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UW-Stout offseason thread

Re: UW-Stout offseason thread

joeyc3402 said:
I'll be VERY surprised if there's Stout hockey this year.
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I'm leaning in this direction as well. This is just about the worst-case scenario from a team-standpoint. Half the team is at the bar and a good chunk of them saw what happened. This is an absolute disaster.
 
Re: UW-Stout offseason thread

If the same thing happened at Middlebury don't you think they would have already cancelled the season?

To me, for some reason knowing if any of the captains were present at the bar that night would speak volumes on the program as a whole.
 
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Re: UW-Stout offseason thread

I'd also hope that if the school and Watkins have any sense...if the team proceeds through the season it will be a mandatory dry season. These guys don't need to be out at the bars.
 
Re: UW-Stout offseason thread

gojackets said:
I'd also hope that if the school and Watkins have any sense...if the team proceeds through the season it will be a mandatory dry season. These guys don't need to be out at the bars.
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Good luck enforcing that...


...with ANY group of college students
 
Re: UW-Stout offseason thread

I just don't think guys who are 21+ hanging out with a bunch of teammates in a bar is a crime. Anyone directly involved should be punished accordingly but stepping out with your teammates to have their back isn't anything objectionable. I know there is the "nothing good happens after midnight" thing going on here, but these are young college guys in their early 20's. Reality is they will hang out together in bars. They'll need some kind of zero tolerance for any other incidents this season because they'll be under the microscope but I think dumping the season is overdoing it.
 
Re: UW-Stout offseason thread

MW4Bucky&SNC said:
I just don't think guys who are 21+ hanging out with a bunch of teammates in a bar is a crime. Anyone directly involved should be punished accordingly but stepping out with your teammates to have their back isn't anything objectionable. I know there is the "nothing good happens after midnight" thing going on here, but these are young college guys in their early 20's. Reality is they will hang out together in bars. They'll need some kind of zero tolerance for any other incidents this season because they'll be under the microscope but I think dumping the season is overdoing it.
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I don't think the school will view it as "just a bunch of kids at a bar." If the team was out at the bar together and if a good number of them knew what was going down, I have a feeling that the administration will be of the opinion that any one of them could've done something to prevent the situation from getting to the point that it did.

When you're a hockey player (or any athlete, for that matter) that plays for a school, you become an extension of not only the team, but the school... like it or not.
 
Re: UW-Stout offseason thread

joeyc3402 said:
I don't think the school will view it as "just a bunch of kids at a bar." If the team was out at the bar together and if a good number of them knew what was going down, I have a feeling that the administration will be of the opinion that any one of them could've done something to prevent the situation from getting to the point that it did.

When you're a hockey player (or any athlete, for that matter) that plays for a school, you become an extension of not only the team, but the school... like it or not.[/QUOTE]

This exactly right and why student-athletes are different from other students. I also fail to see why it is so strange to hold a team accountable for the actions of one or two players. Guys get skated all of the time for the actions of one or two teammates. I really, really hope Stout plays this year, but I can't see it happening. I also think Watkins has a 50/50 chance of keeping his job.
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Re: UW-Stout offseason thread

As unfortunate as this is, the whole team should not be punished for the actions of a few who had a few to many, unless this was some premeditated event, which we all know this WAS NOT.....These kids worked hard their whole lives to get to this point and to cancel a whole season would not be fair to those who were not involved...That said best of luck for all at Stout
 
Re: UW-Stout offseason thread

Oh no. More talk of the "innocent victims" who just happened to be posted up at the front or back door of the bar.

AVFC has it right. Teams get their heads skated off in practice all the time because of the actions of one or two guys. It's called being a team, you don't simply distance yourselves from them.

Not fair to the players who worked their butts off to play at Stout, and didn't do anything but sit back and have another while teammates were getting amped up to give someone a beat down? Screw 'em. That was their chance to do something, to be a good teammate and try to calm the situation instead of escalate it. Just one of them needed to step up.

Maybe that Simon kid worked his tail off his whole life too just to attend Stout, eh?
 
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Re: UW-Stout offseason thread

bakdraft21 said:
As unfortunate as this is, the whole team should not be punished for the actions of a few who had a few to many, unless this was some premeditated event, which we all know this WAS NOT.....These kids worked hard their whole lives to get to this point and to cancel a whole season would not be fair to those who were not involved...That said best of luck for all at Stout
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Well said, and also remember, that Simon was also a Stout student, and while I suppose it possible, I think it unlikely that Stout was his only option. We all know the pride we take in our school, and we all know that stereotyping and prejudices do not serve the greater good. Extremism all too often destroys both the extremist and their victims. Having to bury a child is as bad as it gets, I have a sister and aunt who did so, and nothing will fill the void. But does instituting a penalty on innocent people help remedy a wrong? Hockey at Stout as in most (certainly not all) schools offering NCAA varsity teams has been a source of pride and identity. Drastic action is certainly called for, and anyone who participated deserves to pay appropriately. But categorizing and stereotyping an entire program and its stakeholders in no way brings justice to the situation. Can a successful season be salvaged given what has happened? If one looks only at the number of games won, the answers would be unlikely, if one looks at the ability to try their best and work on soul searching, identifying, solving and overcoming the conditions that allowed the tragedy to occur, and then success is a possibility. Simon’s family so selflessly and generously donated his tissue and organs so others may benefit, an opportunity to grow and improve not only the hockey program, but the college experience, including mature, responsible entertainment, including the bar experience, has become a mandate, executing scapegoats is not in anyone’s best interest.
 
