WCHA 2015-16: So here's what we think that we know...

[jdmaxim23]

Re: WCHA 2015-16: So here's what we think that we know...

Been looking at this. From a fan and travel perspective (probably attendance as well) wouldn't it make the most sense to have the following:

WCHA
UAA, UA, UAH, BGSU, Ferris, LSSU, Miami, MTU, NMU, WMU and ASU + a TBD (AHA team?)

NCHC
CC, Bemidji, Denver, Mankato, North Dakota, UMD, UNO and St. Cloud

Doubt the league talking heads would go with it but again, think it does a nice job saving a few bucks on travel and gets back a few more rivalries that make sense. ASU doesn't help on the travel side but I do think for where they are at in their stage of development, the WCHA makes the most sense.

This idea makes too much sense... therefore it will have to be overlooked

From a BSU fan living in one of the NaCHO cities, I would love to see this (granted I could care less about seeing Denver and CC and would rather see MTU and UAH) but I know wherever UND goes, so does Denver and CC. I attend some of these NaCHO games and from my perspective Miami and WMU bring absolutely nothing to the table for additional attendance or atmosphere. Grouping the MN teams makes sense because they all do travel well, especially within the state. Maybe throw in an Alaska team to be able to get an additional 2 home games a year plus Air Force (or whoever) to round out at 10.

In my opinion, the biggest obstacle on this is EGO... the Nacho teams (specifically UND and Denver) would have to basically admit their super conference from Coast to Coast never materialized as they promised. Are they stacked with good teams? yes... but eventually the cost of travelling and lost attendance of certain teams is going to start to bring up deeper issues.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: WCHA 2015-16: So here's what we think that we know...

It would be even better if UA_, UAA, DU, CC, ASU and a couple other western teams could create their own conference.

 

[davyd83]

That's it. MTU and NMU to Division 1 and the Horizon League immediately.



*edit* And I'm almost not kidding about that. Just running the mileage numbers, the average distance from Marquette to all GLIAC members is 457.8 miles. Median mileage is 460.0. If NMU straight up moved to the Horizon League, the average distance to all HL members is 479.6 (+21.8 miles from GLIAC), but the median mileage drops to 445.0 (-15.0 from GLIAC). If Tech moves with NMU to also become full D1 everything in the Horizon League, distance from NMU to HL members is now 444.9 (-12.9 from GLIAC) and the median mileage drops to 439.0 (-21.0 from GLIAC).


Basically, it would be a wash for NMU. AND: they could tap more into the Green Bay alumni market than just hockey, opens up Chicago more (where they already recruit from), ability to still greet alumni in the Detroit area with Horizon League championship in JLA (and future Detroit District Arena) (similar to old CCHA JLA days).

Honestly... Get it done Forrest Karr: NMU to the Horizon League for 2017-18.


*edit 2* Well, Horizon League doesn't sponsor Football, and I'm not looking to axe that program (that would save a TON of scholarship money, but also throw Title IX flags up everywhere). So, associate membership into a football conference would have to be done for NMU. Maybe Associate in Missouri Valley Football Conference? Mid-American Conference? If it's MAC, might as well explore just joining them outright.

Don't forget that a number of the Ohio schools and Hillsdale are leaving the GLIAC plus the higher costs associated with D-1 including more scholarships and higher coaches salaries.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: WCHA 2015-16: So here's what we think that we know...

That's it. MTU and NMU to Division 1 and the Horizon League immediately.



*edit* And I'm almost not kidding about that. Just running the mileage numbers, the average distance from Marquette to all GLIAC members is 457.8 miles. Median mileage is 460.0. If NMU straight up moved to the Horizon League, the average distance to all HL members is 479.6 (+21.8 miles from GLIAC), but the median mileage drops to 445.0 (-15.0 from GLIAC). If Tech moves with NMU to also become full D1 everything in the Horizon League, distance from NMU to HL members is now 444.9 (-12.9 from GLIAC) and the median mileage drops to 439.0 (-21.0 from GLIAC).


Basically, it would be a wash for NMU. AND: they could tap more into the Green Bay alumni market than just hockey, opens up Chicago more (where they already recruit from), ability to still greet alumni in the Detroit area with Horizon League championship in JLA (and future Detroit District Arena) (similar to old CCHA JLA days).

