starter MadTownSioux
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unofan
Well-known member
Re: What the Fark???
Maybe to him and his friends it means that...but I doubt such an interpretation is generational. No idea how old your brother is, but it's still a pretty strong symbol of the South and, by proxy, racism around here.
Maybe to him and his friends it means that...but I doubt such an interpretation is generational. No idea how old your brother is, but it's still a pretty strong symbol of the South and, by proxy, racism around here.
state of hockey
He fixes the cable?
Re: What the Fark???
We don't need no stinkin BADgers!
We don't need no stinkin BADgers!
Re: What the Fark???
He is in his mid-30's. In MN. It really is not a racial thing around here, it just "identifies" you with a motorcyle/pickup drivin', campfires, beer, 'merica, no cityfolk style. Hell, I know what the true meaning is, but for me, it's been "pop-culturized" and lost its original meaning when people display it. Yes, part of that is probably because of the region I'm in, but I'm honest when I say when I see the Stars'n'Bars, I do not take it to mean a racial thing. It's just somebody that is representing country hicks (which is a view that is predjudiced in its own right).
He is in his mid-30's. In MN. It really is not a racial thing around here, it just "identifies" you with a motorcyle/pickup drivin', campfires, beer, 'merica, no cityfolk style. Hell, I know what the true meaning is, but for me, it's been "pop-culturized" and lost its original meaning when people display it. Yes, part of that is probably because of the region I'm in, but I'm honest when I say when I see the Stars'n'Bars, I do not take it to mean a racial thing. It's just somebody that is representing country hicks (which is a view that is predjudiced in its own right).
duper
Well-known member
Re: What the Fark???
I would generally agree here ( I meant to quote unofan, so I am saying I agree with unofan). Lots of people mean different things in lots of different places by displaying the confederate flag. Hell, last summer I went into a gun shop in Budapest, and there was a confederate flag hanging there. And the owner was Hungarian. Some things just are what they are. And I'm certain that Brent's brother means nothing racist, but there is one undisputable fact.
Whatever revisionist history may tell you about states rights, whatever rednecks who happen not to be racist tell you about a simpler life, it stands for an army that rose up against their government (I believe the technical term for these people is traitors) and one of the major (I believe the biggest by far but revisionist historians will debate me here) issues was the right to own black people. So, while I don't believe that everyone who displays a confederate flag is racist, and I doubt that any really qualify as traitors anymore, it stands for racism. Every time. It stands for other stuff too, but it stands for racism every time.
That said, I highly doubt that Brent's brother gives a flying **** what my opinion is.
I would generally agree here ( I meant to quote unofan, so I am saying I agree with unofan). Lots of people mean different things in lots of different places by displaying the confederate flag. Hell, last summer I went into a gun shop in Budapest, and there was a confederate flag hanging there. And the owner was Hungarian. Some things just are what they are. And I'm certain that Brent's brother means nothing racist, but there is one undisputable fact.
Whatever revisionist history may tell you about states rights, whatever rednecks who happen not to be racist tell you about a simpler life, it stands for an army that rose up against their government (I believe the technical term for these people is traitors) and one of the major (I believe the biggest by far but revisionist historians will debate me here) issues was the right to own black people. So, while I don't believe that everyone who displays a confederate flag is racist, and I doubt that any really qualify as traitors anymore, it stands for racism. Every time. It stands for other stuff too, but it stands for racism every time.
That said, I highly doubt that Brent's brother gives a flying **** what my opinion is.
Re: What the Fark???
And the swastika has changed meaning over time, too. Just sayin'. Yes, it's Godwin's law, but it is actually relevant here.
Too many passages to quote, so here's the wiki link, of which I can pretty much say is accurate, from what I've learned over the years: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
I would generally agree here ( I meant to quote unofan, so I am saying I agree with unofan). Lots of people mean different things in lots of different places by displaying the confederate flag. Hell, last summer I went into a gun shop in Budapest, and there was a confederate flag hanging there. And the owner was Hungarian. Some things just are what they are. And I'm certain that Brent's brother means nothing racist, but there is one undisputable fact.
