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Weaving the Strands: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 2.0

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Re: Weaving the Strands: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 2.0

Still better off living modestly and saving/investing wisely. IMNSHO.

Hopefully nobody argues with this.

My rule of thumb is find out how much of a mortgage the bank qualifies you for and then buy a house that costs 1/3 of that. I had a family of four humans and four cats in a 1300 square foot house and it was excellent. Anything above about 1000 ft sq + 200 ft sq per person you're just p1ssing away to the bank. IMNSHO.
 
Re: Weaving the Strands: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 2.0

II way overbought for what I needed. Only because I was getting a killer rate at the time and housing prices were at rock-bottom. I bought a five-bed, two-bath for myself that had 1,200 aboveground finished and a finished full-size basement. Way too much house. But I knew two things: it was affordable and I could grow into it or sell it without a problem. I have since refinanced it at 2.75% so I have an extremely solid investment.

That being said, I also live within my means and save about 27% of my gross income into retirement accounts. Not even including liquid.
 
Re: Weaving the Strands: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 2.0

Oh, and I completely agree about the bank-approved amounts. They said I could buy a house about 40% more than I thought I could afford.
 
Hopefully nobody argues with this.

My rule of thumb is find out how much of a mortgage the bank qualifies you for and then buy a house that costs 1/3 of that. I had a family of four humans and four cats in a 1300 square foot house and it was excellent. Anything above about 1000 ft sq + 200 ft sq per person you're just p1ssing away to the bank. IMNSHO.

A certain TV family?
 
Re: Weaving the Strands: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 2.0

Hopefully nobody argues with this.

My rule of thumb is find out how much of a mortgage the bank qualifies you for and then buy a house that costs 1/3 of that. I had a family of four humans and four cats in a 1300 square foot house and it was excellent. Anything above about 1000 ft sq + 200 ft sq per person you're just p1ssing away to the bank. IMNSHO.
I live alone, 2,600 ft sq townhome. My mortgage is smaller than any non-ghetto 1,000 ft sq apartment available for rent.
 
Re: Weaving the Strands: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 2.0

You're better off with term life and investing your savings over whole life. The only reason you need life insurance is to protect your family if you are a major income contributor. If you die when you're 80, who cares? Especially if you've done even a half-assed job at saving. You don't need $100,000 of coverage when you're 80. You need a lot of coverage when you have a family and kids to make sure they are taken care of if you die and they lose half or even all of their income.

The main reason to own life insurance is because you love somebody and you care about their well-being. The main reason to own permanent life insurance is because you expect that you will love someone for your entire life. <strike>If you are planning to stop loving your wife and children once you reach age 80, I feel really sorry for you.</strike> [unnecessary snark, sorry]

When people retire, they have to decide how much of their savings to draw down while they are alive, and how much of their savings they need to leave behind to support someone else after they are gone. If you own permanent life insurance, you can draw down more of your savings while you are alive, because the life insurance proceeds will replace those savings after you are dead.

If you own permanent life insurance, you don't have to spend money on term life insurance, which is usually a waste: fewer than 1% of term life insurance companies result in death claims. Term life insurance is the most costly form of life insurance there is, the IRR is almost always -100%. With permanent life insurance, you are generally guaranteed a rate of return of about 3.5% to 5.0% if you live to life expectancy. If you die sooner, the return is higher, if you live longer, the return is only marginally lower.

If you look at who advertises what financial products, the only people who support "buy term and invest the difference" are mutual fund companies. That has nothing to do with sound economics, it is merely a competition over who gets to manage the money, the mutual fund company or the life insurance company.

The rate of return for permanent life insurance is higher than it appears because it lets you do things in your life that you wouldn't be able to do otherwise.
 
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Re: Weaving the Strands: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 2.0

The main reason to own life insurance is because you love somebody and you care about their well-being. The main reason to own permanent life insurance is because you expect that you will love someone for your entire life. If you are planning to stop loving your wife and children once you reach age 80, I feel really sorry for you.

I stopped reading here. This is third rate tripe right there.
 
Re: Weaving the Strands: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 2.0

Term life insurance has its place, but you should really meet a certain list of criteria before making the purchase. If you're an accountant now, but will soon take on a short-term job working an oil rig in NoDak, or as a skydiving instructor anywhere, it could prove to be a smart move.
 
I stopped reading here. This is third rate tripe right there.

If I remember right, fishy is an actuary for an insurance company. He's just doing the corporate sales pitch.

Of course he also pulls that same **** when debating about gay marriage, so maybe he really does believe he loves his family more than anyone else loves theirs.
 
Re: Weaving the Strands: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 2.0

The main reason to own life insurance is because you love somebody and you care about their well-being. The main reason to own permanent life insurance is because you expect that you will love someone for your entire life. If you are planning to stop loving your wife and children once you reach age 80, I feel really sorry for you.

When people retire, they have to decide how much of their savings to draw down while they are alive, and how much of their savings they need to leave behind to support someone else after they are gone. If you own permanent life insurance, you can draw down more of your savings while you are alive, because the life insurance proceeds will replace those savings after you are dead.

