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Welcome folks, to the Biden administration!

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Kepler said:
Rural communities are included in flyover country, regardless of state.

The only notable distinction of flyover from civilized America is in flyover even the cities are hayseed.

That is their charm.
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Have you ever been to Chicago or Minneapolis?
 
dxmnkd316 said:
My point is, you don’t acknowledge the Twitter Left. You refuse to even believe they exist. The hallmark of the TL is an absence of any sort of detente. They don’t acknowledge that things won’t get done as long as Republicans are in charge. They assume we can run hard left candidates from the coasts in any locale and win because of progressive politics alone.

The keplerian left, I think, is harder to define since they aren’t the boisterous type. I think they tend to understand the reality they live in. There has to be a “but”, but I’m struggling to give it definition. The Twitter Left is easy because they’re basically the left’s version of Trumpists.

The odd thing is, and my point, is that they are both very closely aligned in their goals.
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I assume the Twitter Left is like the Parler Right: they are out there, they are loud, they are idiots, and for every one of them there are 9 imitators, trolls, and bots playing up to it.

All the rest of my "animosity" towards Left-Centrists is a bit. It is typical of the True Left that we understand we need a coalition of the Center Left and True Left or the Right will divide and conquer. Sadly, the Center Left is all too frequently selfish and ignores this for easy LOLs (and the Right divides and conquers).

The opposition of Purist Marxist Warriors vs The Bourgeoise Liberals last had actual currency at the Third Internationale in 1919. Since then it has been a bludgeon the Right uses to harm us both and unfortunately too many simps fall for it.
 
Kepler said:
I assume the Twitter Left is like the Parler Right: they are out there, they are loud, they are idiots, and for every one of them there are 9 imitators, trolls, and bots playing up to it.

All the rest of my "animosity" towards Left-Centrists is a bit. It is typical of the True Left that we understand we need a coalition of the Center Left and True Left or the Right will divide and conquer. Sadly, the Center Left is all too frequently selfish and ignores this for easy LOLs (and the Right divides and conquers).

The opposition of Purist Marxist Warriors vs The Bourgeoise Liberals last had actual currency at the Third Internationale in 1919. Since then it has been a bludgeon the Right uses to harm us both and unfortunately too many simps fall for it.
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You could be correct about the Parler Right. But how did trump get 70 million votes? The Parler Right is the base.
 
dxmnkd316 said:
You could be correct about the Parler Right. But how did trump get 70 million votes? The Parler Right is the base.
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Just like how did Biden get 84 million votes. That vanguard is a tiny portion of the total mass.

Now, there do seem to be more balls deep nuts on the Right than the Left. Certainly the ratio of people who would actually murder for their beliefs is north of 1000 : 1 as a ratio of Right : Left. The Jesus Nonsense helps explain that. Dopes have always been more dangerous when they mix in magical delusions and other "spiritual" schizophrenia.
 
dxmnkd316 said:
I laughed

This is probably all part of your Midwest bit, which is funny, but what is your quantitative definition of a city?
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Someplace unpleasant.

Minneapolis, by all accounts, is just too nice a place to live to count as a city. c.f. Portland.

Conversely, any time more than 3 people congregate in Massachusetts that counts as a city.

1 if he is from BC.
 
Kepler said:
You are a Centrist. Tell me how you feel about UBI, Reparations, defunding the cops, and nationalizing the energy sector.

I am also far more "in touch" with the Left than you are. What age has to do with it is anybody's guess -- I guess you just run dry of insults that were germane and had to cast around for something to make you feel witty.

Now run along to NPR and Rachel Maddow since they make you feel Left without ever having to change your lifestyle.
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(dont listen to NPR or watched Maddow in years...but hey keep watching Chuck Todd cause that makes you a Lefty ;^) )

Well lets see...talking points with no context to try and prove a false narrative because you think, wrongly of course, that you have any idea where "The Center" is and whether I occupy it. Sounds about right for you...funny thing is you defend "Centrists" way more than I do.

Do I support UBI as it is being discussed right now outside of the Pandemic? Not right now. It is untenable for now. You know it and I know it. (not to mention it is not a winnable idea in politics yet but will be a lot sooner than before because of the Pandemic) For the Pandemic I have been in favor of $2000 payments monthly since almost Day 1. I think UBI is the future of how things will work and have no problem with my taxes going up to do it if the right people are put in charge of figuring it out and implementing it. (i.e. Not Andrew Yang) The safety net has been so damaged it is not enough and since making a livable wage is apparently tantamount to Karl Marx taking over the country something needs to change. I just dont think it can...yet. But when it does you wont see me fighting it. I might question if it hurts a platform, but I support the idea.

Reparations. Well again there is more to this topic than just yes/no. I am all for Reparations but it has to be part of a method by which the Black Community is not just given wealth, but that their community is lifted out of the crap we lay upon them. It should be a part of a long term generational change. There should be retirement accounts and access to funds to start businesses and buy homes. College funds, upgrading inner city schools, access to better technologies and so on. We need to use Reparations (I would change the name since it is toxic to many) to end the cycle of poverty and yes...I am all for chipping in for that. If you mean just handing them a set amount of cash so to speak then no. Then we arent helping them, in fact we are only going to make it worse. We owe them way more than any dollar amount could ever fix.

Defund The Cops. Are you bleeping serious? All summer Hovey tried his hand at being witty mocking me because I 100% support what Minneapolis is trying to do. The current policing model is a joke. Unlike you though I understand that the term "Defund the Cops" is a loser in many districts. The Dems have zero ability to market an idea let alone have a real message. They let others define their positions and that is why it always fails. I think if you asked people they would say they support taking certain issues off the cops plates and throwing money at ways to solve those problems without jailing people. They don't support Defunding the Cops though even though it is the exact same thing. (there is always going to be police) I will always support radical change until it happens.

