WCHA Thread III

[JosephPSchmoe]

Re: WCHA Thread III

Never mind. I think I'm getting ahead of myself. But six points and a sweep is still sweet.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: WCHA Thread III

I saw something today that I've never seen before. A two assist goal was called unassisted. The goal was scored from the slot on a perfect tape-to-tape pass by a skater coming out of the corner who had received a pass from behind the net. It, for description sake, was definition of a perfect set-up. Maybe four zebras aren't enough.

Errors of this nature can be corrected later and often are. I wasn't at the game and don't even know which of the two goals you're referring to. But on the scoresheet, (as posted by both schools) both St. Cloud goals have two assists awarded.

It's impossible to know from afar who caused the initial error. Maybe the PA guy announced unassisted when the assists were still being reviewed. Or, the call may have been changed.

Also, you should be aware that at most schools, assists are called in the Press Box, not on the ice. I don't know how things are done at St. Cloud. Still, the "zebras" are likely innocent on this one...

 

[ARM]

WCHA Standings at a Glance

WCHA Standings at a Glance

This is the current picture with all teams having six games remaining:

1st Wisconsin (58 points) -- the Badgers eventual coronation has been a foregone conclusion for a few weeks now. Their games can still impact the standings, as they have series remaining with Bemidji and North Dakota.

2nd Minnesota (42 points) -- the Gophers control their own destiny for the second seed, and they will maintain it if they can take 16 points of the remaining 18 points in series vs SCSU, vs BSU, and @UND.

3rd North Dakota (41 points) -- the Sioux also control their fate in the fight for second. Seventeen points would keep them ahead of UMD no matter what the 'Dogs do, but NoDak closes with a tough month, @OSU, @UW, and vs UM.

4th Minnesota-Duluth (39 points) -- the Bulldogs look to have a good shot at finishing second if they can run the table while both Minnesota and NoDak lose once. Their remaining series are against the current bottom three, @MSU, @OSU, and vs SCSU.

5th Bemidji State (35 points) -- as it did last year, Tomcikova's ill-timed national team commitment may have dealt a serious blow to the Beavers' hopes of a home-ice quarter. Losing two essentially one-goal games last weekend w/o their top netminder increased the likelihood of a second-division finish. Last year, when they dropped to sixth, it worked out okay for them because they wound up with a winnable first-round matchup at St. Cloud. Any potential road destination this year figures to be tougher, but they do have at least one win against each of the teams they are likely to see. Bemidji State closes vs UW, @UM, and vs OSU.

6th Ohio State (28 points) -- while the Buckeyes don't control their destiny by any means, but with series remaining against the three teams immediately in front of them, they at least have an outside shot at home ice. Their best bet would figure to be if UND and BSU struggle. The Buckeyes' remaining series are vs UND, vs UMD, and @BSU.

7th Minnesota State (19 points) -- the Mavericks have been mathematically eliminated from hosting, but they still have a chance at moving up to sixth. Given they just won their first game since early November, that figures to be a long shot. MSU's remaining series are vs UMD, @SCSU, and vs UW.

8th St. Cloud State (2 points) -- the Huskies' only goal at this point is claiming that elusive first win. Remaining games are @UM, vs MSU, and @UMD.

 

[high slot]

Re: WCHA Thread III

Errors of this nature can be corrected later and often are. I wasn't at the game and don't even know which of the two goals you're referring to. But on the scoresheet, (as posted by both schools) both St. Cloud goals have two assists awarded.

It's impossible to know from afar who caused the initial error. Maybe the PA guy announced unassisted when the assists were still being reviewed. Or, the call may have been changed.

Also, you should be aware that at most schools, assists are called in the Press Box, not on the ice. I don't know how things are done at St. Cloud. Still, the "zebras" are likely innocent on this one...

I brought this up because it was so odd that a bang, bang, bang goal be announced as unassisted, under any circumstances. Obviously, assists are goofed up all the time, but generally corrected -- and often times announced after the correction. This was not. I'm not trying to make a huge deal about this -- it was interesting how many people were talking about it after the period. The gist was generally about the quality of the officiating -- something we hear discussed a lot.


