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Watts up with Hockey Canada?

C

Cpl37

New member
Stealing this topic from another thread (below).

How can, Watts will most likely be the highest scoring player in the history of NCAA Women's hockey, not even be in the top 25 for Hockey Canada??

This doesn't add up. Is she a locker room problem?

It doesn't sound like she is going to look at the Pro teams. Having been in the US for 5+ years can she try out for Team USA? Wouldn't that be the best revenge!




Timothy A
#105
09-23-2021, 06:28 AM
Yes, TDM is pumping out the hockey articles ahead of the weekend. I liked the Watts one, she is done with hockey after this year and is trying to get into Graduate school for real estate @ UW. She told Hockey Canada to go pound sand. I love it.

---
https://madison.com/wsj/sports/colle...761654c2f.html
 
This has been mentioned on a couple of threads with regards to the US and Canada national teams - the fact of the matter is that there is a pool of around 100 players they can pick from and no matter who they pick, it will still boil down to a single game vrs the US and Canada for gold/silver. So there is a lot more than just picking the most talented players that goes into these decisions. And I agree - what the IIHF should allow is for women who either have multiple citizenship or gain another to be immediately eligible for that county's national team. It would spread out the US/Canada talent more and make the international game much more competitive.
 
Cool thread. In comparing just WI players, I have seen Nurse, Turnbull and Clark play hundreds of games in person. Yes all 4 are fine players, but I would take Watts ahead of any one of those 3 (I would also take Roque and Pankowski over those 3). Watts, Roque and Pankowski have the ability to will a team to victory. I have never seen Nurse, Clark or Trunbull do that. I don't get it. In the article it was not said Watts hockey Canada told her she had to improve on so I inquired to TDM. TDM did tweet out that they basically told her she had to improve her game and they did not get specific with her. That part was edited out of the article LOL. These are the same clowns who played a role in driving the best goalie in the history of college hockey into retirement.
 
"Use hockey, don't let hockey use you". Forgot where I heard that saying but very true. The US and Canada national teams have agendas greater than just winning gold. Unless a major upset occurs, everyone knows it is the US vrs Canada for gold and that being a single game basically says it is a coin-toss who will win. Without the pressure of having to compete with the rest of the world and the gold medal game being a 50-50 thing no matter who is on the ice, other agendas take hold. I hope all the women playing in the college game enjoy the time they have in school and make use of the education they receive and are building a life outside of hockey once their college days are done. National team rosters are a personality game, there is no viable pro league and having your dreams crushed along with other career prospects to be decided by a single person or two is no way to live one's life in my opinion.
 
Cornholio said:
This has been mentioned on a couple of threads with regards to the US and Canada national teams - the fact of the matter is that there is a pool of around 100 players they can pick from and no matter who they pick, it will still boil down to a single game vrs the US and Canada for gold/silver. So there is a lot more than just picking the most talented players that goes into these decisions. And I agree - what the IIHF should allow is for women who either have multiple citizenship or gain another to be immediately eligible for that county's national team. It would spread out the US/Canada talent more and make the international game much more competitive.
Click to expand...

Agreed. It is too hard right now for US/Canadians with other citizenships to qualify. You have to play in the country's league for a year before you qualify. That is a real impediment for many players who would otherwise instantly improve those teams and make the women's game much more competitive immediately.
 
Cornholio said:
... what the IIHF should allow is for women who either have multiple citizenship or gain another to be immediately eligible for that county's national team. It would spread out the US/Canada talent more and make the international game much more competitive.
Click to expand...
But would that be good for the long-term growth of the sport?

For example, former UConn player Jessica Lutz competed for Switzerland in 2014 and helped them earn Olympic bronze. What if that was much more widespread, like if 15 players from Canada and the US of German descent all played for Germany in the Olympics and helped them to a medal. Or Italy, whatever. Now that country has a medal, but it also has 15 home-grown players who were squeezed off the national team to make way for some North Americans. Are little girls in that country going to be inspired and want to become hockey players so that maybe some day, they can be the player who gets cut in lieu of an import? Players talk of it being such an honor to pull on the jersey and play for their country. Does it carry the same magic to play for Grandpa's country?