Honestly... Get it done Forrest Karr: NMU to the Horizon League for 2017-18.


*edit 2* Well, Horizon League doesn't sponsor Football, and I'm not looking to axe that program (that would save a TON of scholarship money, but also throw Title IX flags up everywhere). So, associate membership into a football conference would have to be done for NMU. Maybe Associate in Missouri Valley Football Conference? Mid-American Conference? If it's MAC, might as well explore just joining them outright.

Cutting football would not be a Title IX issue at all, having too many scholarships to women is never a problem for the NCAA.

 

[manurespreader]

Re: WCHA 2015-16: So here's what we think that we know...

Well given that BGSU wants to stay and the D1 issues, then maybe the next best thing is what the Commish suggested. Grow the league , especially near to BG, and maybe after a while the far western schools will be sorted out.
I still think with Duluth being so close to NMU and MTU, it makes sense for them to be in the same league. I would not want to lose Bemidji though. I like them sticking it in UND's eye every year. In fact I pretty much like all our members. Even Huntsville.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: WCHA 2015-16: So here's what we think that we know...

Well given that BGSU wants to stay and the D1 issues, then maybe the next best thing is what the Commish suggested. Grow the league , especially near to BG, and maybe after a while the far western schools will be sorted out.
I still think with Duluth being so close to NMU and MTU, it makes sense for them to be in the same league. I would not want to lose Bemidji though. I like them sticking it in UND's eye every year. In fact I pretty much like all our members. Even Huntsville.

Except UMD has SCSU and UND "near by" which isn't a whole lot different for them then MTU and NMU.

 

[aparch]

Re: WCHA 2015-16: So here's what we think that we know...

Don't forget that a number of the Ohio schools and Hillsdale are leaving the GLIAC plus the higher costs associated with D-1 including more scholarships and higher coaches salaries.

Didn't know there was a split happening. That changes the numbers quite a bit then.


As the previous information stood, taking a very high level pass over the financial side of things:
All Sports, Average Coach Salary reported for 2014: (HC = Head Coach, AC = Assistant Coach)
NMU: (5) Men HC - $83,877; (8) Women HC - $38,201; (14) Men AC - $25,946; (15) Women AC - $10,347
UW-GB: (7) Men HC - $49,700; (9) Women HC - $37,480; (8) Men AC - $35,562; (10) Women AC - $24,822
UW-MKE: (5) Men HC - $134,522; (6) Women HC - $56,747; (15) Men AC - $26,122; (16) Women AC - $21,476
UIC: (7) Men HC - $99,478; (9) Women HC - $71,064; (11) Men AC - $59,429; (14) Women AC - $34,059
NKU: (6) Men HC - $57,761; (7) Women HC - $55,859; (8) Men AC - $33,337; (13) Women AC - $25,874

My opinion, NMU is in the median for the Horizon League. Except for their women's assistant coaches. That's downright criminal what NMU is paying. It's an average of just eight months of minimum wage.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: WCHA 2015-16: So here's what we think that we know...

Didn't know there was a split happening. That changes the numbers quite a bit then.


As the previous information stood, taking a very high level pass over the financial side of things:
All Sports, Average Coach Salary reported for 2014: (HC = Head Coach, AC = Assistant Coach)
NMU: (5) Men HC - $83,877; (8) Women HC - $38,201; (14) Men AC - $25,946; (15) Women AC - $10,347
UW-GB: (7) Men HC - $49,700; (9) Women HC - $37,480; (8) Men AC - $35,562; (10) Women AC - $24,822
UW-MKE: (5) Men HC - $134,522; (6) Women HC - $56,747; (15) Men AC - $26,122; (16) Women AC - $21,476
UIC: (7) Men HC - $99,478; (9) Women HC - $71,064; (11) Men AC - $59,429; (14) Women AC - $34,059
NKU: (6) Men HC - $57,761; (7) Women HC - $55,859; (8) Men AC - $33,337; (13) Women AC - $25,874

My opinion, NMU is in the median for the Horizon League. Except for their women's assistant coaches. That's downright criminal what NMU is paying. It's an average of just eight months of minimum wage.