If you own permanent life insurance, you don't have to spend money on term life insurance, which is usually a waste: fewer than 1% of term life insurance companies result in death claims. Term life insurance is the most costly form of life insurance there is, the IRR is almost always -100%. With permanent life insurance, you are generally guaranteed a rate of return of about 3.5% to 5.0% if you live to life expectancy. If you die sooner, the return is higher, if you live longer, the return is only marginally lower.

If you look at who advertises what financial products, the only people who support "buy term and invest the difference" are mutual fund companies. That has nothing to do with sound economics, it is merely a competition over who gets to manage the money, the mutual fund company or the life insurance company.

The rate of return for permanent life insurance is higher than it appears because it lets you do things in your life that you wouldn't be able to do otherwise.

I took a personal finance class in high school 2 years ago, with the curriculum written by Dave Ramsey specifically for young, stupid high schoolers like I was. He recommended term life over whole. The reasoning was that you should (hopefully) have enough money saved in retirement by age 45-50+ that can go to dependents to live off of should you die unexpectedly. And by that age, your children are (hopefully) out of the house. Sure, you lose your money by living past the term, but the point of life insurance is to ensure emergency cash for loved ones, not an investment where the payoff goes to your estate.
 
Re: Weaving the Strands: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 2.0

Bingo. He just doesn't understand that most basic of concepts
 
Re: Weaving the Strands: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 2.0

I understand why you'd want to get something in return for paying into life insurance for 20-30 years while you absolutely need it, but it's a complete waste past age 50 or so.
 
Re: Weaving the Strands: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 2.0

I understand why you'd want to get something in return for paying into life insurance for 20-30 years while you absolutely need it, but it's a complete waste past age 50 or so.

The closest I've ever come to getting into a fight was with a guy in a bar who was trying to sell another patron on getting life insurance on his baby. "It's a great nest egg; it develops good habits" These people should be tarred, feathered, and run out of town on a rail. They're Glengarry Glen Ross without the charm.

Life insurance is only relevant if your present income is necessary to the support of dependents. This statement:

The main reason to own permanent life insurance is because you expect that you will love someone for your entire life. If you are planning to stop loving your wife and children once you reach age 80, I feel really sorry for you.

is the dumbest, most cynical bunch of garbage anyone has ever put on the Forum. Once again: people here are too smart for this crap -- take it back to Redstate where they're stupid and will lap it up.
 
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Re: Weaving the Strands: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 2.0

I took a personal finance class in high school 2 years ago, with the curriculum written by Dave Ramsey specifically for young, stupid high schoolers like I was. He recommended term life over whole. The reasoning was that you should (hopefully) have enough money saved in retirement by age 45-50+ that can go to dependents to live off of should you die unexpectedly. And by that age, your children are (hopefully) out of the house. Sure, you lose your money by living past the term, but the point of life insurance is to ensure emergency cash for loved ones, not an investment where the payoff goes to your estate.

One of the worst things that the life insurance industry ever did was to develop the concept of "needs" analysis. It is merely a cynical manipulative ploy to convince people that they "should" buy life insurance and then try to guilt-trip them into buying more.

The only question that matters (just like any other consideration) is: how much is your life worth? Like any other insurance purchase, most of the time people would want full replacement value.

One can see here how deeply that cynical manipulation has clouded people's thinking. If your home burns down, do you say, "don't replace it, I don't really need that much house after all." ? If your car is totaled, do you say, "don't replace it, I didn't really need that much car."?

If something has value, one insures that value against loss. If you want to tell me that you don't want to value your life very highly, that's one thing. If you are saying, yes my life has value, I just don't want to pay the premiums required to insure it, that's a different thing entirely. Please don't turn a reluctance to pay premiums into some contorted argument that you don't "need" insurance. Life insurance should never be about need, it should be about value. It's the repulsive life insurance industry sales practices, combined with people's resentment at being manipulated, that clouds the conversation.

In the short run, term insurance has the lowest premium for the greatest benefit, but that is only in the short run.

The problem is not at all how much life insurance one "should" want to own, the problem simply reduces down to not wanting to pay the premiums for the amount of insurance that is appropriate.


There is a simple formula: in your 20s and 30s, it is 20 times earned income, in your 40s it is 15 times earned income, and in your 50s and early 60s it is 10 times earned income.
 
Re: Weaving the Strands: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 2.0

What amazes me the most in any conversation about life insurance is the two-faced attitude of trial attorneys.

If someone dies in an accident, they will sue the person responsible for full replacement value.

If someone dies from some other cause, why should the family settle for anything less than full replacement value merely because there is no one to sue?
 
Re: Weaving the Strands: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 2.0

I understand why you'd want to get something in return for paying into life insurance for 20-30 years while you absolutely need it, but it's a complete waste past age 50 or so.

Really? I'd love to leave a legacy for my family. and if they are all really successful, then I'd really love to endow a charitable foundation.

It's not about how much insurance you "need" to own, it's merely about how to pay for the amount of insurance you want.
 
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