I don't agree that assists are called from the press box. Generally, the ref skates to the announcer and states something like #5 from #11 and #12. The scoring may be reviewed from the press box, especially if there is something in question. Maybe I'm wrong. Anyone?

 

[ARM]

Re: WCHA Thread III

I don't agree that assists are called from the press box. Generally, the ref skates to the announcer and states something like #5 from #11 and #12. The scoring may be reviewed from the press box, especially if there is something in question. Maybe I'm wrong. Anyone?

Exactly how it works probably varies with the size of the operation. The first time I went to a game in Bemidji several years ago, they announced the wrong goal scorer on 3 of the first 4 goals. They didn't have much for support staff or even room for them in the press box, so those people had to do many functions at the same time: stats, shot charts, +/- for both teams, etc. Maybe the PA guy was winging it based on what he saw from ice level. Now they have a new rink, state-of-the-art facilities, they run a first-class operation, and the press box has video to look at and make sure they get it right. It still may be announced wrong initially for those cases where it is tough to say whether or not it was tipped, if it went off an offensive or defensive player, or if the puck was already over the line when a teammate gave it another whack. I'd assume that you're right and the referee offers up a scoring line, but I'd guess the extent they go by that versus what the press box says varies from place to place. In terms of the referees priorities on the play, I'm sure getting the assists right are pretty far down the list.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: WCHA Thread III

I brought this up because it was so odd that a bang, bang, bang goal be announced as unassisted, under any circumstances. Obviously, assists are goofed up all the time, but generally corrected -- and often times announced after the correction. This was not. I'm not trying to make a huge deal about this -- it was interesting how many people were talking about it after the period. The gist was generally about the quality of the officiating -- something we hear discussed a lot.

Yes, of course that's the gist; that's exactly why I posted. From my vantage point, you were criticizing the refs for something that isn't even their call. But read on...

I don't agree that assists are called from the press box. Generally, the ref skates to the announcer and states something like #5 from #11 and #12. The scoring may be reviewed from the press box, especially if there is something in question. Maybe I'm wrong. Anyone?

Well, you're wrong; but maybe I'm wrong too. Perhaps there is no general pattern.

Let me tell you what I know. I have direct knowledge of how things are done at 5 Men's D-1 programs. 5 for 5, assists are called from the Press Box. For the Ohio State Women, assists are called from the Press Box. The procedure is that the ref skates over to the PA Announcer with the Goal Scorer's number. That's vitally important, especially on tip plays. But assists are generally easier to call from upstairs. Assuming you're adequately staffed, that's how it should be done.

I've long assumed that this was the standard across D-1 Hockey. The procedure you describe is familiar to me --from youth hockey and good rec leagues. But perhaps it's hit and miss even at D-1, depending on staffing levels.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: WCHA Thread III

In terms of the referees priorities on the play, I'm sure getting the assists right are pretty far down the list.

Exactly correct. I'll go the next step further. At the elite level, it's an inappropriate distraction for the on-ice refs. Not only is it easier to call assists from upstairs, the refs shouldn't be wasting an ounce of energy on the task.

Still, I do understand that lack of resources sometimes prevents things from being done in an ideal way.

 

[high slot]

Re: WCHA Thread III

Well, you're wrong;

What else is new?

Thanks for your help with this, you seem very knowledgeable.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: WCHA Thread III

What else is new?

Thanks for your help with this, you seem very knowledgeable.

Appreciate that. But rest assured that all of us are constantly learning. One of the cool things about being a member of USCHO is the opportunity to learn how things are done elsewhere.

 

[WCHFan]

Re: WCHA Thread III

I will add that it's NEVER going to be the same with different levels, refs etc. I also feel strongly that star players will get the benefit of the mystery point from time to time.

Let's also add that we've all seen the mystery shots on goal. Sometimes it's almost comical.

Teams want the kid's/programs to get noticed. It's happens far more at the high school and AAA levels.

I guess it's a part of the game.

 

[brookyone]

Re: WCHA Thread III

Obviously, another big weekend for some in the battle for positioning in the standings...with time winding down.

http://www.wcha.com/women/presarch/201102/feb1wcw.php

 

[Nuetral zone 08]

Re: WCHA Thread III

Heres a prime example. Check out the box score for ND vs UMD on Sat. Dec. 11th. ND 2nd goal scored by J. Lamoreux asst. by Dageanis. Dagenanis #22 was sitting on the bench and got credit for the asst. If you look for who was on the ice for ND there is no #22. This has happened a few times and has never been corrected. So it does happen quite often!

