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Vermont Hockey: Taking No Prisoners In 2012-2013

Re: Vermont Hockey: Taking No Prisoners In 2012-2013

He will never step foot on UVM's campus. Based on where he is from, he will end up in Major Junior if he is ranked that high.
Not necessarily. Just because he's good, doesn't mean he'll look to go the QMJHL route. He might be thinking outside the box--i.e., something along the lines of getting a U.S. education would be great and I can still get to where I ultimately want to go anyway. I'm not saying he won't renege on his commitment, but I don't think it's a given either. Hopefully he's got some character and won't fall prey to the pressure that's gonna be coming his way.
 
Re: Vermont Hockey: Taking No Prisoners In 2012-2013

Not necessarily. Just because he's good, doesn't mean he'll look to go the QMJHL route. He might be thinking outside the box--i.e., something along the lines of getting a U.S. education would be great and I can still get to where I ultimately want to go anyway. I'm not saying he won't renege on his commitment, but I don't think it's a given either. Hopefully he's got some character and won't fall prey to the pressure that's gonna be coming his way.

At one point Deluca said he wanted to go to college and not major junior that didn't work out. Easy to be skeptical. Not a hard recruitment pitch from QMJHL teams to say why go to UVM where they aren't that good, coach might not be there long when you can have more exposure to the pros in our league, and get paid. Yeah, what I said there is debateable and I don't agree that major junior is necessarily a better path to the pros, but they have that leverage to say it. Still no excuse, and I'll be upset if Sneddon runs to the Free Press again selling us BS and making built in excuses for the team falling off a cliff since 09 if the kid didn't show up. I won't buy that these new players will turn it around. Not with the defensive style and awful power play Sneddon employs. Put up or shut up time. I think this year UVM met expectations they made the playoffs, but still I don't see anything that tells me anything will be different next year. A finish of 6th or worse this coming year, and I say Sneddon has to go.
 
Re: Vermont Hockey: Taking No Prisoners In 2012-2013

At one point Deluca said he wanted to go to college and not major junior that didn't work out. Easy to be skeptical. Not a hard recruitment pitch from QMJHL teams to say why go to UVM where they aren't that good, coach might not be there long when you can have more exposure to the pros in our league, and get paid. Yeah, what I said there is debateable and I don't agree that major junior is necessarily a better path to the pros, but they have that leverage to say it. Still no excuse, and I'll be upset if Sneddon runs to the Free Press again selling us BS and making built in excuses for the team falling off a cliff since 09 if the kid didn't show up. I won't buy that these new players will turn it around. Not with the defensive style and awful power play Sneddon employs. Put up or shut up time. I think this year UVM met expectations they made the playoffs, but still I don't see anything that tells me anything will be different next year. A finish of 6th or worse this coming year, and I say Sneddon has to go.
Agree completely with what you said about Sneddon. This year, more than any other I think, will say a lot about him as a coach. Last year the team was pretty good at times, and this year they should be even better. If continued progress isn't reflected in the team's record, then Sneddon will be on the hot seat (particularly as his contracts comes to an end), and rightfully so.
 
Re: Vermont Hockey: Taking No Prisoners In 2012-2013

The bottom line is he needs to pull something out of thin air and have a top 6 finish. If he doesn't there is no legitimate reason to re-sign him as head coach. Not when we have seen over the last few years man of the other classic hockey east mid-pack and bottom feeders get a new coach that revitalized the program.
 
Re: Vermont Hockey: Taking No Prisoners In 2012-2013

A possible recruit rumor on USHR:

Brady Shaw, F, ’92 (Surrey-BCHL) 6-2/200 — Established goal scorers are hard to come by this time of year and that is exactly what Shaw is. Potted 33 goals in 2011-12 and another 38 this year. Is currently 2nd in the BCHL playoff scoring with an 8-11-19 scoring line in just 17 games played. Committed to Bentley earlier in the year and has since reneged on his scholarship opportunity. That said, he did sign a National Letter of Intent and is at the whim of the Falcons now. Vermont and Clarkson are two schools we have heard mentioned as possibilities.