Whatever revisionist history may tell you about states rights, whatever rednecks who happen not to be racist tell you about a simpler life, it stands for an army that rose up against their government (I believe the technical term for these people is traitors) and one of the major (I believe the biggest by far but revisionist historians will debate me here) issues was the right to own black people. So, while I don't believe that everyone who displays a confederate flag is racist, and I doubt that any really qualify as traitors anymore, it stands for racism. Every time. It stands for other stuff too, but it stands for racism every time.
That said, I highly doubt that Brent's brother gives a flying **** what my opinion is.
And the swastika has changed meaning over time, too. Just sayin'. Yes, it's Godwin's law, but it is actually relevant here.
Too many passages to quote, so here's the wiki link, of which I can pretty much say is accurate, from what I've learned over the years: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
state of hockey
He fixes the cable?
Re: What the Fark???
Yeah, but once the Nazis used it it was largely abandoned in the Western world.
I agree with the way that duper put it, especially the second paragraph.
Yeah, but once the Nazis used it it was largely abandoned in the Western world.
I agree with the way that duper put it, especially the second paragraph.
duper
Well-known member
Re: What the Fark???
I should have prefaced my comment with something along the lines that I'm really not judging. I didn't look at your link (although I will) because I have a pretty good handle on what you mean. I want to say the swastika, or something very like it was the symbol of Hermes, among many many other things. Also, if you look at a Navajo rug woven before WWII you will probably find swastikas in it. Here's the thing, and it is the rub of my point; after WWII, most Navajo people stopped putting that symbol in their rugs, and never restarted.
Now, to be fair, the Confederacy wasn't trying to wipe out the black race, so the confederate flag will never be as offensive as the swastika. But I guess what I mean by the whole thing here is; no one should ever be surprised if a black person is offended by a confederate flag. As much as any given person may see it as totally benign, I can't control how a black man raised in Alabama in the 60's feels about that symbol any more than I can control how your brother sees the symbol.
If it were me, I would choose another symbol to show my pride in my way of life.
I should have prefaced my comment with something along the lines that I'm really not judging. I didn't look at your link (although I will) because I have a pretty good handle on what you mean. I want to say the swastika, or something very like it was the symbol of Hermes, among many many other things. Also, if you look at a Navajo rug woven before WWII you will probably find swastikas in it. Here's the thing, and it is the rub of my point; after WWII, most Navajo people stopped putting that symbol in their rugs, and never restarted.
Now, to be fair, the Confederacy wasn't trying to wipe out the black race, so the confederate flag will never be as offensive as the swastika. But I guess what I mean by the whole thing here is; no one should ever be surprised if a black person is offended by a confederate flag. As much as any given person may see it as totally benign, I can't control how a black man raised in Alabama in the 60's feels about that symbol any more than I can control how your brother sees the symbol.
If it were me, I would choose another symbol to show my pride in my way of life.
Re: What the Fark???
I understand his point, and given the short-attention span generalities of the American public, I really do think that outside of the southeast (in general), the meaning of the Stars'n'Bars have changed for the most part. Yes, I know there are rednecks that still believe that the South won, etc. It's BS. But for the average American, I do believe that it's more a Harley/Skynyrd/etc thing, not "I want slaves" thing.
BTW, an effed up thing I saw a few years ago: Hispanic with a Stars'n'Bars bandanna in his back pocket. In OK. It was........odd.
I understand his point, and given the short-attention span generalities of the American public, I really do think that outside of the southeast (in general), the meaning of the Stars'n'Bars have changed for the most part. Yes, I know there are rednecks that still believe that the South won, etc. It's BS. But for the average American, I do believe that it's more a Harley/Skynyrd/etc thing, not "I want slaves" thing.
BTW, an effed up thing I saw a few years ago: Hispanic with a Stars'n'Bars bandanna in his back pocket. In OK. It was........odd.
duper
Well-known member
Re: What the Fark???