My guess is that women's AC stuff is a bit of deceiving. Those coaches are probably also instructors of some kind at the school, and that probably makes up a decent portion of their salary. That $10,000 number you see is maybe just for the coaching portion. Creative accounting?

 

[JohnsonsJerseys]

Re: WCHA 2015-16: So here's what we think that we know...

League 1: UA, UAA, UND, BSU, MSU, UNO, SCSU, UMD, CC, DU
League 2: MTU, NMU, LSSU, FSU, BGSU, ASU, Miami, WMU, UAH, RMU

It should be noted that these groupings are shown after SCSU was initially passed over by League #1 and SCSU said they were happy to be in League #2 because it was the best fit and they really had no interest in League #1. But they later discovered their invite to League #1 was simply lost in the mail temporarily and then they announced they were thrilled to be in League #1.

Ryan J

 

[Squarebanks]

I'm honestly surprised that the NCHC didn't want an alaska school to help with getting more home games, especially since either school probably would have been willing to subsidize.

UND and DU hated having to go to Alaska. There's no way the nacho was going to take either of us, especially since neither of us spend enough money to keep up with their delusions of grandeur.

That said, DU and UND have both played in Fairbanks since the split. I think it's just the idea that they don't HAVE to go, and split conference revenues with us paupers.

 

[Squarebanks]

It would be even better if UA_, UAA, DU, CC, ASU and a couple other western teams could create their own conference.

I can tell you the feeling up north about other west coast (read: Pac 12) schools possibly adding hockey is cautiously optimistic. The problem is that if too many of them add the sport, the PAC 12 will just sponsor hockey on its own and be done with it.

I've said before to keep an eye on Oregon. They love nothing more than to recklessly spend Uncle Phils's money.

 

[davyd83]

Didn't know there was a split happening. That changes the numbers quite a bit then.


As the previous information stood, taking a very high level pass over the financial side of things:
All Sports, Average Coach Salary reported for 2014: (HC = Head Coach, AC = Assistant Coach)
NMU: (5) Men HC - $83,877; (8) Women HC - $38,201; (14) Men AC - $25,946; (15) Women AC - $10,347
UW-GB: (7) Men HC - $49,700; (9) Women HC - $37,480; (8) Men AC - $35,562; (10) Women AC - $24,822
UW-MKE: (5) Men HC - $134,522; (6) Women HC - $56,747; (15) Men AC - $26,122; (16) Women AC - $21,476
UIC: (7) Men HC - $99,478; (9) Women HC - $71,064; (11) Men AC - $59,429; (14) Women AC - $34,059
NKU: (6) Men HC - $57,761; (7) Women HC - $55,859; (8) Men AC - $33,337; (13) Women AC - $25,874

My opinion, NMU is in the median for the Horizon League. Except for their women's assistant coaches. That's downright criminal what NMU is paying. It's an average of just eight months of minimum wage.

According to the Green Bay Press Gazette, women's BBALL coach Matt Bolant made $150,000. Then Kevin Borseth returned from Michigan where he was pulling down a total package worth around $300,000. He was previously at $119,000 base at UWGB. New UWGB men's coach Linc Darner is getting $230,000 according to the Press Gazette.

 

[aparch]

Re: WCHA 2015-16: So here's what we think that we know...

According to the Green Bay Press Gazette, women's BBALL coach Matt Bolant made $150,000. Then Kevin Borseth returned from Michigan where he was pulling down a total package worth around $300,000. He was previously at $119,000 base at UWGB. New UWGB men's coach Linc Darner is getting $230,000 according to the Press Gazette.

Then, those are *slight* bumps to the numbers.

Fair points, even the recruiting costs and other associated D1 expenses. I was just taking straight up comparisons. I'm sure going Division 1 in all sports has been discussed, and likely tabled because of said expenses. Would be one way to "future proof" being in the WCHA, or a new CCHA, or a new league though.

 

[davyd83]

Then, those are *slight* bumps to the numbers.