It is interesting to me that Sneddon and company are suddenly all over western Canada these days. Seemed to me after the F4 appearance that there was a move to sign up younger recruits that mostly didn't pan out. Now seem to be going for older kids from Jr. A.. I'll guess we'll see how this works.

As for Sneddon's future after next season, I'll make a bold ;) prediction that if UMass finishes above UVM next season he's toast. It's hard not to notice that other HE programs like Mack, UML & Providence have all seen significant improvements with new blood.
 
Re: Vermont Hockey: Taking No Prisoners In 2012-2013

Another recruit committed to UVM...
USHR ‏@USHRhockey 1m
Portland (EJHL) F Haralds Egle has committed to Vermont for '14 or '15. A '96 from Latvia, Egle was selected #8 OA in Tuesday's USHL Draft.
 
Re: Vermont Hockey: Taking No Prisoners In 2012-2013

Anyone have a historical viewpoint on how to compare these new recruits?

It seems impossible to gauge via the points scored , etc in the different leagues...
BCHL is high scoring in general, but how does it comp to New England Prep scoring, or EJHL or USHL....?

The obvious answer is to just wait and see/every player is different/ yada yada....etc, etc

Just curious if anyone has made statistical comps.

-harry
 
Re: Vermont Hockey: Taking No Prisoners In 2012-2013

Good to see people are in agreement about what has to be done this year. No excuses should be the motto this year since the team is all in to mottos. Interesting thing about getting all these recruits for the year after is if Sneddon is a lame duck based on his performance how many of them will come? Can't think too much about that though the refresh button is too important if it is another bottom year. In terms of recruiting and the leagues they come from, I feel like if you're talented and in those BCHL, USHL, EJHL, and prep, you should be noticed if not that is the coaching staffs fault. I think UVM got carried away and recruited far too much from USHL and missed on evaluating lots of kids and didn't do their homework. Hope that isn't the same with the BCHL either. Im no expert on it so I dont know. Also I saw last night Ted Ryan tweeted someone who said that Dominique Ducharme coaches in the QMJHL and his team won the league title last night. I clicked on the guy he retweeted and there was an article interesting that he is coaching guys who are going to be top NHL picks http://www.sportingvermont.com/2013...standout-ducharme-guides-qmjhl-team-to-title/
 
Re: Vermont Hockey: Taking No Prisoners In 2012-2013

Also I saw last night Ted Ryan tweeted someone who said that Dominique Ducharme coaches in the QMJHL and his team won the league title last night. I clicked on the guy he retweeted and there was an article interesting that he is coaching guys who are going to be top NHL picks http://www.sportingvermont.com/2013...standout-ducharme-guides-qmjhl-team-to-title/
Not that Sneddon is gone yet, or will be gone in the near future, but I wonder if Ducharme would have any interest in coaching his alma mater. In addition to being a good coach, imagine the recruiting possibilities that could set up with kids from Quebec.
 
Re: Vermont Hockey: Taking No Prisoners In 2012-2013

Not that Sneddon is gone yet, or will be gone in the near future, but I wonder if Ducharme would have any interest in coaching his alma mater. In addition to being a good coach, imagine the recruiting possibilities that could set up with kids from Quebec.

Ohhhh, I do like the idea of that! Sneddon's run here is done as far as I'm concerned.
 