For the record, Ronnie Van Zant refused to allow the confederate flag on anything with the Lynyrd Skynyrd name on it. The record companies wanted it because it would have been good marketing, but anything that says Lynyrd Skynyrd and has a confederate flag on it was produced after the death of RVZ.
And finally, I agree with Brent. It is a primarily harmless symbol. However, if I were to display it, I would expect that people would periodically mess with me, because I am displaying a symbol that millions of Americans perceive as racist.
The head of maintenance at Scammon Bay School, who is a Yup'ik Eskimo, has a confederate flag hanging in his office. This does make me smile.
For the record, Ronnie Van Zant refused to allow the confederate flag on anything with the Lynyrd Skynyrd name on it. The record companies wanted it because it would have been good marketing, but anything that says Lynyrd Skynyrd and has a confederate flag on it was produced after the death of RVZ.
And finally, I agree with Brent. It is a primarily harmless symbol. However, if I were to display it, I would expect that people would periodically mess with me, because I am displaying a symbol that millions of Americans perceive as racist.
The head of maintenance at Scammon Bay School, who is a Yup'ik Eskimo, has a confederate flag hanging in his office. This does make me smile.
Re: What the Fark???
I knew about the Skynyrd thing, but it still represents that facet of I guess what you would call "lifestyle."
I guess the whole point is that the meaning of things CAN change, it's a matter of HOW it will change. So far, we've seen the swastika change for the bad, and the Stars'n'Bars (very generally) change for the good. Given the time periods (centuries vs what, 150 years or so?) I think we're doing okay. Hell, remember about 90 years ago, when "damn" was a censored word in anything but super private conversation?
I knew about the Skynyrd thing, but it still represents that facet of I guess what you would call "lifestyle."
I guess the whole point is that the meaning of things CAN change, it's a matter of HOW it will change. So far, we've seen the swastika change for the bad, and the Stars'n'Bars (very generally) change for the good. Given the time periods (centuries vs what, 150 years or so?) I think we're doing okay. Hell, remember about 90 years ago, when "damn" was a censored word in anything but super private conversation?
Re: What the Fark???
And I can see eye-to-eye on that. I understand some people's feelings on that. I may disagree, but I respect their viewpoint
And I can see eye-to-eye on that. I understand some people's feelings on that. I may disagree, but I respect their viewpoint
bigblue_dl
Armed
Re: What the Fark???
I don't see how people can think I'm racist when Brent is the one that wants to fly the flag of the CSA and go back to owning his very own Toby.
I don't see how people can think I'm racist when Brent is the one that wants to fly the flag of the CSA and go back to owning his very own Toby.
Re: What the Fark???
I don't wanna fly that hick flag. I'm surprised you don't have one hanging in the back of your pickup window with your trailer hitch balls hanging in the breeze.
I don't see how people can think I'm racist when Brent is the one that wants to fly the flag of the CSA and go back to owning his very own Toby.
I don't wanna fly that hick flag. I'm surprised you don't have one hanging in the back of your pickup window with your trailer hitch balls hanging in the breeze.
bigblue_dl
Armed
Re: What the Fark???
I already said, I'm not from the south, I see no reason to fly that flag. We don't do it like that where I'm from. And you know I don't have bull balls hanging off my bumper. I do have bull balls hanging off the back of my bull, though, he's chillin' with the ladies in the pasture back home.
XYZ
Smoking in the selection room.
Re: What the Fark???
I'm no Skynyrd aficionado, but that's interesting considering they used as a stage backdrop for at least a few years prior to his death.
I'm no Skynyrd aficionado, but that's interesting considering they used as a stage backdrop for at least a few years prior to his death.
Re: What the Fark???
http://www.boston.com/news/educatio...eaves_class_jumps_to_his_death/?camp=obinsite
http://www.boston.com/news/educatio...eaves_class_jumps_to_his_death/?camp=obinsite
zamboni crash-test dummy
avoiding 72% of all shopping carts
Re: What the Fark???
for my fellow history buffs:
Bizarre plan to defeat Hitler by turning him into a woman revealed
for my fellow history buffs:
Bizarre plan to defeat Hitler by turning him into a woman revealed
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