Fair points, even the recruiting costs and other associated D1 expenses. I was just taking straight up comparisons. I'm sure going Division 1 in all sports has been discussed, and likely tabled because of said expenses. Would be one way to "future proof" being in the WCHA, or a new CCHA, or a new league though.

It was discussed years ago as Central was moving up, but no serious consideration has been given in decades. There is no chance it will ever happen at NMU. No way we can average the needed 15,000 in football.

 

[gfmorris]

Re: WCHA 2015-16: So here's what we think that we know...

Nothing like a good game of high/low: http://blog.wchaplayoffs.com/2016/02/10/2015-16-wcha-highlow/

In summary:

UAH: 4th-10th (I know, I was surprised about the 4th)
UAA: 4th-10th
UAF: 5th-10th
BSU: 1st-10th
BGSU: 1st-7th
FSU: 1st-9th (they clinch a playoff spot with a Mankato win or tie or tying or winning tomorrow)
LSSU: 1st-10th
MSU: 1st-7th
MTU: 1st-7th
NMU: 1st-10th

This will tighten up significantly with this week's slate of games. MSU should sweep UAH this weekend and maintain the pace in the race for the MacNaughton (+3 on the competition, who would have two games in hand), while NMU-FSU and BSU-LSSU could settle the 4-7 positions (or jumble it even worse). FSU is in the best shape, as a sweep of Northern would put them out of reach (they win at A) and Bemidji has to play hero hockey to get to 4th. On the other end, a bad weekend by LSSU leaves them prone to be passed by Alaska-Anchorage, Alaska, and Alabama-Huntsville, in that order.

Please let me know if you find any mistakes. This is perhaps one week too early to be doing this, as next week every team will have no more than six games left in their schedule.

GFM

 

[pdt1081]

It was discussed years ago as Central was moving up, but no serious consideration has been given in decades. There is no chance it will ever happen at NMU. No way we can average the needed 15,000 in football.

That "average" is very loosely defined. There are many schools currently playing D1 that don't average that many bodies in the stands.

 

[Hammer]

Re: WCHA 2015-16: So here's what we think that we know...

That "average" is very loosely defined. There are many schools currently playing D1 that don't average that many bodies in the stands.

Half-serious question: Did Eastern Michigan draw 15,000 for the season?

 

[davyd83]

That "average" is very loosely defined. There are many schools currently playing D1 that don't average that many bodies in the stands.

The fact that the record crowd at the Superior Dome is just over 9,000 makes that point moot. Besides, NMU does not have a couple million extra budget dollars to elevate even to FCS Status.

 

[net presence]

Re: WCHA 2015-16: So here's what we think that we know...

Lot’s of interesting ideas for sure. Many that make sense for a number of reasons -- especially financial -- both from a cost reduction standpoint (less travel) but also from a revenue generation standpoint (better regional rivalries and a return to easier travel for visiting fans). Still, as a few have pointed out, the NCHC isn’t going to change in any significant way in the next few years. Yes, the “ego” effect is part of it but, FAR more importantly the conference is obviously very successful on the ice. This, in turn, is leading to (at least in general) very solid success at the gate for most of the NCHC schools.
For instance, although a number of you have suggested UMD as a school that would make sense from a geographic standpoint to move into the WCHA, what would the motivation for that be? It’s certainly not from a revenue standpoint. They currently do very well in attendance. However, I can confidently say that, although Tech – and to an equal but probably slightly lesser degree Mankato – would probably be fairly solid draws, especially if they continue to be very competitive, none of the other WCHA schools (to include BSU) would generate the kind of interest that the majority of the NCHC schools currently do and, UMD would see a fairly dramatic drop in average attendance.
Yes, I know, some will point to the recent resurgence in attendance at Tech, BGSU, and Mankato since they’ve become the top teams in the conference and say that, even if Duluth were to switch, as long as Duluth continues to win they’ll continue to draw well. I’m not so sure and here’s why – for Tech and BGSU, it had been so long (decades) since they had been truly relevant on the ice, that it’s only natural that their attendance would spike with the recent level of on ice success, regardless of who they’re playing. Especially for Tech now that they’re playing NMU and LSSU four times a season. As for Mankato, this is the first time they’ve had this level of success since going Div. I. so, again it’s not surprising they’re seeing a significant jump in attendance either.
Not so for UMD. They have, in general, remained very competitive nationally through the years with sporadic but consistent appearances in the NCAA tournament to include a recent national title. Along with having played and established rivalries with UND, DU, SCSU, CC, and UNO. Plus, the last two seasons have seen a healthy rivalry with WMU and Miami begin to really blossom. The point being, their fans are used to being very competitive AND always playing what are considered “top tier” teams. So, if they were to move to the WCHA, I’m pretty confident their average attendance would drop significantly, even if they continued win at a high level. Therefore, I simply don’t see UMD ever considering such a move.
Finally, with BGSU owning the rights to the CCHA name along with that school’s attempt to reach out to other schools about a revamped CCHA prior to accepting the invitation to join the WCHA, I think it’s very prudent of Mr. Robertson and the WCHA to do whatever they can to attract ASU. That way, if BGSU does try to flex its CCHA muscles, the league would still have the needed Division I representation. Still, as Ryan J. states, all of us will probably be the last to know if and when something actually does happen.