No I am not for nationalizing oil. I never claimed to be a full on socialist. This proves what I said though if I am Centrist because I am not a to the Left of Bernie then the Overton Window has shifted and you should be happy. I am for socialized medicine, free education and many other things but I see no reason to push that far. I would rather spend the time having the government highly subsidize green tech so oil becomes less attractive.

So yeah just call me Joe Manchin because we are so close on so many issues. Sure I vote for Ilhan Omar even in her Primaries and support AOC for SOTH within 2 years but obviously they are just Centrists too amirite? This is the problem with the hardliners like you (or the Berners on Twitter) they ignore that just because some of us choose to speak with nuance about an idea doesn't mean we arent on the same page. You always assume that because with you it isnt really a discussion. You are going to get your talking points out, you are going to assume that whoever you are discussing it with knows less than you and has the wrong opinion. That is fine I get it. But just because you think Bernie is barely Left of Center doesn't mean that is how things are in the real world.

tl;dr: Next time save me 20 minutes and just read my actual posts ;^)
 
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dxmnkd316 said:
My point is, you don’t acknowledge the Twitter Left. You refuse to even believe they exist. The hallmark of the TL is an absence of any sort of detente. They don’t acknowledge that things won’t get done as long as Republicans are in charge. They assume we can run hard left candidates from the coasts in any locale and win because of progressive politics alone.

The keplerian left, I think, is harder to define since they aren’t the boisterous type. I think they tend to understand the reality they live in. There has to be a “but”, but I’m struggling to give it definition. The Twitter Left is easy because they’re basically the left’s version of Trumpists.

The odd thing is, and my point, is that they are both very closely aligned in their goals.
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I think it would be easier if Trixie were still around. I mean there was a point where Trix was even attacking Kep for not being Looney Left enough. Kep keeps to the more palatable of the far left areas...he doesn't venture past where the busses don't go...where they look at Mother Jones and say "good lord just vote for Trump you DINO!!". Trix used to love posting that crap...or ripping it off in his posts anyways ;^) (hence me being a Warmongerer, a Conservadem amongst other names he cribbed that were hilariously false)

Even some of the people I used to love like Shaun King have gone off the rails. He was actively trying to get people not to vote for Biden even after Bernie was done. Same with Mehdi Hassan who I think is now on MSNBC. They amplify to such levels that it is quite like Parler. They and their followers are more than happy to burn the house down to kill the spider. The Left version of the huckster is no better than the Right.
 
Doesn't really matter. You two can argue till the cows come home. None of it will happen. Our best bet out of Centrist Biden is a diverse cabinet, an EPA that believes in Global Warming, and an admission that $600 checks are a joke.

Beyond that, you're not getting much.

The Future? Future is inevitably single payer health care, UBI, and no fossil fuels except for toys. Either that or death and no more United States. Beyond that, who knows. UBI could be implemented tomorrow. Just takes guts and logic. Which is non-existent in Washington D.C. Hell, it doesn't exist in the United States. There is a reason everyone is dying from Covid here. And it's not "freedom" like Turtle Boy and Dumpie want you to think.

UBI makes so much sense. Social Security is the greatest anti-poverty plan for seniors ever implemented. To expand that to the entire population only makes sense.

As for Maddow. I'm the only one left around here who still believes in her. Handy believes she sold her soul to Chuck Todd and high ratings. Basically the left's new O'Reilly without the sex scandal. That's ok.

My prediction. Will have another Republican President by 2030 and they will pass the largest tax cut in US History. This country never learns. That is the biggest fact of all.
 
No I said she is better than a 2nd rate magazine show. I said she should host Meet the Press because she is infinitely more qualified for the job than Todd is. She is a wonk, her expertise is needed there not fear mongering every issue which is often what her show has become. Put Todd on those shows because he has no ability to actually discuss a topic on its merits. I want her going back and forth with GOPers who lie to her face.
 
Nah, I still like Maddow too. Ditto with Larry O’Donnell.

I don’t think either is the paragon of progressivism. I’m not sure who that person is today, for that matter. Bernie has the policies but doesn’t seem to understand the system or and hires complete morons to run his campaign. It might be AOC, but she doesn’t seem to understand how to bargain (though, I’ll admit that may be an externally created narrative). It might be Katie Porter. Hard to tell because she’s been spending her time nose to the grindstone, massacring morons in front of Congress. it might be Stacey Abrams. She delivered a red state to the party and may just do it again.

Well, I’ve forgotten the point I was going to make but whatever.
 
The benefits of UBI are debatable at best. Reparations should be in the form of swift and sweeping criminal justice reform and minority community investments, not direct monetary payments to affected individuals. The cops should be reformed from top to bottom and require independent oversight. Nationalizing energy is dumb and will result in further delays to the already slow process of modernizing the national grid.
 
Kepler said:
This has been Midwestern Centrists explain the Left.

security-forum-panel-all-male.jpg
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Some hit a little too close to home?
 
FadeToBlack&Gold said:
The benefits of UBI are debatable at best. Reparations should be in the form of swift and sweeping criminal justice reform and minority community investments, not direct monetary payments to affected individuals. The cops should be reformed from top to bottom and require independent oversight. Nationalizing energy is dumb and will result in further delays to the already slow process of modernizing the national grid.
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The benefits of UBI may be debatable but since we cant even raise the minimum wage to match inflation I would say it has more value than you give it credit for.
 
There is always a difference between the morally and intellectually right thing to do and what can pass, particularly in a country with reactionaries.
 
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