USCHO Outdoors: The Fishing and Hunting Thread

[Proud2baLaker]

Almost all of the river fishing I mentioned was in the Snake River in the canyons downstream of the dam up to about Haise. The fishing we did near American falls didn't get anything, but we had some good spots way upstream of that. Man, that was a long time ago.

Since I now have 4 good rods, I'll probably not bother for a while, but who knows if the reels will last. That was my biggest thing that I would like more knowledge to- understanding what experienced anglers like in spinning reels. The only thing that makes me against a really expensive reel is dropping it in the water....

I also have a Tenkara fly rod, which is really nice when you are wading through the forest in the UP and not worrying about fouling the rod on all the freaking trees.

I fish the Lost River, South Fork Boise, Little Wood/Silver Creek, Big Wood, Salmon, and some alpine lakes for trout.

You can easily get decent reels for $25-$50 that will do the job. I've never had a need for anything more expensive than that.

 

[RaceBoarder]

Don't be alarmed, this 10 year old thread revival is real. Before starting a new one, I searched for an old about fishing.

Two showed up, and I figured to let the hunters have an outdoor thread, too. So here it is back.

So I grew up fishing, using equipment that my parents bought me or something that got handed down from me- I have a pretty cool vintage reel that I got from my grandpa.

And my style was mostly using a spinning reel with spinning lures, so cast and retrieve. Lots of time fishing rivers in Idaho and getting some fun trout. Then I went to school and fishing went away. And now that I'm retired, and we camp a lot- we go out on lakes with a 2 person kayak and I fish. My wife got me a cool telescoping rod set up that is really handy since space is light in a small kayak.... I still fish the same- using lures for cast and retrieve- using spinning lures (like a Roostertail) and crank baits (like Rapala). Catching isn't an issue.

Here's the question- what makes any equipment better? Like there are spinning reels that are in the hundreds of dollar out there- more than I've spend on the sum of everything I have. And I'm honestly trying to figure out what makes them worth the money, or even effort to get if it's a "deal" kind of reel. It's not the money, it's that I just don't know what makes things better.

On the reel, the one feature that I really understand as an improvement is sealing- especially for salt water fishing. But I only fish fresh water, so it's not a big deal. And the other feature I see bragged about is "bearing"- which as an engineer, I see as roller bearings, whereas a shaft sliding in a hole is a bushing. I just can't see where any more than 4 actual bearings would be worth the money. The only feature that I can *really* understand as an improvement is weight- since that's pretty obvious.

And for rods- I use telescoping rods, and I'm not really sure why they are not more popular to use. Let alone what you shop for getting a new rod. And it's not as if I can't feel the fish- it's not hard to feel fish bumping into the lure, to the point where I down size the lure so a small fish can bite it.

Anyway, for those of you who have lots of experience, what really makes a rod and reel better or worse for fishing? Or at least what do you think makes things better or worse. I just want to know if I ever decide to go out and get replacement stuff.

Just like any other hobby/sport, technology became more advanced. It essentially breaks down to the old engineering joke: You have three options when you make a product. It can be Light, Strong, or Cheap. Pick two of the three options.

With regard to reels, it comes down to the materials used (like Carbon Fiber or Magnesium instead of Aluminum to cut weight) and the overall build quality of the reel. As build quality goes up, tolerances get tighter.

As an engineer yourself, I'll explain the bearing situation this way... Quality trumps quantity. You can achieve better results with 5-7 quality bearings over 10-12 junk bearings. But the marketing departments convinced people in the 70s that more was better, so companies started touting larger numbers as a focus in printed materials. Shimano is the prime example of not falling into this trap. If you comare their reels across almost all price points, you'll see that they tend to be15-25% lower on overall count, but use better material & tolerances to achieve their performance.

With rods, you are dealing with different formulations of graphite. The three components you look at are weight, strength, and vibration transfer (aka "sensitivity"). With most people, they have no idea what they are missing, because they have never actually used "high end" equipment. It's a case of "You don't know what you don't know". Personally, I run $400+ rods and every time I pick up a cheaper model, they feel like a brick. You can also go down the engineering rabbit hole here if you want. You can break down how the carbon is laid out within the blank. How that layout affects how the rod loads and how the stress is distributed throughout the length of the rod is what you look at.

As to why no telescopic rods? That just comes down to functionality. Telescopic rods tend to NOT be sensitive. You need to make sure each ferrel seats properly to transfer the vibration, and doing that 4-8 times in a rod that folds into itself is extremely difficult.

 

[MichVandal]

Just like any other hobby/sport, technology became more advanced. It essentially breaks down to the old engineering joke: You have three options when you make a product. It can be Light, Strong, or Cheap. Pick two of the three options.

With regard to reels, it comes down to the materials used (like Carbon Fiber or Magnesium instead of Aluminum to cut weight) and the overall build quality of the reel. As build quality goes up, tolerances get tighter.

As an engineer yourself, I'll explain the bearing situation this way... Quality trumps quantity. You can achieve better results with 5-7 quality bearings over 10-12 junk bearings. But the marketing departments convinced people in the 70s that more was better, so companies started touting larger numbers as a focus in printed materials. Shimano is the prime example of not falling into this trap. If you comare their reels across almost all price points, you'll see that they tend to be15-25% lower on overall count, but use better material & tolerances to achieve their performance.

With rods, you are dealing with different formulations of graphite. The three components you look at are weight, strength, and vibration transfer (aka "sensitivity"). With most people, they have no idea what they are missing, because they have never actually used "high end" equipment. It's a case of "You don't know what you don't know". Personally, I run $400+ rods and every time I pick up a cheaper model, they feel like a brick. You can also go down the engineering rabbit hole here if you want. You can break down how the carbon is laid out within the blank. How that layout affects how the rod loads and how the stress is distributed throughout the length of the rod is what you look at.

As to why no telescopic rods? That just comes down to functionality. Telescopic rods tend to NOT be sensitive. You need to make sure each ferrel seats properly to transfer the vibration, and doing that 4-8 times in a rod that folds into itself is extremely difficult.

Thanks.

Some follow ups...

Are you SURE they are talking bearings and not bushings? I can't see how in the world you can actually package more than 3 real rolling bearings in that housing- one on each side of the reel handle, and one on the drive shaft between the main housing and the rotor. I just can't see how you fit an actual bearing in the rear of the housing around the main shaft. Let alone more than 4 actual bearings, since there are only two actual rotating shafts in a reel.

But I think I need to go to a shop and feel what the reels feel like when I need to get a new one. Between you and B2L, it's clear that there's a lot of feel that nobody makes YT videos about. Thank you for making me spend more time next time- which may be sooner than later, as I'm not sure of the cheap mini I have.

The rod part, I'll have to look into, too. But I really can't get a real rod, because our kayak just doesn't have space. Still, I'll feel them when I get to a real shop. I am pretty surprised what I can feel with the cheap telescoping rod I have. And am looking forward to the nicer German one I just got. I really felt a tiny 6" brown trout trying to get a lure that was too big for it's mouth, and changing to a smaller one landed it.

I do appreciate the explanation, and I will certainly spend more time in the next shop we are in.