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Re: UW-Stout offseason thread

This exactly right and why student-athletes are different from other students. I also fail to see why it is so strange to hold a team accountable for the actions of one or two players. Guys get skated all of the time for the actions of one or two teammates. I really, really hope Stout plays this year, but I can't see it happening. I also think Watkins has a 50/50 chance of keeping his job.
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A bar fight in involving some players(and subsequent arrests) at Point a few years ago played a large part into the end of Joe Baldarotta's career at UWSP.

As far as "innocent victims" go, I think those who truly had nothing to do with this would understand the justification of a canceled season. They'd be upset, but they'd know who to be upset at....

Two words: midseason transfer.
 
Re: UW-Stout offseason thread

Wormser-PointRC said:
A bar fight in involving some players(and subsequent arrests) at Point a few years ago played a large part into the end of Joe Baldarotta's career at UWSP.

As far as "innocent victims" go, I think those who truly had nothing to do with this would understand the justification of a canceled season. They'd be upset, but they'd know who to be upset at....

Two words: midseason transfer.
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Culling is certainly a quick and easy approach, whose extremism seems to some to show strength and resolve, but in actuality seldom solves the condition that caused the undesirable characteristics. Everyone at Stout and to a lesser degree, all hockey supporters and all college students in general were victimized by the senseless act, it is not just the hockey players smart enough to have avoided the situation. The administration needs to show it has the ability to identify and work toward a solution versus a reaction, and some culling may be required, but expecting culling alone to solve the problem is ignorant at best.
 
Re: UW-Stout offseason thread

The more I'm learning about this offline, the more I'm softening to the idea of making it more of a punishment beyond just kicking the two guys off and moving on with the season. I'll say no more on that for now.

Not blaming the victim because he clearly didn't deserve this fate, but why did the young man have to lip off? Nothing to be gained and quite obviously a ton to lose.
 
Re: UW-Stout offseason thread

MW4Bucky&SNC said:
The more I'm learning about this offline, the more I'm softening to the idea of making it more of a punishment beyond just kicking the two guys off and moving on with the season. I'll say no more on that for now.

Not blaming the victim because he clearly didn't deserve this fate, but why did the young man have to lip off? Nothing to be gained and quite obviously a ton to lose.
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There certainly is plenty of culpability to go around, hopefully much of it can be identified and steps taken to reduce it in the future.
 
Re: UW-Stout offseason thread

I am sure that the administration at Stout feels pressure to do something, regardless of how ineffective such gesture may be at addressing the root cause of the behavior, simply to show that it is concerned about the safety of its students. The PR nightmare facing the administration relates to student safety. If the administration sits on its hands and simply lets the justice system take over, it runs the risk of looking ineffective and aloof. Parents won’t send their kids to Stout if they perceive it as unsafe. Why do you think urban universities staff such massive campus police forces? Anyways, doing the wrong thing is not as good as doing the right thing, but it is frequently better than doing nothing, especially when you are dealing with perceptions.

I do not want to see Stout lose a season over this. I repeat, I do not want to see Stout lose a season over this. They have a really good program and are a key member of the NCHA. Furthermore, if they are gone this season, there is no guarantee that they will return the season after, especially in the world of shrinking higher education budgets at public schools. Still, I sense that there is a big disconnect between what I want to happen and what I expect to happen. The later of which doesn’t look good.
 
Re: UW-Stout offseason thread

Wormser-PointRC said:
A bar fight in involving some players(and subsequent arrests) at Point a few years ago played a large part into the end of Joe Baldarotta's career at UWSP.

As far as "innocent victims" go, I think those who truly had nothing to do with this would understand the justification of a canceled season. They'd be upset, but they'd know who to be upset at....

Two words: midseason transfer.
Click to expand...

What about the senoirs or jr's who have been there for 3/2 seasons, midseason transfer??? These kids are going to classes as well, majors and minors in many subjects,,,,,,midseason transfers I think not..Dont think a few bad appels should, you know the rest............They would NOt understand, as stated before they have put a lifetime of work into hockey ( and school ), as I did, and should not be punished for this........
 
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Re: UW-Stout offseason thread

bakdraft21 said:
What about the senoirs or jr's who have been there for 3/2 seasons, midseason transfer??? These kids are going to classes as well, majors and minors in many subjects,,,,,,midseason transfers I think not..Dont think a few bad appels should, you know the rest............They would NOt understand, as stated before they have put a lifetime of work into hockey ( and school ), as I did, and should not be punished for this........
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I guess it will could be a test of their priorities between hockey and school. It would be a darn shame for those not involved in said incident to have to choose.
 
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