 

[ARM]

Re: WCHA Thread III

ND 2nd goal scored by J. Lamoreux asst. by Dageanis. Dagenanis #22 was sitting on the bench and got credit for the asst. If you look for who was on the ice for ND there is no #22.

I have seen this happen in the past when the box score was accurate -- a player makes a pass and then goes off on a line change, gets the assist, but not the plus. Other times, somebody just enters the wrong number. Two years ago, a player showed up as having the 2nd assist on a goal while serving a minor penalty. In that particular case, the cause was the press box staff inserting the wrong number for the penalized player in the box score. Mistakes do happen, but I believe they are for the most part honest mistakes.

 

[high slot]

Re: WCHA Thread III

We've all seen missed assists, assists that wen't to the wrong player, assists that went to kids not even on the ice, etc. I wouldn't have commented on one of those situations because they happen often enough. IMO what separated this situation was that there was a perfectly set up goal that was called unassisted. There was no scrum in front of the net, the puck did not deflect off of anything or anyone -- a chimp would have seen at least the second pass. Whether the assists are called on the ice, upstairs, or by the man in the moon, again, what separated this was how the goal scorer got the puck. It couldn't have been more obvious. It was just strange. For what it's worth, the two assists were eventually accurately credited.

 

[WCHFan]

Re: WCHA Thread III

It's my understanding that they will aways review goals at intermssion and correct if needed. They will still get it wrong though. I guess it's part of the game.

 

[brookyone]

Re: WCHA Thread III

http://www.wcha.com/women/presarch/201102/feb2wpw.php

With a discussion of various arenas and associated attendance for women's hockey...will the two newest WCHA venues be in the mix for future WCHA tournaments?

 

[ARM]

Re: WCHA Thread III

http://www.wcha.com/women/presarch/201102/feb2wpw.php

With a discussion of various arenas and associated attendance for women's hockey...will the two newest WCHA venues be in the mix for future WCHA tournaments?

Bemidji's new rink would work well otherwise, but it is not the most accessible for either teams or fans. Still, it would be nice if the league tried it out one time; hopefully in a year when the Beavers have a strong team and a good shot at making it to the second weekend.

The last time Duluth hosted a Frozen Four -- which they do next year -- they also had the Final Face-Off, so my guess would be that they will again next season. The problem with doing that is it kind of steals the thunder from the Frozen Four if you get many of the same teams back again two weeks later.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: WCHA Thread III

...The last time Duluth hosted a Frozen Four -- which they do next year -- they also had the Final Face-Off, so my guess would be that they will again next season. The problem with doing that is it kind of steals the thunder from the Frozen Four if you get many of the same teams back again two weeks later.

Agreed.

Duluth has hosted well in the past; they really don't need a dress rehearsal. Well, with a new building, maybe. But both the Final Face-Off and the Frozen Four deserve to be the biggest Women's tournament of the year in their respective localities. Hosting both tournaments at the same site place inevitably compromises that objective.

 

[binnyrus]

Re: WCHA Thread III

I probably missed whatever conversation, if any, regarding the Parizek (ND) extra penalization (is that a word?) resulting from a checking penalty at the end of the MSU series. Sorry if I missed it but please direct me to the conversation or take a minute say more about what happened there. Wow, pretty severe consequence.

 

[skatefast]

Re: WCHA Thread III

I probably missed whatever conversation, if any, regarding the Parizek (ND) extra penalization (is that a word?) resulting from a checking penalty at the end of the MSU series. Sorry if I missed it but please direct me to the conversation or take a minute say more about what happened there. Wow, pretty severe consequence.

I don't know the details of this particular situation, but if I'm not mistaken, if you incur a 10 minute major/game ejection at the very end of the game, it transfers over to the next game. An additional game suspension is pretty severe, so it is concerning. Not to take any responsibility away from the players involved, but I certainly hope this isn't a case of the refs letting the game get out of hand as we occasionally see.