Re: Vermont Hockey: Taking No Prisoners In 2012-2013

I was hoping that St Louis would want to coach after he finishes playing but at the rate he is going I dont see
that happening very soon. He would royally trump DD in recruiting Canada
 
Re: Vermont Hockey: Taking No Prisoners In 2012-2013

Not that Sneddon is gone yet, or will be gone in the near future, but I wonder if Ducharme would have any interest in coaching his alma mater. In addition to being a good coach, imagine the recruiting possibilities that could set up with kids from Quebec.
If you look at the link to the article in the Halifax newspaper, Ducharme makes a very interesting statement that if he had to decide today between NCAA and Major Junior, he would pick MJs because they now offer educational funding packages. This is a big reason why there are not as many Quebecois going south of the border and probably wouldn't make Ducharme the best advocate for convincing kids to come to UVM. He definitely sounds like a sharp guy and has great experience, but I think there is very little chance he would uproot his family to come to Burlington. If anything, he's probably looking to go up the pro coaching chain.

Anyone have a historical viewpoint on how to compare these new recruits?
It seems impossible to gauge via the points scored , etc in the different leagues...
BCHL is high scoring in general, but how does it comp to New England Prep scoring, or EJHL or USHL....?
The obvious answer is to just wait and see/every player is different/ yada yada....etc, etc
Just curious if anyone has made statistical comps.
-harry
My take:
- USHL is the best junior league out there & is equivalent to Major Junior without pay. Teams tend to be well balanced and are a lot of good d-men & goalies, so scoring anywhere near a point a game is very good. This would be in the 40-60+ point range for forwards, 20-30+ points for d-men is good.
- BCHL is considered the best Jr. A league in Canada and is known for good forwards. The best forwards usually are close to 1.5 points per game, d-men over 0.7 point per game.
- AJHL tends to be more defensive and is known for good d-men & goalies. Forwards over 1.2 points per game usually are the top ones.
- Ontario and Quebec Jr. A are VERY offensive and the top players are usually close to 2.0 points per game.
- The EJHL is very difficult to judge, because the level of play among the teams is so uneven. Typically are 2-3 teams each season that run roughshod over everyone else and hog the scoring leader board. In general, forwards over 1.0 point per game are the good ones, but some players get inflated stats by playing on the powerhouse teams (yes, Brendan Bradley's team is one of them), while some players with lesser stats on bad/mediocre teams may actually be very good.
- New England Preps: the level of competition has really dropped as more kids that commit as 15-16 year olds are "encouraged" to play in the USHL or BCHL. Again a real disparity in the level of competition on any given night and some schools play much easier schedules than others, but in general forwards at/over 1.5 points a game are usually the good ones.

In the end you have to actually see a kid play to be able to judge their potential at the next level. Some kids get points by being bigger than everyone else, but don't have the speed or hand skills to succeed in college. Others don't have the numbers because they play a non-offensive role on their team and don't get on the PP, but have more skills than you would guess from looking at numbers.

UVM's incoming freshmen are promising IMO. Puskarich and Bradley were the leading scorers in the BCHL and EJHL respectively and look to have high skill levels. Concern with Bradley who had a knee injury in the NAHL 2 seasons ago, but he has put up good numbers at every level he's played at and has a little size. Stenerson's regular season numbers were good/not great, but he was excellent in the post-season which I always think is a good sign - like kids that can raise their game in the big moments. Forgione could also be a good addition as he had over 40 points/20 goals in the USHL and is a small fast skater with skills. Reminds me a bit of Lenes. Darrar may not be ready now but could have potential down the road, and McKinney looks like an energy guy. The d-men look interesting too, particularly Muscoby and Ryan, but really have to see them play to get the real lowdown. Not sure about Santaguida, who is small and in a league not known for goalies, but his numbers are good. Overall I'm cautiously optimistic.
 
Re: Vermont Hockey: Taking No Prisoners In 2012-2013

Great perspective!

I also think there is no substitute for the 'eye test' of seeing a kid play some games. The intangibles are what stand out to me when I watch at game speed. Things like being on the defensive side of 50/50 pucks and a kids patience level. You can tell when the game seems 'slower' for a talented kid over others.