It sounds like what would be better is to have a pro league where the best players, regardless of country, can compete on a big stage. Then the best players have opportunities, while players from more than just a couple of countries have a shot at an Olympic dream.
 
ARM said:
But would that be good for the long-term growth of the sport?

For example, former UConn player Jessica Lutz competed for Switzerland in 2014 and helped them earn Olympic bronze. What if that was much more widespread, like if 15 players from Canada and the US of German descent all played for Germany in the Olympics and helped them to a medal. Or Italy, whatever. Now that country has a medal, but it also has 15 home-grown players who were squeezed off the national team to make way for some North Americans. Are little girls in that country going to be inspired and want to become hockey players so that maybe some day, they can be the player who gets cut in lieu of an import? Players talk of it being such an honor to pull on the jersey and play for their country. Does it carry the same magic to play for Grandpa's country?

It sounds like what would be better is to have a pro league where the best players, regardless of country, can compete on a big stage. Then the best players have opportunities, while players from more than just a couple of countries have a shot at an Olympic dream.
Click to expand...

I see your points but for the sake of discussion I will take the opposite point of view. Do little girls get inspired when their country gets slaughtered and/or doesn't ever qualify for the Olympics or other major tournaments? And also, if a player has citizenship in another country, she is by definition a citizen of that country so why wouldn't she inspire those little girls and she is not an "import". An import as you are using it is a non-citizen player.
 
Rightnut said:
And also, if a player has citizenship in another country, she is by definition a citizen of that country so why wouldn't she inspire those little girls and she is not an "import". An import as you are using it is a non-citizen player.
Click to expand...
Different countries have different criteria for citizenship. I spoke to Lutz around the time of the 2014 Games, and IIRC, her citizenship was through a grandparent, or something to that effect.

My overall point is that it is similar to transfers for HS and college rosters. On the one hand, it is opportunity for someone who is joining the team. I think that most of us support that. But once it becomes too common, it also means that the spots for those already on the team (or in the team's player pool) start to decline.

As with many things, it is a balancing act, and there are both pros and cons to a lot of rule changes. Usually, the real problems surface not because of people following the rules as intended, but those who find loopholes to exploit.
 
Interesting thread. It has to be all hands
on deck for a pro league when the Olympics are over. No true fan of hockey can look at this situation and think it’s healthy. Pretty mature response by Watts
 
Last edited:
Compare the last IIHF women's worlds to the last women's basketball Olympics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basketball_at_the_2020_Summer_Olympics_–_Women's_team_rosters

First, here is a list of all the Olympic qualified teams and rosters. Noticed how many different flags there are for each countries "national" team. The Australian national team had as many Americans on it as Australians. This in a sport that is much more popular internationally than hockey. The women's basketball tournament was much more exciting to follow than the IIHF worlds as there was much more parity among all the teams. Each game counted. Yes, the US was expected to win and was a clear #1 but if the US did not play up to par, it could lose to anyone. I watched these games because the outcome was not a given. I am a hockey fan and TBH the only game I actually watched was the gold medal game as that was the only game that had any real suspense. There was no chance for a group B or other group A team to beat the US or Canada and the round-robin group A games meant nothing. Is this really good for the sport?

The IIHF needs, to save the women's international game, be a lot more flexible in who is allowed to play for what country. I don't think the average little girl in say Italy gives 2-cents about ice hockey at the moment. If the Italian national team started to win and could compete at the international level and get some publicity and at least expose that little girl to the game, that is a far better situation than now. Do you really think she cares if the national team is filled with a bunch of American-Italians and Canadian-Italians? I dobut it. At least she would be aware ice hockey exists if the national team got some press. We should have to move to the US or Canada to develop? Probably but that is better to expand the game than having it be a very niche sport at the moment.

As for a pro league, I think we have taken two steps back with the lastest go. When the only league has decided to drop the "W" from their name and say it is 'for everyone' and not even want to acknowledge that it is a women's league openly anymore (I'm still not sure what the qualifications are to play in this league is), it says to me that even people who had financial incentive in the women's game have punted and are looking to be something else.
 