 

[jdmaxim23]

Re: WCHA 2015-16: So here's what we think that we know...

Lot’s of interesting ideas for sure. Many that make sense for a number of reasons -- especially financial -- both from a cost reduction standpoint (less travel) but also from a revenue generation standpoint (better regional rivalries and a return to easier travel for visiting fans). Still, as a few have pointed out, the NCHC isn’t going to change in any significant way in the next few years. Yes, the “ego” effect is part of it but, FAR more importantly the conference is obviously very successful on the ice. This, in turn, is leading to (at least in general) very solid success at the gate for most of the NCHC schools.
For instance, although a number of you have suggested UMD as a school that would make sense from a geographic standpoint to move into the WCHA, what would the motivation for that be? It’s certainly not from a revenue standpoint. They currently do very well in attendance. However, I can confidently say that, although Tech – and to an equal but probably slightly lesser degree Mankato – would probably be fairly solid draws, especially if they continue to be very competitive, none of the other WCHA schools (to include BSU) would generate the kind of interest that the majority of the NCHC schools currently do and, UMD would see a fairly dramatic drop in average attendance.
Yes, I know, some will point to the recent resurgence in attendance at Tech, BGSU, and Mankato since they’ve become the top teams in the conference and say that, even if Duluth were to switch, as long as Duluth continues to win they’ll continue to draw well. I’m not so sure and here’s why – for Tech and BGSU, it had been so long (decades) since they had been truly relevant on the ice, that it’s only natural that their attendance would spike with the recent level of on ice success, regardless of who they’re playing. Especially for Tech now that they’re playing NMU and LSSU four times a season. As for Mankato, this is the first time they’ve had this level of success since going Div. I. so, again it’s not surprising they’re seeing a significant jump in attendance either.
Not so for UMD. They have, in general, remained very competitive nationally through the years with sporadic but consistent appearances in the NCAA tournament to include a recent national title. Along with having played and established rivalries with UND, DU, SCSU, CC, and UNO. Plus, the last two seasons have seen a healthy rivalry with WMU and Miami begin to really blossom. The point being, their fans are used to being very competitive AND always playing what are considered “top tier” teams. So, if they were to move to the WCHA, I’m pretty confident their average attendance would drop significantly, even if they continued win at a high level. Therefore, I simply don’t see UMD ever considering such a move.
Finally, with BGSU owning the rights to the CCHA name along with that school’s attempt to reach out to other schools about a revamped CCHA prior to accepting the invitation to join the WCHA, I think it’s very prudent of Mr. Robertson and the WCHA to do whatever they can to attract ASU. That way, if BGSU does try to flex its CCHA muscles, the league would still have the needed Division I representation. Still, as Ryan J. states, all of us will probably be the last to know if and when something actually does happen.

These are very good points and I agree with your thinking that nothing will be changing anytime soon. However, I attend UMD games, and know alot of season ticket holders and I have to disagree with the assessment that attendance or interest is up. BSU, Mankato and Tech games were much better attended with travelling fans then WMU, Miami or CC. People forget that the average UMD fan sees these teams (wcha members) on a regular basis in all UMD sports so its a common opponent.