The EJHL seems the hardest to get a handle on. I see a lot of 'local' kids on some teams and others are stacked with kids from all over.
I was talking with a player who just finished in the BCHL when out at Nationals in Pittsburgh. He echoed your sentiment of the forwards and scoring. He thought that the players were more creative than the USHL. It seems like the average age of the kids that get decent ice time are older and bigger as well in the USHL.
There seems to be a few prep kids who make splashes right away as freshman without any jr exp. They might be exceptions to the rule though.
The other leagues just dont seem to send enough kids compared to the others, I think.

Seems like we have had a Berkshire pipeline in the Preps with McCarthy, Miller, Cullity and one in 2013 and another in 2014/15.

If the offensive skill recruits live up to the numbers this is going to be a fun ride.
 
Great perspective!

I also think there is no substitute for the 'eye test' of seeing a kid play some games. The intangibles are what stand out to me when I watch at game speed. Things like being on the defensive side of 50/50 pucks and a kids patience level. You can tell when the game seems 'slower' for a talented kid over others.

The EJHL seems the hardest to get a handle on. I see a lot of 'local' kids on some teams and others are stacked with kids from all over.
I was talking with a player who just finished in the BCHL when out at Nationals in Pittsburgh. He echoed your sentiment of the forwards and scoring. He thought that the players were more creative than the USHL. It seems like the average age of the kids that get decent ice time are older and bigger as well in the USHL.
There seems to be a few prep kids who make splashes right away as freshman without any jr exp. They might be exceptions to the rule though.
The other leagues just dont seem to send enough kids compared to the others, I think.

Seems like we have had a Berkshire pipeline in the Preps with McCarthy, Miller, Cullity and one in 2013 and another in 2014/15.

If the offensive skill recruits live up to the numbers this is going to be a fun ride.

Stupid question 10 guys in plus Doerring back from injury. We graduated 5 and Greim left early, so who,else is leaving? I could see Rosenthal as he was drafted in USHL. Who else? Anyone hear?
 
Re: Vermont Hockey: Taking No Prisoners In 2012-2013

Stupid question 10 guys in plus Doerring back from injury. We graduated 5 and Greim left early, so who,else is leaving? I could see Rosenthal as he was drafted in USHL. Who else? Anyone hear?

I have not heard a word but this is typical of Kyle (Grass is Greener) Wallack so just be prepared. Eventually his recuriting tactics will catch up with him at UVM too.
 
Re: Vermont Hockey: Taking No Prisoners In 2012-2013

Stupid question 10 guys in plus Doerring back from injury. We graduated 5 and Greim left early, so who,else is leaving? I could see Rosenthal as he was drafted in USHL. Who else? Anyone hear?
Just guessing..
- Darrar & Feeley may not come until '14. Darrar could use more seasoning and why have 4 goalies when Hoffman was at least solid. Feeley has another year of Jr. eligibility and looks like a backup anyway. Other possibility is Faust is fed up and not coming back.
- Rosenthal is gone (why else would somebody draft him in the USHL), so 4 forward slots are open for Puskarich, Bradley, Forgione & McKinney.
- On D: Franzon graduates, Greim left, who knows if Doerring will really be able to play.. so 3 coming in.
 
Re: Vermont Hockey: Taking No Prisoners In 2012-2013

$22 a seat next season? C'mon man! At least give me a seat back and cup holder if you want to charge that price (and sell me a beer while you're at it).
 
Re: Vermont Hockey: Taking No Prisoners In 2012-2013

I have a schedule discrepancy where you guys are playing both Yale AND Dartmouth on January 4th. Do we yet know which one is correct?
 
Re: Vermont Hockey: Taking No Prisoners In 2012-2013

And another...
Judd Brackett ‏@Canuckscout 3m
Congratulations to Mike Lee (Gunnery) on committing to Vermont #HockeyEast #prephockey @SpikeL22
 
Re: Vermont Hockey: Taking No Prisoners In 2012-2013

Recruits are coming fast and furious.

Is there any overall hockey recruiting list to look at to tell how strong these guys are, like in hoop or basketball where they are numerically ranked and have 1-5 star rankings?

If not that is a business opportunity for someone to take that over.
 
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