I should have stated look at where all these women have played outside their country - I am assuming they all had citizenship but 'developed' elsewhere for the basketball games
 
” About Premier Hockey Federation (PHF):
The PHF is the leading source of professional women’s hockey in North America. Established in 2015 as the National Women’s Hockey League, the NWHL rebranded to become the PHF in 2021 and maintains the mission to provide strong role models and fuel the continued growth of the sport.”

They are very much a women’s hockey league and they openly say so. It’s an adjustment for sure with the name change, but just FYI.

im in agreement the international game needs lots of work. I really enjoyed the tourney this summer but by the second period of Canada blowing out the US in prelims, after a week of earlier blowouts, I had seen enough and tuned out until the gold medal game.

As for Watts... need to find the ncaa record book. How close is she to being in there or is she already? Let’s enjoy watching her pass up some folks on an already impressive list
 
Cornholio said:
"Use hockey, don't let hockey use you". Forgot where I heard that saying but very true. The US and Canada national teams have agendas greater than just winning gold. Unless a major upset occurs, everyone knows it is the US vrs Canada for gold and that being a single game basically says it is a coin-toss who will win. Without the pressure of having to compete with the rest of the world and the gold medal game being a 50-50 thing no matter who is on the ice, other agendas take hold. I hope all the women playing in the college game enjoy the time they have in school and make use of the education they receive and are building a life outside of hockey once their college days are done. National team rosters are a personality game, there is no viable pro league and having your dreams crushed along with other career prospects to be decided by a single person or two is no way to live one's life in my opinion.
Click to expand...

THIS

Btw:***
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/09/world/asia/beijing-winter-olympics-covid.html?smid=em-share

And this:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/29/s...pgtype=Article

***Guards in biohazard suits, ready to stop anyone from leaving. Athletes giving interviews from behind plastic walls, speaking through microphones. All-day armpit thermometers, with tiny transmitters to sound the alarm should someone develop a fever.


US-Canada final, aka the Secret™ coin-toss game?
 
Lindsay said:
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/w_icehockey_rb/2021/D1.pdf

last years record book. Watts already has her name in here for points in a season. We’ll see where she ends up on the career points list. If her career was over now she’d be about 14th all time, with 240 points. Nobody new on the list since 2016.
Click to expand...

Correct, magic number entering the year was 64. I think it is already in the 50's. Could be single digits by the end of this weekend :)
 
Cornholio said:
The women's basketball tournament was much more exciting to follow than the IIHF worlds as there was much more parity among all the teams. Each game counted. Yes, the US was expected to win and was a clear #1 but if the US did not play up to par, it could lose to anyone.
Click to expand...
I don't agree with that. The US women's basketball team has won 7 straight Olympic golds and is on a 54-game Olympic winning streak. In hockey, even if the upsets occur rarely, they still happen more often, in part because there are so few scoring plays that one or two plays can turn a game, and there are two dominant teams, not one.

I understand your point, but a different sport, such as soccer, would make a better example.
 
Cpl37 said:
Correct, magic number entering the year was 64. I think it is already in the 50's. Could be single digits by the end of this weekend :)
Click to expand...

holy moly. Didnt realize she had a
five point weekend and I also didn’t realize Merrimack on deck this weekend. Thought you were joking about being in the 50’s already. I did catch the hyperbole on the single digits, lol.

First time Merrimack and Wisc played in history according to the Wisc preview. AND with 4 points Watts would pass Kessel and be in top ten all time. My only hope is they keep it honest and don’t start giving her assists she didn’t really get, at the expense of her teammates. We know this is a thing that happens in sports. Let’s keep it fun...cupcakes and extra season: yes. Phantom assists: no.
 
Lindsay said:
Let’s keep it fun...cupcakes and extra season: yes. Phantom assists: no.
Click to expand...
I think it has to get an asterisk, though. It just isn't apples and apples to put her final numbers next to Agosta's and act like they were compiled similarly.
 
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